flyboyne 1 #26 August 1, 2006 The problem with turning in a skydiver to the FAA is that the FAA can do little to the jumper except issue a civil fine. Most likely the FAA will go after the pilot who flew the offending skydiver unless the jumper happens to hold an FAA license which includes riggers, pilots, and mechanics. And what does this really solve? Jumpers who don't hold any FAA ratings and get busted can still get on the next load without worrying about anything except a small fine, while the person who holds an FAA rating could lose their way of life. In my opinion the FAA should be left out of it if at all possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #27 August 1, 2006 If I had been the rigger implicated, I would have told the cadet "Since you violated a verbal agreement, I will never work on your gear again and I will slander you to every rigger in the neighborhood." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #28 August 1, 2006 QuoteI think that anyone who brings it up in a new thread does not hate to break it to me, but is eager to. No, really, I hate it because maybe you will be that guy that no one wants to be associated with on the DZ for obvious reasons. Quote I am happy to take everything that everyone throws my way, but it sure is easier responding in one thread and one forum. Well consider that next time you post 2 controversial threads. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydived19006 4 #29 August 1, 2006 In my opinion it defiantly depends on the situation, and intent. In your situation at WFFC I have absolutely no problem with you asking a FAA rep who you know personally to talk to the guy. There was actually no violation, therefore not even a chance of anyone getting in trouble for anything. Now there’s a situation in KC where (third hand information) a DZ sent a group of tandem students who they know had been drinking to a neighboring DZ because they (DA #1) were having aircraft issues. Then got on the phone with the FAA to report that the neighboring DZ (DA #2) was taking drunken tandem students up. That is just chicken shit on way too many levels; I don’t care what had transpired previously! If it’s true, take it for what it is. If it’s untrue, then it’s a good theoretical example of when not to call the FAA. MartinExperience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rasmack 0 #30 August 1, 2006 QuoteQuoteI think that anyone who brings it up in a new thread does not hate to break it to me, but is eager to. Sort of like how reading your story you were smiling and were very happy to skip the entire process and go straight to the FAA to get a jumper and a pilot in trouble. Dude. Noone got in trouble because nothing actually happened. Noone has been "turned in". Gary just used a figure of authority to give someone a stern talking to. To answer the original question: I would only turn someone in to our FAA equivalent if they were running a DZ in a way that put other people's lives in danger and they would not listen to reason from me or others. Any single ordinary jumper would be dealt with easier by just tapping a couple of instructors on the shoulder.HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227 “I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.” - Not quite Oscar Wilde... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #31 August 1, 2006 QuoteDude. Noone got in trouble because nothing actually happened. Noone has been "turned in". Gary just used a figure of authority to give someone a stern talking to. No one just happened to not get in trouble. Was that Gary's goal? Who knows, he can say anything he wants now. Reading his initial post it would seem like he wanted to get someone screwed. QuoteI would only turn someone in to our FAA equivalent if they were running a DZ in a way that put other people's lives in danger and they would not listen to reason from me or others. In which ways? The way they maintain their AC? The way they maintain their gear? Jumping in conditions that break the BSRs or just seem unsafe to you? Remember, getting the FAA involved often doesn't get the DZO in trouble, it gets the pilot screwed. The pilot isn't always at complete fault, its a lower time pilot that doesn't know any better and is pressured by the DZO. Which is unfortunate. If the plane is flying by getting shady signoffs by an A&P, what will grounding the AC do? The "repairs" will be done just enough to be legal, not necissarily safe. Basically, having been around the sport when someone has tried to use the FAA as a tool like has been used in the previous example and in other people's opinions, I've seen it seriously backfire. I've seen basically innocent persons that happened to be involved but not at fault get absolutely screwed. What did it accomplish? Absolutely nothing but a pissing match between two DZs and a handful of people.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #32 August 1, 2006 QuoteNow I understand all of those stories I've heard from a large number of jumpers in your region. I liv in Gary's region, and I think he could do a better job of getting around to the different DZ's he represents, but that' my only complaint. I've never heard any story worth mentioning. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #33 August 1, 2006 QuoteNow I understand all of those stories I've heard from a large number of jumpers in your region. Dave, you don't have a single story and I'm calling you on it. If you wish to, you can call me at (800 435-1975 and tell me some of those stories you think you have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #34 August 1, 2006 QuoteDave, you don't have a single story and I'm calling you on it. If you wish to, you can call me at (800 435-1975 and tell me some of those stories you think you have. Gary, Thanks for chatting with me on your 800 number, hopefully the things that I've been told and was able to retell to you (minus the jumper's names or DZs) will help you with your job in your region.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdweller 0 #35 August 1, 2006 Nothing, but then again I'm not a rat.------------------------------------------------------ "From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
460 0 #36 August 1, 2006 A question for Peek: how about a rigger you discover who actively smokes weed? Or perhaps uses even harder substances? Do you report the person and take away a potential livelihood when a significant percentage of riggers fall into the above dangerous category?Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mgattini 0 #37 August 1, 2006 I know how it is to be a pilot at a busy drop zone and did not say that I would turn a pilot in for having a drunk on the a/c. I stated that if the Pilot knew a person to be intoxicated and let him jump anyway then he should be turned in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #38 August 1, 2006 QuoteA question for Peek: how about a rigger you discover who actively smokes weed? Or perhaps uses even harder substances? Do you report the person and take away a potential livelihood when a significant percentage of riggers fall into the above dangerous category? I don't know. One of the problems would be knowing whether a person was impaired while rigging. Part of any process is finding out the truth, which is all but impossible in many cases. "significant percentage of riggers"? That should give everyone a warm and fuzzy feeling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicknitro71 0 #39 August 1, 2006 I'd let some riggers build me a whole rig when stoned and others not even pack my main while being completely sober.Memento Audere Semper 903 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdatc 0 #40 August 1, 2006 As a controller, working for the FAA, I do my best not to get pilots in trouble even when they screw up. I have a simple no harm no foul policy. I am not interested in violating someone or damaging someone's livelyhood for a minor transgression. Gross areas if miscinduct detrimental to the safety of others are different. But on the turning people in thing, how about rigger's who only pack their own reserve, but pencil whip it. Does that warrant being turned in in your eyes? I mean, they are only affecting themselves, but they too could damage the sport if they went in and it was discovered.... On that balloon load if you knew someone had done that, (pencil whipped their reserve for a year) would you have pulled them off the load, or councled them or went to the FAA? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 21 #41 August 1, 2006 QuoteNothing, but then again I'm not a rat. Should I read between the lines? Do you have your threads and forums confused? Is your answer simply "Nothing"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wwarped 0 #42 August 1, 2006 Quote Remember, getting the FAA involved often doesn't get the DZO in trouble, it gets the pilot screwed. The pilot isn't always at complete fault, its a lower time pilot that doesn't know any better and is pressured by the DZO. sure about that? I believe the April edition of Skydiving details how the FAA is going after a DZO for jumpers punching clouds. they chose NOT to go after the jumpers, and were having trouble identifying the pilot... DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #43 August 1, 2006 I think that's already been accomplished...right here! Calling the FAA is kinda like calling the cops on your own family, isn't it? Is this the way you want a brother to treat you? From my experiences so far, we seem to do quite a decent job of policing ourselves. I cannot imagine calling the FAA on anyone...almost...I've never dropped a dime on anyone...karma comes back you know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yourmomma 0 #44 August 1, 2006 I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the FAA is anything but your friend. You will find that out the hard way if they ever feel the need to investigate your work and you see how the guy you have a “relationship “ with will not give you a fair shake much less the benefit of the doubt. It is their job to find fault and culpability in ANY infraction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #45 August 1, 2006 Quotesure about that? I believe the April edition of Skydiving details how the FAA is going after a DZO for jumpers punching clouds. they chose NOT to go after the jumpers, and were having trouble identifying the pilot... Yup, I'm very sure about that. Look at my post, I stated that the FAA often doesn't get the DZO in trouble. So far the incident you're talking about is literally 1 out of 25 that I've seen and/or read about in recent times.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #46 August 2, 2006 I can think of a few things. This whole Rat thing is Bullshit. Let me say this if your risking peoples lifes and refuse to stop and I know it and refuse to do everything in my power to to stop it then I am as culpuable if someone dies or is seriously injured. This whole "we are family" thing ends when "you" risk someone else's life. Sure there is tons of petty shit that goes on but this whole teenage "blood in blood out" family bullshit is just that bullshit. Grow up. You fuck up and refuse to clean up then you get fucked up... It isn't rock science. Don't start no shit won't be no shit MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
patrickweldon 0 #47 August 2, 2006 Has anyone else noticed the correlation between the low number of years in the sport by the poster, and the general lack of respect, manners, and common sense ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 798 #48 August 2, 2006 again the Fonz is cool... Yahtzee! and you still shouldn't go to the FAA! USPA is for skydiving you silly rabbits! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #49 August 2, 2006 QuoteHas anyone else noticed the correlation between the low number of years in the sport by the poster, and the general lack of respect, manners, and common sense ? You talking to me? The verbage I used was in response to the silly childhood "your a RAT" BS. I chose to use words and phrases their minds would understand. As for common sense..Please explain. I would hope common sense would tell you that if someone was putting someone else's life in jeopardy and you know it, it is your responsibillity to do everything in your power to stop it. Don't believe me ask the guy sitting in Jail for the rest of his life that knew his buddies where going to blow up the trade center. He is guilty because he did nothing to stop it. So please explain m,y lack of respect, Manners well I will give you that one, kinda as the manners I displayed where once again aimed at the school yard ideology, comman sense come on... MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #50 August 2, 2006 So you would turn a blind eye on it and "earn respect"? Really, really, REALLY sorry to hear that from you. You just lost some, really. Can you be trusted to help keep us safe? Not really. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
