how do i get my aff-training recommendations and advice!!

[timmybuddhadude 0]

Hi! I need some advice, obviously I have just/ only done static lines and tandems, I need now * to progress to aff and through to commercial cameraman/ professional angles.. sport jumping/filming on head. This is my aim
I see by looking at this website, that plenty of you are sports jumpers and seEm to do the video work for your OWN use, as well as just* for independant dropzones... ie you know what I mean, being a pro cameraman under a dropzone 'wage packet'.
So can you give me advice?? ..Those more advanced '' than me
a) are all skydive cameramen freelance? i presume the answer is yes>?? ie find your own jobs, contact the jobcentre..join their economy and marketing. WHere/ (if any!) are jobs advertised??? all over? is there a 'jump job' website?????.. like Scuba, there is...
b) okay THERE ARE TWO COMMERCIAL SKYDIVE TRAINING VENTRES IN THE WORLD .. that I spy, AUkland and Christchurch . ..A BIG QUESTIOn
FOR WHOEVER BROWSING THIS, PLEASE ANSWER!!..
For someone such as myself (just above experience...... help me, do you think I should take up a 200 sport jump(through aff) training programme, etc.
Or do you think that after 100 jumps or even 30 in that 'time' I will be tired out, have the 'buzz' out of my system, and just want to do it as a sport job/ occasional freelance/ not full time, etc
Say something* about this, please.. ie when you have gone through the aff, etc 20-30 , IS THAT A GOOD TIME* to sit down and relax and go 'wow'.. is that what you 'pro's did'?
is from where i am ..jumping through to 200 jumps £4000/$8500 course too much to handle, or do you think that I should (which I am rapidly thinking, now that I have the funding!) that i should do the aff, feel/be satisfied with that... and give up on the rest for occasional growth etc
Do people do/be on these programmes from 'scratch' ie tandems/ statics like me, or is it advised to do the 'aff' from where i can re-evaluate? and continue with my rafting/ other ventures/ work
let me know
thanks, any advice would be good a)aff as 1st step 2) whole training package 1st/next step!
HELP! (that is not the sound of an unsafe 'chute' that is the sound of NEEDING ADVICE BADLY! from all you better and bigger,bolder and wiser than me, BEFORE I EMBARK ON THE WHOLE HOG MISSION!
talk to me about how you feel about it/ that/those stages
thanks ( I have my own 'shute' now too. 1st one)

also costs for cheapest worldy recognized aff.. brazil vrs fiji vrs columbia (like scuba 60dive training is well cheap!)..or is that not the way* to look at it.. should i be 'looking at' the skies and scenes instead>? colour /mountains?

timmybuddhadude

[mr2mk1g 10]

1. PUT THE CAFFEINE DOWN!

2. Where are you? NZ?

To answer two of the questions I can work out from your... lets call it an "excited" post:

a) most cameramen would probably be classified as freelance.. I guess.

b) There are literally hundreds of commercial skydiving training facilities all across the world. You I think are listing the two in NZ which offer university degree courses. Most are just clubs where you pay your money and get your qualifications.

Lets see if we can help further - try to distill down your questions to succinct one liners so we know exactly what info you're after.

[timmybuddhadude 0]

hi, thanks that was quick, bro!
I need my aff i am in uk now, everyone i know trained in uk
I basically now have funding for the nz course.. I am determined to get good at it. budget wise/ the auk and chch courses seem cheap , I need to get good at it and put a camera on my head (like you it seems 340!), but I don't know whether to take the full plunge into auklands £4000 course, then pay back the bank (with interest!) with that money
uk prices are horrendous, and in kiwiland /aus it cheaper
IS THAT 1 question???? NO! I can't think of 1!!!!

[timmybuddhadude 0]

sorry i mean everyone i KNOW TRAINED In NZ !!(probably because i met the course'' people there/ that was the 'circulation'), but most friends'' did aff there/aus too (finances i guess)

[mr2mk1g 10]

NZ is a great place to learn. Prices are good there as you note.

You mention my jump number. Just to put that into perspective I do not do paid camera work. I do not consider myself experienced enough. Take note of that! I have 140 jumps more than is required by the regs but I do not jump camera for money - I do it for fun and for my own use.

You could spend all your time during your 200 jumps concentrating on belly skills and then be just about good enough to fly camera professionally. I do know a guy who is doing this. He started doing pro camera just after getting his 200th jump. He only managed this though because he has a tandem master as a friend who let him.

This however has caused something of a stir among other camera flyers. The do not consider him to be experienced or safe enough. I even know one who left the DZ in part because of this as he considered it to be unsafe.

I tell you this in an attempt to illustrate the fact that even if you go off to NZ, do 200 jumps and get camera training on one of these courses don't expect to come back to the UK and instantly be doing paid camera work. The same goes for the States to a good degree.

Many places just won't consider you experienced enough. Remember 200 jumps is the minimum to be legal with a camera on your head - it does not mean that by that many jumps you'll actually be good enough.

That said, it can be done – especially in NZ. From what I hear they have a huge tandem industry and are crying out for camera guys and you’d probably slot right in straight off the course.

NZ is probably the only place where I hear full time camera guys are actually making a good living (although I could put money on someone now saying they make good money in X country or that they live in NZ and find it hard to make ends meet) - basically your mileage will vary.

Because camera flyers are freelance if the weathers bad and no one jumps you don't make money. If business is slow you make no money. If your camera breaks (yes you have to buy and maintain your own cameras) you make no money. If your rig breaks or your loose your main (again – you have to buy and maintain your own kit) you make no money.

If you're not making more money than it costs you to live then you aint gonna be paying the bank back.

The number of people who get into this sport to make money is tiny. Most get into it because they want to skydive.

[timmybuddhadude 0]

iS uNIVERSITY'' OF COMMERCIAL JUMPING vrs DOING aff SOMEWHERE/ PieCE by piece/COST OF GETTING TRAINING SPORTS- WISE from pro sports-trainers iNdependantly /individually over time/etc to build up to good pro standard...
these courses provide sports jumping coaching ...(ie nz too).. HOW WILL I GET THAT* after aff if i pay 10.00£ uk etc 20.00£ for each individual jump (aircraft/ fuel costs etc), isnt that a trip, are people willing to 'teach me' hold my hands in the air (sounds doo-lallie) if just jumping individually? (not on comm.skydive programme)...
I SEE NO REFERENCE to coach jumps, jumping independantly after aff 30 jumps. DOes that make sense? I SEE NO REFERENCE TO SPORTS COACHING AFTER I MAKE IT THROUGH MY AFF, UNLESS I DO THE 2/ one of programmes
timmybuddhadude
I SEE NO REFERENCE TO SPORTS COACHING I SEE NO REFERENCE TO SPORTS COACHING I SEE NO REFERENCE TO SPORTS COACHING

[mr2mk1g 10]

Didn't we talk about how you were going to put the caffeine down if I was going to try and help you out mate?

I am finding it physically difficult to comprehend what information you are attempting to acquire. Please separate your questions from your statements.

99% of people enter the sport by doing an AFF course (or similar such as static line). They then gain skills gradually by jumping with friends (who you will make at the DZ) and jumping with coaches who can focus on specific skill sets.

Very very few people enter the sport through one of these two university courses. They have only been around for a couple of years. They get VERY mixed reviews. Some people have very bad things to say about them. Some people love them and evidently have done exceptionally well out of them.

They are not, by any means the only way to become a camera flyer. However they may offer some advantages to those who wish to fly into the sport and have the required commitment to make the course work for them.

Don't just assume they are some magic panacea however which will instantly guarantee a lucrative career as a camera flyer – there is far more to the role and it can be very difficult to make it pay well.

Don't forget to budget for a rig and camera gear. That could end up setting you back upwards of £5000 alone.

[timmybuddhadude 0]

thanks dude, caffeine down
The question is : shall I do that /those courses? I have funding now, I need advice on what people thinK about that, its a Whopping 11% interest over 7 years, and I can use the money for somEthing else too, if I blow* it on all that
vrs
But I do hear that jobs (camera ) in nz loads around ,to pay off immediately, etc.. that was my experience too, its a huge industry compared to uk and no/lack of advertising, etc.
Keep on talking about another route (besides auk/chch) to obtain those skills, where to do AFF (don't say west of England!..cannot afford it/that, but did check it out.. I may fly to fiji,etc. There should be proper*funding here that covers that (uni programes,etc /student journeys//travel)
Shall I just sit through the aff somewhere now, like Spain, etc, sit back, know I can jump, and then pay for a bulk package there..nz as a separate stage?
I think what you said answers it, that I make the coach friends there to help me through it, but don't I have to pay them stacks more if done independantly, bit by bit.. I really dont understand.
I guess I should just do the aff now, and not put all that cash into a 200 jump pot, after all, I may not be good enough and go back to working in a bar, etc. I am shit scared* of paying a huge amount and commiting to that as a course/degree, I have only done a handful of jumps, statics&tandems etc.. its a big jump is it not to go through to a whole course, but work in aus/ nz seems pretty much guaranteed by it for payback time.
I guess I should just do the aff.. where is cheapest? I looked at this site. If i did it in columbia is that licence a registered aff too?

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I guess I should just do the aff.. where is cheapest

Swing and a miss man. If you're really interested in becoming a camera flier shouldn't your question be "where is the best?" Not, "where is the cheapest."

You know, you could always go to Perris or Eloy over in the states so you could do AFF, do your coaching AND get a lot of training in the wind tunnel so to help you along the way for your goals.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[mr2mk1g 10]

Yes you have to pay for any formal coaching you want to take. No you don’t have to use formal coaching however. There are plenty of people who learned just by jumping with their friends (especially where their friends are good enough to be coaches). But formal coaching does increase the speed at which you will learn.

I have heard mixed reports about how much actual post qualification coaching is provided on these courses you’re looking at. Make sure you find out exactly what is offered so you can make a fair comparison.

If you were certain you wanted to get into the sport big time I think probably the uni courses you’re looking at are actually the cheapest fastest way in… but they are not for the feint hearted. You won’t get your money back if you drop out (just like a academic uni course) and you don’t get a lot of time off.

Try searching here for previous posts – there are a number. I hope you’ll also get a few more answers from those who’ve actually been on the courses – they are out there.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Remeber this line in my post above:

Don't forget to budget for a rig and camera gear. That could end up setting you back upwards of £5000 alone.

that's an important factor. unfortunately

[skydog 2]

Quote

But I do hear that jobs (camera ) in nz loads around

Dont kid yourself about the amount of jobs available in NZ.

Now that a decent living can be earnt and the amount of "graduates" floating around, it is quite difficult to find decent paid work.

There are a handful of extremely busy DZ's in NZ, but the guys there know they have it good and a re usually reluctant to move on and free up a slot.

NZ also works very much on who you know not what you know. Many people are taken on through personal recommendation, which can be difficult if you are a 200 jump wonder.

Relying on skydivng to repay loans is a false hope.

As for which course, well they are both capable of taking your money, as for the results, who can say..

Bryn

Journey not destination.....

[timmybuddhadude 0]

yeah I really hope I get answers from those that have done the courses too, that'd be cool
Thanks man, Auk sounds good that they can give some money back and $30 a jump if you 'chicken out' at 100jumps, etc, it may be the way to go..to give them all the money, they give it back what you don't use'.
wow, that's a good deal, I think I have answered my question.. fly to nz, do the Aukland course at this stage, get aff done, it'll just be a 600.00 flight, if I feel good enough after 100 jumps I will get the money back, and at least have my aff and half the money back , that was/ sounded a good deal. I think I will do that.
THANKS FOR MAKING THE DECISION FOR ME!
Do you, or anyone else(aggiedave,etc/states guys..) know of anywhere else* in the world that gives that 'training'?200 jumps commercial progs, etc? ..states/wherever.. bulk sport-coach packages.
Let me know ,this would be cool to know, perhaps with theflight to nz/aus included though the weather! is good &right for 'jumping' now, it'd be cheaper
ANY OTHER BULK-SPORT TRAINING PACKAGES??
ANY OTHER BULK-SPORT TRAINING PACKAGES??
Is there only two finally?
also i have bought a 'sceptre'.rig&reserve prepared... what camera would you advise.. light etc

[daniel_owen_uk 0]

Honestly I think you are getting a mile ahead of yourself.

Take AFF, see how you get on with that first. Have fun jumping.

You will probably love skydiving (hell I know its got me hooked), but you might not.

You might find you don't want to jump camera, maybe you want to become a TI etc etc.

Basically my point is that you need to learn to skydive well first.

Personally I did AFF in the USA and loved every single second of it (I am from UK too).

__________________

BOOM Headshot

[skydog 2]

You are joking about already having bought kit??

As of January 2006 all persons below B licence will be required to have an AAD in NZ. Does your kit have an AAD?

Also factor in: accommodation, food, travel, camera equipment, car (Mercer is in the middle of nowhere as is Pudding Hill. I know because I have been working at both), etc.

Yes at Mercer you will get any unused jump money back, which is one ahead of CHCH.

My advice, FWIW, do your AFF, (Empuriabrava have a winter special on at the moment).

If it is for you then devote your time an dmoney to it. If your a golfing candidate you haven't lost that much...

Bryn

Journey not destination.....

[timmybuddhadude 0]

you sound a good person to talk to! (ex-Mercer)
By aad i assume you mean auto-deploy, that's good, I gotta get 1 anyway.
Also the right camera as I have a lid which is good ..1st bmx (no good ), then mbike now finally a sky-lid!! Its light, etc, so I gotta get a camera..
Bu that is ages away...
SO the Spain deal you mention (I checked that too), Is still only 1250.00£ uk approx , you are right, but i don't know what the winds are like there now, etc (compared to Mercer/auk etc)
Mercer's aff is 1250.00 approx 20jumps anyway, is it not? even on their 'now smaller' programmes...
you sound cool to talk to (no offence mat, you do too..and Aggiedave you Know best..), because you worked at Mercer, that's basically what I am on the verge of doing.
Yes, giving me that cash back sounds good. Do you think 'living' on the d-z as some guys there is a bit of a boring experience, shall I budget for a bike etc&commute to partyland?/?
after n.z I realised&searched all of uk after seeing family for a 'geographical' place to live near a d.z. (and d.z. funding/banks etc vrs saving)and diving, aukland seems to have all that (unlike uk)..as a resident I can stay there too. A Then now I am thinking that if I jump full-time like you there.. yeah I get the point.
Write more about Mercers size etc/ planes (just 1??).. vrs the 'Spain' one.. and thats not a bulk package/ i feel that what mercer offers though it is not nzqa (unfortunately), is brilliant with the money-back thing, V V V TRUE BIG CLAP to MERCER
so whats the situation, size of planes, etc, I guess I can contact them
hmmm...
gotta go for now after this reply if you have 1??...
SO just 2xbulk packages in the world?
spain vrs auk and paying flight..what do you reckon?

and while I add it, I think its ridiculous the uk doesn't fund it , jumping as nz does/ maybe even aus someday soon, as a videoographer sport-thingy, and Mat you should get onto that, as a uk pro.. besides the red arrow army route, etc. It needs to be developed as a business here too, lets consult the georaphy/geology/weather type guys, maybe that is a space/ uk thing> Personally, I think it is advertising, as a kiwi said to me just yesterday!... come into Gatwick/Heathrow there are 0%% ads, unlike auk/chch etc.
GET ONTO IT UK.
Not that I know much , I am only a few- jump guy ex raf vague-attempt yrs ago, who sat in on a few loop the loops when it comes to this, and have been strapped in the back of a huge war thing..and have done some statics and tandems.. but i need to twiddle and twist with a camera and make movies now BIG TIME
HELP* give advice... more needed.... keep on talking dz.com

[mr2mk1g 10]

Quote

and while I add it, I think its ridiculous the uk doesn't fund it , jumping as nz does/ maybe even aus someday soon, as a videoographer sport-thingy, and Mat you should get onto that, as a uk pro.. besides the red arrow army route, etc. It needs to be developed as a business here too, lets consult the georaphy/geology/weather type guys, maybe that is a space/ uk thing> Personally, I think it is advertising, as a kiwi said to me just yesterday!... come into Gatwick/Heathrow there are 0%% ads, unlike auk/chch etc.
GET ONTO IT UK.

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about.

Commercial skydiving in the UK is alive and well. There's going on 20 commercial skydiving centers across the UK, all of which could offer you the kind of course you're asking about.

They don't list them because no one wants them - partly because of the expense of doing such a course in the UK... but give any one of them a ring and I'd bet they'd be able to put a package together for you for a price.

As for normal skydiving opps... they all offer those too of course - AFF or RAPS followed by various coaching programs and normal jumps. That's all you're looking at in OZ etc except you're paying up front for it all.

That is literally the only difference – you pay for it all up front and the DZ's have managed to convince the NZ govt. that skydiving is actually something which should attract government education funding.

[skydog 2]

And as with all student loans they have to be repaid, which should'nt be forgotten. So the course is not free or subsidised, you do eventually pay the market price for the course.

The jumps per $ is good, but if you are an overseas jumper you have to factor in all the "small" things, which add up to a lot.

Having worked at both centres I am in an ideal position to tell you what is what.

If I was a kiwi or from OZ then either "course" is good value, but for the overseas jumper then something locally sourced could be more beneficial.

And for any DZO's who want to institute a program like this then feel free to mail me and i will tell you the pro's and cons of developing, and more importantly, delivering a course such as this.

Dont mail me with an anonymous, non checkable, profile. I have already been threatened with legal action for saying what I think.

Cheers

Bryn

Journey not destination.....

[timmybuddhadude 0]

hi are you still about mat ..so whats the price for a similar programme, paying up front, 200 jump plus in uk.. can you (west of England).. or SOMEONE put ONE TOGETHER FOR ME and give a price??
pehaps I should post a new forum qqqq??
ie will it top 4 grande.. can someone offer me that here in uk too or do i need to go there to do it
And why dont we convince the education authority the same, get it advertised and find* some business here, besidesArchitecture.
tInto
x

[timmybuddhadude 0]

So where are you now, Mr Mercer Bryn, are you a kiwi* and uk jumper?.. if so keep on writing and tell me more and combine a programme in the uk or sort one if you can, Have a look at what you can do* If you are working on auk ..dropzone, any other Alternative' but the nz courses which is all good and its summer, but this is the decision....
Aukland does seem a cool place to do it though when it comes to dough and offers, I cannot really loose but for flying all the way over there for 500 quid and haviing to re-arrange my life again and go hard out it and not fuck-up. You've got no idea* how hard and long it was to convince a uk bank to give me the dough for it, bro, bloody stupid&ironic. haha. Indirectly it had to come through another route, personal loan, Its not 'career development' etc even though that is higher % (or l.e.a)
..Oh, I sussed it, dont worry you are a kiwi/aussie pport holder jumping in nz tandem chch&auk and probably all over as you are a 'pro'.
Mate, you guys have it lucky, the shiyt I have been through to get a 'loan' for it is unbelievable.
Although an English dude'' worked for a year in a factory and saved* for the chch programme.. which personally I am unbothered/ prepared to do now thats one huge mission of saving .. once you have developed the 'taste'.
That* was dedication, I wonder why he couldnt get a bank loan'?.. bad credit, no idea. But man he saved hard in a menial job for a year for the chch course.. RE S P E CT whoever he was, and dead/ extremely/ very etc etc inspiring.. that is DEDICATION.
respect to steve and that that someone got the lea (S.link your 'area').stuff sorted in chch at last, and some government'' in the world stood up and paid notice, for jumping kids who want paid jump-work, and who dont want the raf route but wanna jump young . I mean the sports team, Bro. Hopefully other people/ curriculums/ tourist industries will take notice, and maybe I 1 day, or defo Mat can sort it.. Spread the word. And believe me, my word / I dont know much but I want and need to do it and I am english. At this stage it feels so right, and at 100 Iwould be satisfied, though yr invercaRgill/etc free snowboard courses are to be desired too for thosE guys( not my good footin)...thats an irrelevant subject.. but tasted&developed there/where you are /are from. w o w.
It seems a mission to take a huge 'bank loan' 4 it and i am plopping it, but thats the only way, maybe I am just scared* about meeting guys(&girls)'better than me' and tasting that full career/movement ladder properly.. de blar
gotta be done. Its aukland or somewhere else.. Can anyone provide a 'somewhere' else for the same/ less cost etc or is that the mission?. only and best way at the mo.
Awaiting another idea or i will book and flight and go there, just called them last week &found out all details. Gotta get paperwork loans,etc finalised.

[timmybuddhadude 0]

Right - I am going to BOOK the AUKLAND MERCER course. pay 4000£ uk up front, and if I drop-out it will only be after 100 jumps
SO BEFORE I FLY AND GO THERE AND DO IT (this summer...sooooon)
DOES/ CAN ANYONE OFFER A BETTER OFFER .. a whole load of cash up front for loads of training? I am pretty convinced I need over 100 at least, until I can put a 'chute' on my head, etc, freefly & get the grips/freedom/dynamics of that
cheers
WRITE BACK. This is a choice, someone else offer me it or I go to Mercer which is all good.. will have to be done I see no other way* cheers mercer.
listening?...

[timmybuddhadude 0]

still havent done it, and just got my pchute stolen, it was a 150 anyway too ggod for me it seems, but proves how much iwanted it, whoever stole probably doesnt use it, and i really wanted to.. although it was a 150 and my aff (emp) is gonna soon be done, obviously on rented rig now. Someone get it for me !(purple light blue teardrop container ,whatever amazing bits inside..)
timx