Re: [kflying] 207 down in Vegas

[leesamsiel 0]

Quote

.......it's not - it's 360 degrees.

Huh?? I am not sure I understand what you are saying. What pilot would think he can make the departure runway under power-out emergency conditions?

If you want to land in the same direction you took off, you are right.....it is a 360 degree turn. I was assuming the pilot would realize, in an emergency, he would have to land in the opposite direction of the T/O direction. There is no time to fly closed traffic and go all the way around. Yes.....this is going to be a down-wind landing, but if the winds are not too high, that should make little difference --- it is not a conventional landing, it is an emergency.

Several years ago one of my friends was taking his FAA checkoff ride for his private pilot's license and, while on climbout, the examiner pulled power at ~800' AGL and said, "You just had a full power out, what are you going to do?" The airport had 2 runways: 31/13 and 26/8. He just departed 31. Winds were 320/5. He made a quick call to ATC, was given clearance for an emergency landing, turned ~190 degrees to the left, and made a dead stick "greaser" on #8. The examiner said, "Very impressive." He passed.

I might add, pilots and their instructors have been killed practicing this maneuver during climbout. It can however be practiced safely starting at 2,600' - 2,800' AGL after appropriate clearing turns --- you just have to "pretend" that 2,000' AGL is ground level.

LS

[mark 107]

Quote

Quote

.......it's not - it's 360 degrees.

Huh?

I think what he means is that unless there is a crosswind, the turn is a left 270 then a right 90 (or vice versa).

Mark

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

Quote

Quote

.......it's not - it's 360 degrees.

Huh?

I think what he means is that unless there is a crosswind, the turn is a left 270 then a right 90 (or vice versa).

Mark

It would be 270 degrees and can be done a couple of ways.

See attachments.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[billvon 2,991]

>If you want to land in the same direction you took off,
>you are right.....it is a 360 degree turn.

And if you take off on runway 7L at LAX, have an engine failure, and turn to land on 6R (really 24L from the pilot's point of view) it might only be a 180 turn, since the runways are offset by half a mile. But ordinarily you have to make a teardrop turn to realign yourself with the runway, which involves more than 180 degrees of turning.

[Scrumpot 1]

Quote

the examiner pulled power at ~800' AGL and said, "You just had a full power out, what are you going to do?"

1. Punch the CFI's F'ing lights straight out.
2. Re-power the A/C back up.
3. Land the A/C safely at my convenience.



Blues,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

>If you want to land in the same direction you took off,
>you are right.....it is a 360 degree turn.

And if you take off on runway 7L at LAX, have an engine failure, and turn to land on 6R (really 24L from the pilot's point of view) it might only be a 180 turn, since the runways are offset by half a mile. But ordinarily you have to make a teardrop turn to realign yourself with the runway, which involves more than 180 degrees of turning.

Bill, I have already posted 2 versions of a “teardrop” turn. They are call “procedure turns”.

How many Cessna GA aircraft takeoff from LAX?

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[leesamsiel 0]

Quote

Quote

the examiner pulled power at ~800' AGL and said, "You just had a full power out, what are you going to do?"

1. Punch the CFI's F'ing lights straight out.
2. Re-power the A/C back up.
3. Land the A/C safely at my convenience.



Blues,
-Grant

Yep, I agree. I guess there are FAA eximiners that are complete a**holes just like other people in the general population.

LS

[diverdriver 5]

Quote

Quote

the examiner pulled power at ~800' AGL and said, "You just had a full power out, what are you going to do?"

1. Punch the CFI's F'ing lights straight out.
2. Re-power the A/C back up.
3. Land the A/C safely at my convenience.



Blues,
-Grant

Well, what you don't know is that this type of training happens every day. The instructor/examiner will actually retard the throttle (pull it to idle). They DON'T actually turn off the engine. By putting the trottle back in the engine usually powers up right away.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[billvon 2,991]

>1. Punch the CFI's F'ing lights straight out.
>2. Re-power the A/C back up.
>3. Land the A/C safely at my convenience.

Well, that's an option, one that would result in your never becoming a pilot (and possible legal action.) I would think that demonstrating the required skill would be an easier way to deal with the issue.

My second flight instructor was a guy named Mark who was a little unconventional. He'd pull power anywhere, at any time, and have me land. I acctually put the wheels on a beach, a parking lot, and a sod farm while I was flying with him. (Most CFI's give you power back at 500 feet or so.) Did my first inside loop with him, too. And it might have been unconventional, but I learned how to land anywhere if I had to - and I knew I could do it.

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

Did my first inside loop with him,

And what type of trainer was you flying that were certified for aerobatic flight.

Quote

I acctually put the wheels on a beach, a parking lot, and a sod farm while I was flying with him.

All of which could get his lic. pulled and yours put in question. That’s not "unconventional" it would seem to be bad judgment.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[leesamsiel 0]

Quote

My second flight instructor was a guy named Mark who was a little unconventional. He'd pull power anywhere, at any time, and have me land. I acctually put the wheels on a beach, a parking lot, and a sod farm while I was flying with him. (Most CFI's give you power back at 500 feet or so.)

IMHO it's a little unreasonable to make a simulated emergency landing in a parking lot or sod farm just for practice. I would question the judgement of a CFI or CFII who would encourage/allow that -- however I am not a CFI, so what would I know.

LS

[diverdriver 5]

Cessna 150 Aerobat? I used to fy one and instruct in it.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[billvon 2,991]

>And what type of trainer was you flying that were certified for aerobatic flight.

Cessna 150. Same frame as the Aerobat but without the releaseable doors.

> That’s not "unconventional" it would seem to be bad judgment.

Perhaps, but I didn't know any better and I'm glad I did it. It's the difference between talking about landing off-field and doing a few demos.

[mark 107]

Quote

>And what type of trainer was you flying that were certified for aerobatic flight.

Cessna 150. Same frame as the Aerobat but without the releaseable doors.

There are some structural differences to the load-bearing parts of the airframe between the standard 150 and the Aerobat. An Aerobat is not just a 150 with doors that can be jettisoned.

Mark

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

Cessna 150. Same frame as the Aerobat but without the releaseable doors.

Large difference between a Cessna 150 and a 150 Aerobat. I would think you would know that.

Quote

Perhaps, but I didn't know any better and I'm glad I did it.

But you instructor sure as hell did.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[billvon 2,991]

>But you instructor sure as hell did.

Probably. He gave up flying after that to go into women's underwear (the family business) so I don't think he much cared.

[Ron 10]

Quote

>But you instructor sure as hell did.

Probably. He gave up flying after that to go into women's underwear (the family business) so I don't think he much cared.

I fail to see why being a cross-dresser means he had to quit flying.........?

Oh and I had the FAA guy pull my power on take off...I pushed it right back in. He asked my why I did that and I told him that the first thing I am going to check is the throttle and push it back in. He laughed, then pulled it out and held it out.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

Oh and I had the FAA guy pull my power on take off...I pushed it right back in. He asked my why I did that and I told him that the first thing I am going to check is the throttle and push it back in. He laughed, then pulled it out and held it out.

Always the smart ass, but always thinking. A good way to stay alive my friend.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals