What altitude do you remove your seatbelt?

[Ron 10]

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Remember, Cypres doesn't ARM until 1500' AGL, which I'm sure you know, just posting it incase someone does know that happens across this thread...

I did not know until he died. It was his death that got me to look at why his CYPRES didnt fire...It was in the manual, but back then (1993) almost nobody knew that.

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Also, a good discussion about panic

It is the single biggest factor that almost no one thinks about. Unless your actions have been decided on and TRAINED before hand, there is very little chance anyone will remember them and perform them in a high stress situation.

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Also true, there's probably a lot of newer jumpers out there that haven't gotten out low... I'd venture to guess there are more then a handfull of jumpers with hundres of jumps that have never gotten out lower then tweleve-five. Personally, I've gotten out above 2, but below 3... closer to 3 then 2... on my main, and would again; may not like it, but would.

I have gotten out below 2 on my main before...But that was with a Startrac I, not my Stiletto. I would leave at 2 on my main with very little worry. Below that, or depending on WHERE I am I will go out on my reserve.

Example. Over an open field at 2 grand-Main. Over trees (Or I don't know)-Reserve

But I see folks that will not get out at 2.5-3 grand talk about how they will react in an emergency....Well I have seen people freak out and not be as cool as they think they will be.

I urge EVERYONE to do some low exit training. It is a life saving skill. And a good opportunity to practice spotting, another live saving skill often over looked.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[MakeItHappen 15]

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You just take your sweet time moving to the floor off the aft end of the left bench. You just take your sweet time opening the door. If you do it right, you'll be 1000 ft AGL by the time you open the door.

That no doubt works for YOU, but how many of the rest of the jumpers on that load (probably) already have THEIR seatbelts off/REMOVED anyway, WHILE you are doing this?

Don't know.
Maybe they might start paying more attention to the more experienced jumpers.


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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[Scrumpot 1]

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Maybe they might start paying more attention to the more experienced jumpers.

Wishful thinking I suppose. Not quite so sure how actually effective though.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[crazyboy 0]

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ypres doesn't ARM until 1500' AGL, which I'm sure you know, just posting it incase someone does know that happens across this thread... not sure about Vigil or Astra

After passing 150ft (below or above ground level) VIGIL changes to active status after max 32 seconds (the recalibration cycle is 32s).
http://www.vigil.aero/faq.php

For ASTRA it are 1700ft until it changes to active status
http://www.pia.com/fxc/astrindx.htm#calibration

If your parachute fails to open, remember you have the rest of your live to fix it.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

It can be, but it would take TIME. You wouldn't accomplish it in a load or two, but if most all of the experienced jumpers walked in and sang a bar of Alice's Resturant... ... I mean, if all of the experienced jumpers started sitting put until say 1.5K or 2K and then removed their belts, arguements along the way aside, it would catch on.

For instance, remember up-post I said the when we used to jump at AV the DZ policy was belts on until 2K AGL? Well, that started out a little rough, but the up-jumpers got on board with it and pretty soon everyone did. New jumpers and students that came up under that policy knew it from the begining and followed the example of the up-jumpers.

Another thought... when I got into jumping back in 93, here in SoCal (Cal City, the Bob & Judy era), the Perris Crash wasn't as "long ago" as it is now. I can recall getting on the plane as a student and shortly there after as a low low timer and, generally speaking, the attitude of the exprienced folks was "everyone get there seat belts on!... helmets strapped down if not worn... where's my seat belt, I need a seat belt"... in the past few years, myself included , is that on the odd takeoff when the plane is full and you have to share a belt at the end of the bench, ah, I'll skip it (again, gonna fix that) or just to hook the belt around oneself and not really tighten it down... bad habbit to let oneself and others around you develop. In short, I've seen a bit of a "creep" away from taking seatbelts in jump planes "seriously" now that the Perris Crash is getting (someone help me here, the incident pre-dates me in the sport) by what, 15 years?

Also, this discussion makes me think of "how good an idea is it" the seat belt config I've seen in some PAC750s... where you're straddling a bench down the sides of the aircraft, sitting nut to butt (or bush to butt, as applicable ), "tabogin style", with a short belt that's just looped through the leg strap or main lift web on one side of you; not across your lap & through your harness... hmmm???

[shermanator 4]

seatbelts come off at 1k where i jump. as for my helmet, i generally hook it to my cheststrap, but will most likely be reconsidering that approach the next time i am out at the dz.

for myself, after 1k, i am looking out at the terrain, thinking about the 'what if' and look at my reserv ripcord and dtell myself, if have to bail, pull that one now. then when get about 2.5k, do a ep practice.. feel main, cutaway, then reserve. works for me. ... why use reserve to about 2.5ish.. I will be jumping a safire2, which has a long swivel... I don't want to be riding my swivel down, so until i pack better, and shorten that swivel, i'd rather be safer than realize it aint opening too late.

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[Auram 0]

I jump at Skydive Chicago

Seatbelts usually start coming off at 1k or just above, door opens around there or just after. Helmets are generally on during takeoff with only a few that I've seen in my limited number of jumps that don't put them on. Others generally say something to the non-helmet wearers though and they are secured or most often put on.

Side-question:

Pilot at 1200' says "emergency, everyone out!". If you are jumping a Twin Otter with full load (23 or 24 people I think), what would the procedure be after exit? You wouldn't have much time to do anything other than pull right out the door right? Wouldn't that be pretty dangerous too?

[Ron 10]

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Pilot at 1200' says "emergency, everyone out!". If you are jumping a Twin Otter with full load (23 or 24 people I think), what would the procedure be after exit? You wouldn't have much time to do anything other than pull right out the door right? Wouldn't that be pretty dangerous too?

Pulling out the door is not dangerous...Just don't PRE-PULL. If you get out the door and pull the reserve your PC will launch, but you will have cleared the plane.

Best thing is to talk with your instructors and have them give you a little class on emergency exits...And then do a hop n pop from say 5 grand and start working on them.

It is a life saving skill...It is worth the practice it takes to learn it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,990]

>Pilot at 1200' says "emergency, everyone out!". If you are jumping a
>Twin Otter with full load (23 or 24 people I think), what would the
> procedure be after exit?

For newer jumpers - exit, count "one thousand" pull the reserve. (Mainly to prevent deploying before your feet leave the door.)

For experienced jumpers - exit stable (either poised or dive) and deploy your reserve the instant your feet leave the floor. Poised is a bit better from an avoidance and navigation perspective, but both work as long as you can exit stable.

Note on deploying in the plane - we had one jumper who, when exiting low, would count like this:

1 swing out
2 swing in, throw PC onto back seat
3 swing out and exit

We told him he did it; he didn't believe us. We finally got video and he said "holy shit! I was POSITIVE I waited until I exited!"

So make sure your feet actually leave the airplane before pulling.

[Scrumpot 1]

Bill, shouldn't this thread be moved to Safety and Training? It is getting LOST in "General Discussions".

Good stuff, and good thread for S&T if you ask me, even though is was already once "spun out" of an incidents thread.

Just a thought.
Blues,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone