Rick 67 #26 May 25, 2006 That's why I don't like the tetrahedon in light winds it can stay in 1 spot even when the wind changes. I know which load you are referring to from last weekend and if everyone on the load would have followed the landing direction of the 1st person down they would of landed in the right direction. I don't know what the people landing on the tarmac were thinking. As light as the winds were last Sunday I would have taken a downwind landing rather than landing on the runway.You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #27 May 25, 2006 > . . .in about a three mph wind. The arrow got stuck in the downwind position. There's no way that should be a problem. Landing in a 2-3mph downwind should be a demonstrable skill before anyone gets an A license. You WILL land downwind at some point in your skydiving career. If you can't - get a bigger canopy. >That's why I don't like the tetrahedon in light winds it can stay in 1 >spot even when the wind changes. That's what's good about it! It's more important that everyone land the same direction than have everyone land into the wind, but in 3 different directions. Wind indicators (if used to set landing direction) should NOT respond to every wind gust, but rather should indicate the average wind direction. A tetrahedron to set direction, along with a bunch of streamers, is pretty ideal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #28 May 25, 2006 QuoteI think it's a good idea to have some light streamers, in addition to a windsock or tetrahedron, for just this reason. I really dont like those in very low wind. People will pick 1, and follow it, and inevitably other jumpers will follow the other "streamer" wich point 180deg away.... I prefer 1 wind indicator per landing area.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #29 May 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteI think it's a good idea to have some light streamers, in addition to a windsock or tetrahedron, for just this reason. I really dont like those in very low wind. People will pick 1, and follow it, and inevitably other jumpers will follow the other "streamer" wich point 180deg away.... I prefer 1 wind indicator per landing area. Just one has the disadvantage of being far away from many spots, but I've seen exactly what you describe when light and variable winds coupled with different wind devices result in people landing in variable directions. I wish it were as easy as saying 'follow the first person or at least the crowd.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #30 May 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteI think it's a good idea to have some light streamers, in addition to a windsock or tetrahedron, for just this reason. I really dont like those in very low wind. People will pick 1, and follow it, and inevitably other jumpers will follow the other "streamer" wich point 180deg away.... I prefer 1 wind indicator per landing area. Agreed. We have the rule that "in light and variable, land North". Not everybody follows it, but the idea is nice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nbblood 0 #31 May 25, 2006 Quote> . . .in about a three mph wind. The arrow got stuck in the downwind position. There's no way that should be a problem. Landing in a 2-3mph downwind should be a demonstrable skill before anyone gets an A license. You WILL land downwind at some point in your skydiving career. If you can't - get a bigger canopy. >That's why I don't like the tetrahedon in light winds it can stay in 1 >spot even when the wind changes. That's what's good about it! It's more important that everyone land the same direction than have everyone land into the wind, but in 3 different directions. Wind indicators (if used to set landing direction) should NOT respond to every wind gust, but rather should indicate the average wind direction. A tetrahedron to set direction, along with a bunch of streamers, is pretty ideal. Yes! Thank-you! That's what I've been trying to say. Canopy traffic pattern is more important than wind direction.Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #32 May 26, 2006 Quote.. and still something switched in my head and I made a wrong decision. Point your tail the same way the windsock is pointing its tail. Point your mouth the same way the windsock is pointing its mouth. Need I say more? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjc 0 #33 May 26, 2006 QuotePoint your tail the same way the windsock is pointing its tail. Point your mouth the same way the windsock is pointing its mouth. Very nice one!Regards, Alexander. http://staticlineinteractive.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miss3sixty 0 #34 May 26, 2006 God, I know what you mean! Im under canopy, thinking 'fat end, thin end?' to myself over and over, and sometimes just have this big fat mental block! The 'eat the carrot' thing is fantastic ! To make it worse we have two windsocks (one at each side of the landing field) and they ALWAYS contradict each other. We also have wind blades near to one of the windsocks, which must have fell out with the windsock because they never agree either! To make things worse, I cannot see the bloody socks till I am at about 500 ft (think I need my eyes testing!) and the wind blades can be very deceiving (a bit like looking at art work by M C Escher, they look like they could go two differnet ways!) My drop zone is next to a lake surrounded by mountains and it has a 'thang', especially in summer, with turbulance and changing wind directions Its no good planning a landing pattern and expecting the wind to be doing the same thing when I land, it often changes by 90 degrees in this time and has turned 180 a fair few times too. Its also no good following other pilots, a lot of them land downwind anyway, I used to follow the tandems but I land before them these days. Plus, the wind direction at 2000ft is often different to on the ground. AND its no good hanging above the landing area till I can see because Ill get in the way! We get told off for making low turns too, so i always begin my landing sqaure till I can work it out, and make last minute adjustments whilst looking out for carrots and thinking about thin and fat ends!! ha haMiss3sixty Skydiving- it has its ups and downs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dustin19d 0 #35 May 28, 2006 QuoteI worry more about the established landing pattern than I do the wind indicators. I've been to more than one DZ where the guys with tiny canopys who get down first, landing downwind, cause the students/low #'s to do the same. They see the first in and just make up there mind to land that way also rather than look at the wind indicators. I admit I did that once as a student to. One thechniqe I was taught durring AFF was to confirm the wind direction by checking ground speed. Still use that from time to time around 1k since my eyes aren't so good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matt1215 0 #36 May 28, 2006 I've never made a downwind landing, but I have made a couple crosswinders. Post-AFF, I'd pull high (5k) and watch others, esp the tandems land. On one load, there were no tandems, and everyone ahead of me pulled at like 3k. Not remembering how to read the sock and seeing a bunch of deflated canopies on the ground, I lined up with the runway and landed crosswind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #37 May 28, 2006 Quote Not remembering how to read the sock and seeing a bunch of deflated canopies on the ground, I lined up with the runway and landed crosswind. See my post above. It's not that hard, really. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rj2163 0 #38 May 31, 2006 QuoteI clearly saw the direction the wind was blowing, but in my head I confused which way I should land. I knew that I should land upwind, I saw the windsock... and still something switched in my head and I made a wrong decision. You and your friend are not alone. I gotta say I was totally wind sock challenged. I had a real mental block. Up to about 30 jumps I'd note the wind direction and plan my landing pattern before I'd jump, I'd check my drift in the air and get the wind direction and strength but I'd see that frigg'n wind sock and my brain would say "the sock is pointing in that direction (like an arrow) so that's where I'm going" - downwind. I had to focus constantly to avoid getting confused. I only landed downwind once. Fortunatley the wind was light but I still came in fast with first a run, then foot slide and finished with with a knee slide stopping 3 feet in front of a rasberry bush that I then watched my canopy settle on. Then someone told me the "eat the carrot" thing and that just clicked for me. rj Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dzjohn 0 #39 May 31, 2006 I was forced to take a downwinder the other day(my first) with any real wind anyway. Got up off the ground thinking shit that was fast. oh and plastered in mud as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #40 May 31, 2006 I never had this problem... I usually saw it as which way is the carrot blowing away from the pole it is on.... And as far as tetrahedrons its a big freaking arrow cant f that up Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nbblood 0 #41 May 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteI worry more about the established landing pattern than I do the wind indicators. I've been to more than one DZ where the guys with tiny canopys who get down first, landing downwind, cause the students/low #'s to do the same. They see the first in and just make up there mind to land that way also rather than look at the wind indicators. I admit I did that once as a student to. One thechniqe I was taught durring AFF was to confirm the wind direction by checking ground speed. Still use that from time to time around 1k since my eyes aren't so good. Ok, I give up. [begin sarcasm] Land into the wind, it's the most important thing. You must absolutely, positively be landing into the wind. Forget what anybody else is doing around you. Turn low if you need to. Just make sure you get into the wind. Don't bother to practice crosswind or downwind landings, you shouldn't ever need to do them to save your life. Just make sure you land into the wind, no matter what the circumstances. [end sarcasm] Is that better?Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #42 May 31, 2006 >Its also no good following other pilots . . . That's actually a very good idea. It's better to land with everyone facing the same direction than to land in different directions - even if everyone lands into the wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #43 May 31, 2006 Quote>Its also no good following other pilots . . . That's actually a very good idea. It's better to land with everyone facing the same direction than to land in different directions - even if everyone lands into the wind. myself and another person got into it with someone at the ranch this last weekend on a NO WIND DAY where we were trying to decide on a landing direction and this person stated I am going to tland into the wind no matter what anyone else is doing... I said plainly well it is the policy here that we choose a landing direction and stick to it.... to which she replied...well 20 years ago it was first man down sets the pattern..... arrrrgggghhhhhhhhh Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #44 May 31, 2006 QuoteOk, I give up. Land into the wind, it's the most important thing. You must absolutely, positively be landing into the wind. Forget what anybody else is doing around you. Turn low if you need to. Just make sure you get into the wind. Don't bother to practice crosswind or downwind landings, you shouldn't ever need to do them to save your life. Just make sure you land into the wind, no matter what the circumstances. Is that better? No no no no no He is just kidding with this one, just in case you cannot tell I am spelling it out for you: disregard this piece of advice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nbblood 0 #45 May 31, 2006 There I fixed it to denote sarcasm.Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miss3sixty 0 #46 June 2, 2006 Thanks for doing that, I know for a fact there will be a few confused people thinking ' he sounds like he knows what hes doing, I'll stick with his advice' Phew!Miss3sixty Skydiving- it has its ups and downs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #47 June 2, 2006 Those of you at Z-hills need to ask Tami C how she learned to finally read the wind sock... she told me once after I screwed it up once and busted my hand on landing down/crosswind on a slope... I use the carrot analogy now... though I have the x-rays to remind me of my mistake and haven't made the mistake again... I've also become a much better canopy pilot and don't mind landing downwind any longer... Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nbblood 0 #48 June 2, 2006 QuoteThanks for doing that, I know for a fact there will be a few confused people thinking ' he sounds like he knows what hes doing, I'll stick with his advice' Phew! You've GOT to be kidding!!Blues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
