Dollars per pound

[ryan_d_sucks 0]

So, I posted here earlier about tandem weight limits and got some pretty good responces, and thought maybe someone could definitively answer this question...

I found out that 211 pounds (my weight) is a 'safe' weight to do a tandem skydive given that I am in good physical shape. My question then is why do some dropzones charge 1 or 2 dollars per pound over 200? I don't understand-- is it to discourage people who are in bad shape from jumping? Does the extra money go into somehow reinforcing the harness? Or is it just extra money for the dropzone because they're going out of their way to deal with your heavy ass?

I mean fuck it, I'm going to pay it. I just wondered what the reason was.

[Ron 10]

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I found out that 211 pounds (my weight) is a 'safe' weight to do a tandem skydive given that I am in good physical shape. My question then is why do some dropzones charge 1 or 2 dollars per pound over 200?

Added risk to the instructor. Also, a DZ that I know did a study and it seems that most of the injuries they had were students over 200 pounds. And every accident is increased risk of being sued.

Most of the additional money...(all that I know of) goes to the instructor for taking the extra risk/effort.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mr2mk1g 10]

On a purely financial level; it costs more in gas to lift heavier weights. Put simply - a lightweight chick costs less to fly to altitude than a musically bloke does.

It might suck, but I can't see why a DZ shouldn't be able to charge more for the musically bloke than the skinny chick when the bloke costs them more than the chick does to fly.

[jtval 0]

What Ron said.

to address the OP's question of fitness.

In some sense yes, if you are a 210lb football player chances are you are fit and can help the instructor help you land safely.(getting out of the plane, lifting your legs upon landing,flaring when neccessary etc.)

if you are a 210lb 5'4" tub of cottage cheese, chances are, you will be turned away.

Bolwing balls are hard to fly if they don't do exactly what is needed

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[Reginald 0]

Yep what Ron said...risk to the instructor who gets extra compensation.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[labrys 0]

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Yep what Ron said...risk to the instructor who gets extra compensation.

I'm curious about this idea. In a tandem, isn't added risk to the instructor also added risk to the passenger? I understand that the instructor is lugging more weight to the door and landing more weight, and that the plane is burning more fuel, but the risk is equal, isn't it?

Owned by Remi #?

[jtval 0]

not really.
the instructor take the abuse on landing not the student.

(unlessthe student tries to stand up when there are no winds)

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[labrys 0]

If a 210 pound passenger increases instructor risk over a 200 pound passenger enough to motivate charging them extra money why are they accepted then?

I don't get this idea at all. Isn't a passenger safe to take or not safe to take? What's with the idea that a passenger isn't "as safe" so they have to pay extra?

Edit to add: If it's really increased risk that you're worried about, why aren't you refusing the tandem instead of charging them extra? That smells funny to me.

Owned by Remi #?

[ryan_d_sucks 0]

I agree with that.. It seems like it should be a cut and dry issue. Am I safe enough to (sensibly) go up? Yes? OK Then let's do it.

So would most of you agree it is just extra money for the instructor taking a risk on his part? Is it a bigger risk in terms of equipment malfunction to take up a 200 pound person, or is it purely a risk in student malfunction?

[kallend 2,026]

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If a 210 pound passenger increases instructor risk over a 200 pound passenger enough to motivate charging them extra money why are they accepted then?

I don't get this idea at all. Isn't a passenger safe to take or not safe to take? What's with the idea that a passenger isn't "as safe" so they have to pay extra?

Edit to add: If it's really increased risk that you're worried about, why aren't you refusing the tandem instead of charging them extra? That smells funny to me.

Safe? No skydive is safe. Some are riskier than others. Seems quite appropriate to me to charge more for a riskier jump.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ryan_d_sucks 0]

[reply

Safe? No skydive is safe. Some are riskier than others. Seems quite appropriate to me to charge more for a riskier jump.

[labrys 0]

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So would most of you agree it is just extra money for the instructor taking a risk on his part? Is it a bigger risk in terms of equipment malfunction, or is it purely a risk in student malfunction?

I don't agree. The idea that it's harder work for the instructor and more fuel for the plane makes sense. The idea that it's more risk is not okay with me. If the risk is so great then I don't understand why the skydive would happen.

Owned by Remi #?

[labrys 0]

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Safe? No skydive is safe. Some are riskier than others. Seems quite appropriate to me to charge more for a riskier jump.

That's just what I don't understand. I agree that no skydive is safe but I don't get charging students extra to put them in greater danger. There's a weight limit, right? Let's say it's 250 pounds. Tell a student or passenger that they can't skydive if they weigh more. If you think the odds are too high that anyone over 200 will cause problems why the hell are they being accepted?

Who has ever heard this at manifest?

Well... you're going to have to pay extra because your skydive is more likely to result in you or your instructor being injured or killed.

And because I just love to edit:

Where's the discount for really light passengers? Don't they decrease the risk of injury to the instructor?

Owned by Remi #?

[divnswoop 0]

Kelly, the reason we did it back home was because of the wear and tear on the Instructor. Once you start getting up in that range you can notice it and it makes the parachute ride more draining to fly.

[labrys 0]

I understand that 100% Swoop. I don't have any problem with the idea that the instructor is being paid extra for their harder work. I have issues with the idea that was presented that a student pays more because there is extra risk.

Owned by Remi #?

[divnswoop 0]

I think we are all in the same chapter, maybe not the same page! While I do see that heavier people "traditionally" have more accidents,(due to lack of abillity to control their body and the increased landing speed) I don't think thats why most dz's charge extra for them. If that was true they wouldn't give the $$ to the TI and keep it cause of additional "liability". BUT I have heard of the DZ keeping half.(% of profit) "Traditionally", small girls are more likely to get you in a side-spin. (but we don't charge extra for them, all the TI's just fight over them!!!)

[labrys 0]

I miss the hell out of you, Swoop!

Owned by Remi #?

[jtval 0]

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If a 210 pound passenger increases instructor risk over a 200 pound passenger enough to motivate charging them extra money why are they accepted then?

I don't get this idea at all. Isn't a passenger safe to take or not safe to take? What's with the idea that a passenger isn't "as safe" so they have to pay extra?

Edit to add: If it's really increased risk that you're worried about, why aren't you refusing the tandem instead of charging them extra? That smells funny to me.

I amnot an instructor. I dont know if you meant me.

there isn't a higher risk to the student. well, at least there shouldn't be. the weight rating for the tandem rig is the main concern.
the higher risk is to the instructor, my precisely their knees and butt.

IF there is no wind the tandem will slide in. if the student doesnt land properly, which happens on occasion than the instructor has to get there body under the student in order to land smoothly.


if that doesn't happen because the student is too out of shape to do there endof the deal than the instructor getsbeat up.

drags a knee on the ground, gets a foot caught under a 210 lb out of shape person, gets sat on by that person.

in a worst case scenerio (i haven't seen or even heard of it but...) if the student tries to stand up when they arent told to the instructor can be pummeled in a PFL fashion if the student is that much bigger than them.


I have seen a good number of 200-pounders
do tandems with out incident. if the student can over power the instructor there is alwayssome different concerns than taking asmall framed 150pound person.

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[Reginald 0]

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I don't get this idea at all.

Okay now really slowly...

Do you think a TI landing a 220lb person has a higher risk of injuring his (the TI's) ankle as compared to a landing a 140lb person? Yes or no?

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[jtval 0]

I just posted my last reply but I think I may have answered this.

yes the small ones are dangerous but most instructor can over power them and get their legs around the student and hold them in a good arch.

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[divnswoop 0]

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I just posted my last reply but I think I may have answered this.

yes the small ones are dangerous but most instructor can over power them and get their legs around the student and hold them in a good arch.

Got first hand experience in this?

So you break your arch to get to the little girls legs that are up on her chest????


...I love this place!

[Ron 10]

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If a 210 pound passenger increases instructor risk over a 200 pound passenger enough to motivate charging them extra money why are they accepted then?

Simple. Just jumping carries a certain amount of risk. That risk is increased, and the strain the TI experiences is higher with bigger people.

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I don't get this idea at all. Isn't a passenger safe to take or not safe to take? What's with the idea that a passenger isn't "as safe" so they have to pay extra?

Safe to take or not is not the issue...A super fatty is not going to go with me on a tandem. However, a big person who is fit is not any greater risk of catastrophic failure...But, that extra weight does pose a higher risk, say on landing of them hitting my legs. Would you rather a 10 pound weight get dropped on you, or a 100 pound weight?

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Edit to add: If it's really increased risk that you're worried about, why aren't you refusing the tandem instead of charging them extra? That smells funny to me.

Ever act as a TI? The risk is manageable but there. It is a lot more work to jump with a 240 pounder no matter how fit they are vs a 110 pound person. And safer on landing....I can just stand by my own with a 110 pounder hanging off of me. With a 240 pounder I have to be careful they don't land on me.

Like I asked....Ever been a TI?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jtval 0]

I have seen it. yes.


When a small girl goes "dead roach" the instructor has to get her legs around hers and make her arch.


true she isnt completely in a 90 degreebody position but I have seen an instructor pull high b/c there wasa small girl putt them in a spin. rather then fight it to the point of extreme danger...PULL.

after that (a line twist or two) the landing is uneventful.

of the bad landings thatI have witnessed I can tell you that mostof them wereout of shape and overweight.

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[Ron 10]

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Riskier in what sense, do you think? Riskier for the instructor to land, or riskier for equipment to hold up? I'm just curious.

Riskier for the instructor. The equipment question is cut and dry...A rig is rated to a certain suspended weight...One pound over is illegal and most places will not let that happen (and should not).

However, to fly a bigger person it many times requires the TI to be smaller to offset the weight of the passenger (Remember we can't go over a certain weight...so if the gear is rated to say 350 pounds and you weigh 220, then that leaves only 130 pounds available for the Instructor). A bigger person is harder/riskier to the TI than a smaller person.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[divnswoop 0]

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Like I asked....Ever been a TI?

No she isn't a TI....BUT she isn't on her claiming she is and handing out advice. She doesn't think the student should pay extra for extra student risk. I agree. As TI's we both know the extra work and the issues on landing. Do you believe that DZ's charge extra *only* because of the extra risk? I have taken 255 lb() AFF students too. I believe they can cause additional problems that I wouldn't give to a new aff I. I didn't get paid extra for the jump and I believe they were a little more at risk on landing than somebody that was 150 lbs. So while I agree that 250lb tandem can cause additional issues and even risk for the I....The extra charge isn't because of the additional liability to the dz of taking the student.