Help with AFF level 3 - release dive

[matthias 0]

Last weekend I attempted L3 and will have to repeat, as the mainside instructor had to reattach after letting me go for 8-10 seconds. Everything seemed to go well..as opposed to my previous exits, we did not flip over this time (kinda took the fun outta it). COA's and PRCP's good, pulled stable at 5500, landed the canopy right next to the JM with minimal radio assistance.

From my point of view, I don't recall going TOO unstable. I do recall the reserve-side releasing and staying released, as I could see him better from checking the altimeter every 3-5 seconds. During debriefing, the mainside JM informed me of having to re-grip shortly after. The comments in the logbook mainly state to relax and be legs aware. My memory isn't too good about the freefall (damn sensory overload) and I couldn't tell ya what hand singles I got or not

I was wondering if you all had any accounts of when you did the release dive, and what mental drills my have helped you out after both JMs release. Any advice is appreciated as I can only afford one jump per week. I feel a windtunnel would be the most beneficial, I am unaware of any in Texas however. Thanks :)

_________________________________________
trance/house mixes for download:
www.djmattm.com

[MF42 0]

You just about perfectly described my first attempt at AFF3. (Except for the landing out part.) The instructors said to be legs aware, and that's what I finally figured out on the second attempt. Passed.

Matt

[StreetScooby 5]

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The comments in the logbook mainly state to relax and be legs aware.

You didn't say whether you passed or not.

You shouldn't have to be "perfect" to pass. If they were able to regrip, you weren't doing bad. Not sure how to know if you're getting taken with unneeded jumps here.

Re: leg awareness, starting kicking hacky sack. When I was coming up in the sport, we all did that to increase leg awareness.

Oh, and DON'T think legs. Think POINT TOES.

We are all engines of karma

[bodypilot1 0]

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Last weekend I attempted L3 and will have to repeat,
From my point of view, I don't recall going TOO unstable.

Which is exactly why I include video on every one of my student jumps.
Get it next tme and you'll have no questions as to why.....


Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[matthias 0]

You didn't say whether you passed or not.

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attempted L3 and will have to repeat

heh

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You shouldn't have to be "perfect" to pass. If they were able to regrip, you weren't doing bad. Not sure how to know if you're getting taken with unneeded jumps here.

To my understanding, and I should have thought to include this in the original post.. apparently I was rocking a bit, having trouble keeping a dead-on heading. While I wasn't out of control...I am guessing from Elio's point of view I need to work some things out before being passed to L4. If I had video taken I would have a very clear understanding of where I went wrong or what exactly my legs were doing.

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and DON'T think legs. Think POINT TOES.

I've heard about thing and something regarding clicking the heels..though I'm unclear on the latter. Thanks for the words so far.

_________________________________________
trance/house mixes for download:
www.djmattm.com

[StreetScooby 5]

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Which is exactly why I include video on every one of my student jumps.
Get it next tme and you'll have no questions as to why.....

Yep.

I'm not convinced there's unneeded dives being charged here. But, then again, I'm not trying to make a living with AFF/IFF.

We are all engines of karma

[MF42 0]

About the legs...
Keep in mind that I have exactly one more jump than you do and am therefore equally as clueless about things skydiving related, but...
My problem was I kept curling up both legs behind me, so my feet were above my butt. This happened because when I practice my arch, lying on the floor, I'm exerting force to pull the legs up off the floor. But in freefall, I got my legs into the correct position not by pulling, but by pushing my shins against the relative wind. That's what "clicked" for me anyway. Seems so simple that I should've realized it earlier instead of having to repeat an expensive jump, but oh well.

Matt

[tdog 0]

How was your heading? That (in most AFF programs) is a TLO for level 3 - and should indicate how much your instructors were working...

If you don't remember what your heading was, or it changed a lot - then perhaps that was an issue???

What hand signals were given in freefall?

These are all clues...

However, you should trust your instructors and do what they say - or find new instructors, because thus far they are the only ones that know what you did on your jump - other than what you remember.

[StreetScooby 5]

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But in freefall, I got my legs into the correct position not by pulling, but by pushing my shins against the relative wind.

Exactly.

When do you stop pushing?

Point your toes. Has the same effect, and it's the best way to fall straight down with a stable arch.

We are all engines of karma

[matthias 0]

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Which is exactly why I include video on every one of my student jumps.
Get it next tme and you'll have no questions as to why.....

Yep.

I'm not convinced there's unneeded dives being charged here. But, then again, I'm not trying to make a living with AFF/IFF.

I just wanted to make clear that I believe the the AFF-I had a sincere reason for having me repeat the level, and I have no problem with that since its in my best interest to get it right before moving on.

I had video shot of my level 2 and I agree it did help put alot of things in perspective. As far as getting video last weekend, all of the videographers I knew at skydive houston were at Skyfest. The few that were present were shooting video for the tandems.

I have, however, seen a few online student videos shot by the JMs...though I'd have to check if the ones at sdh do that.

_________________________________________
trance/house mixes for download:
www.djmattm.com

[Shark 0]

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Last weekend I attempted L3 and will have to repeat,
From my point of view, I don't recall going TOO unstable.

Which is exactly why I include video on every one of my student jumps.
Get it next tme and you'll have no questions as to why.....


Be safe
Ed

Yeah, you should see my first level 3, and my second.

[matthias 0]

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How was your heading? That (in most AFF programs) is a TLO for level 3 - and should indicate how much your instructors were working....

If you don't remember what your heading was, or it changed a lot - then perhaps that was an issue???

I recall the reserve-side releasing, heading was stable. I don't recall precisely when the mainside released or reattached, but I do recall minor left/right turns. From what I'm led to believe, the legs had alot to do with the erratic turns.

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What hand signals were given in freefall?

This is going to sound bad...but out of the 4 AFF jumps I have made so far, I don't recall any of the hand signals I got besides the thumbs up on the altitude awareness checks. I would assume I probably got the relax one the most. I have a tendency to tense up, which probably was an issue as well.

_________________________________________
trance/house mixes for download:
www.djmattm.com

[bodypilot1 0]

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Yeah, you should see my first level 3, and my second.

Spinner comes to mind.....

But look at you now.


Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Shark 0]

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Yeah, you should see my first level 3, and my second.

Spinner comes to mind.....

But look at you now.


Be safe
Ed

You still got that full face helmet?

[Feeblemind 1]

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Quote

Yeah, you should see my first level 3, and my second.

Spinner comes to mind.....

I resemble that remark

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[Reginald 0]

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You shouldn't have to be "perfect" to pass. If they were able to regrip, you weren't doing bad. Not sure how to know if you're getting taken with unneeded jumps here.

and...

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I'm not convinced there's unneeded dives being charged here. But, then again, I'm not trying to make a living with AFF/IFF.

So you jump to the conclusion that the AFFI’s are intentionally failing students to make a quick buck! WTF? There is absolutely NO WAY you would have any clue whatsoever as to what went on during that jump! No, a person does not have to be “perfect” but that are key performance objectives that must be met on AFF jumps. What makes you think it is more likely that 2 AFFI’s intentionally failed a student to scam a buck out of him than a student with a couple of jumps has to repeat a level (and one of the more challenging ones at that) because he didn’t meet the performance objectives?

I’m continually impressed with the integrity of instructors, and good thing given the job. Combine that with the fact that the DZ that is listed on his profile is a reputable one and that fact that all you know is the student had to repeat a level and I’d say you owe and apology to the instructors and the DZ for your ridicules, baseless, allegations.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[riggerrob 643]

I don't recall any of the hand signals I got besides the thumbs up on the altitude awareness checks. I would assume I probably got the relax one the most.

This my biggest source of frustration - when doing early release dives. Students get so tense/tunnel vision/sensory overload, that they cannot recognize hand signals, ergo half my advice - in the airplane - relates to relaxing, breathing and looking around.

[Sky15 0]

I'm an AFFI and will share my 2 cents, but your instructors are who you need to listen to right now.

I have seen plenty of students be in a fairly good body position, but if they are tense, the rocking can still happen. RELAXING is SO important. Yes you have to arch, yes you need some positive leg pressure (point toes always, try to become aware of feeling some wind on your lower legs in freefall), but otherwise you do need to relax, it will do wonders for you.

I agree video is wonderful for some people to see exactly what they are doing, but it isn't necessary and does cost money, so that is your call on if you can afford it.

Also, realize going from Level 3 to 4 is probably one of the most common times for students to repeat a level. For safety reasons, going to only 1 JM and going into manuvers..we would often hold a marginal student on Level 3 if needed. You want to have some good solo freefall time in good control on that Level 3 before you move on to turns, etc. on Level 4. So don't be frustrated. Sounds like you are very close and did some good things on your jump. just need to relax, work on the legs a bit and you will be there!

Good luck on the next one!

ETA: On the next jump be sure you are being very verbal about EVERYTHING. In freefall if you get a signal you might say that command out loud. And always get the thumps up/ok so you know you did it right. Definitely say your altitiude out loud every time. Verbalization does wonders for awareness during the sensory overload in freefall and for remembering things after the jump.

[DougH 270]

This was mentioned before... but this helped me so much that I will mention it again.

I had to do my level 2 three times before my brain connected to my legs the way I needed to.

I was pulling my legs in above my ass and was flying like crap because of it. The next time I practiced my arch in the debriefing room my instructor stuck his hands under my feet and shins and told me to push against them.

"here feel that pressure, feel that on your legs when you flying"

After that I have been flying great and passing all my levels. I have to do my Level 7 and then my hop and pop and then I can start getting real serious about getting my A license!!

Talk to your instructor, I might as well be a whuffo as far as experience goes, but I just wanted to share what broke me out my leg rut.

You will get it. I know repeating levels is expensive, but at least you are still in the air!!!

Cheers,
DougH

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[bmcd308 0]

Most people are good with their upper body, since your arms determine what your upper body is doing, and they are out in from of you where you can see them. Only soccer players are really aware of what their legs are doing. Next time, make a real effort to think about what your legs are doing. Oh, and relax. Relax a lot. It should tell you something that unconscious people tend to fall stable.

Brent

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www.jumpelvis.com

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Hey,

Just a bit of input from a recent grad. I went through through PFF pretty quickly. I did repeat level one, for other reasons. (Had something to do with sensory overload and me not pulling), but anyways, Every PFF jump up to jump 4 made mention of my legs. It's just something that comes with time. You realize how much your legs play in to your stability. I found this out on my last jump. I bought a jumpsuit with booties around jump 10 and have been using it since. I have unbelievable control with the booties. My last jump it was really warm out and I decided to not wear the jumpsuit. did a backflip off the C-205 step and found out quickly that I barely have control without my jumpsuit. I did alot of tumbling on that jump. Good learning experience though.

My best advice, just before you exit the door after going through your jump in your head, get out on the step, or door, and when you do your exit count, do ready, Set, LEGS! I used this and it worked great for me. It just gets you thinking about your legs, that's all you have to do. I promise it will come in time as you become more aware of your surroundings as you get more and more jumps.

Welcome to Skydiving, be safe and have a blast!

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."