TALONSKY 0 #1 July 19, 2004 This last weekend, I was on the plane (otter) and by the door facing toward the pilot was a very experienced camera flyer. He was doing video a four-way team for a meet we were having. I noticed early in the plane ride he had his chest strap undone. There were at least 4 people facing him and 10 with in visual range to see him. At first I assumed since it was hot he just was going to do it up when he zipped up his suit. At 10000 AGL his suit was zipped up but his chest strap was still undone, everyone was getting ready I took that moment to let him know about his chest strap. Everyone around him and him was shocked that it had been missed. So I guess my point is everyone should always take a visual look at everyone else in the plane for gear mistakes, we were told to do this but how many of us really do it? Everyone is human and we can all forget something like a chest strap. Please look out for each other Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #2 July 19, 2004 There's obviously no way to know all the things we should see but miss. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #3 July 19, 2004 I agree totally, but my point was do we really all visually look at each other in the plane and scan looking at chest straps, 3 rings and that all flaps are closed, or do we just get on the plane and talk with our friends and think about our skydive. I would hope that when the day comes that I forget my chest strap or flaps are not closed that my fellow skydivers are 0bservant enough to see it before I leave the plane. Now, I realize it is my responsiblity to make sure my gear is right but we should all be kind of looking out for each other. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #4 July 19, 2004 Quote At first I assumed since it was hot he just was going to do it up when he zipped up his suit. I make a point of pointing out any life taking potential mistakes as soon as I see them. You never know what shit might happen: airplane emergency, etc....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #5 July 19, 2004 Good point, and I know after the fact that I should have pointed it out right away. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyPrincess2002 0 #6 July 19, 2004 I was very happy when you did point that out (the earlier the better)- Thank you for your observation. I do look at the other people during the plane ride up that are around me, but I think my mind was on the competition this time. We are all prone to forget things at times, and have our mind on other things. I am glad to be with a group of people that care about each other. He is a very safe and awesome camera flyer, it just goes to show that we all need to watch out for each other. If this means the person holding the ladder points at each persons chest strap as they load the plane - the more pre-cautions the better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #7 July 19, 2004 I agree that this camera flyer is one of the safest and most well accomplished skydivers I know and not to meantion a great person. I totally could see videoing for two teams almost back to back how he could miss it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
j3zz 0 #8 July 20, 2004 Kirk In the UK(at least all the DZ's I have jumped at) you have to have a signed gear check before boarding the plane. This is a great policy and I am sure has prevented many no gear check related problems. I for one would not want to rely on some person randomly looking about to check. All though I am perfectly happy checking myself out I trust myself but hey everyone makes mistakes. I know it seems a pain in the neck but it takes 2 minutes and could save your life. "Now I know why the birds fly" Hinton Skydivers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pccoder 0 #9 July 20, 2004 good job telling him. probably shouldn've mentioned it immediately, but still you didn't let him leave the plane without it fixed. i agree we should be on the lookout, it's just common courtesy and we should certainly be extending it to our fellow jumpers as we hope they would for us. PcCoder.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #10 July 20, 2004 Seeing is a conditioned response. We all look. Very few of us see. Those that do, are looking for things that are wrong, not right. They are looking for an incorrect image or sight picture, and so are rewarded when they find something. Others look for the right picture, and so quickly become bored when they find it repetitivly. Those who have worked as bodyguards will find this skill is second nature. The challenge remains "How do we stay sharp, and able to respond in under a second, when NOTHING has gone wrong for 20 years?" You life, and the lives of your friends depend on your answer. But I think yours is a good one. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #11 July 20, 2004 That is a great practice that the UK has. I do not think it would be popular in the USA though, we are suppose to but not mandated to have a gear check from a fellow skydiver before getting on the plane. It seems here that after a while most skydivers become confident in their ability to not make mistakes and stop asking for gear checks. I along with most others at my DZ and for that fact at any DZ I have been to on the West Coast fall into this category. So for us the only saving grace (outside of our own double checks in the plane) to a mistake would be that visual check everyone should be giving each other. I also agree with you that it is kind of scary to think, if I miss something the only way it would get caught would be from someone off handedly looking at me for a gear mistake. I know, I should have mentioned the chest strap to the camera flyer immediately now, but the longer we were in the plane the more I was horrified that no one else caught the mistake( I mean if it was a misrouted chest strap I could kind of understand, but for everyone to miss that he did not have a chest strap hooked up at all is another thing all together). To add too it he had a white bodied camera suit with blue webbing on his container which atleast to me made it really stick out that the chest strap was not hooked up. Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carbonezone 0 #12 July 20, 2004 Good Catch.....Next time dont wait so long to tell someone! I personally would have told them right away ! Nice Job Edited to add: Oops should have read down more "lots of people already said that" <> Tami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #13 July 20, 2004 When I jump with a camera, my routine is: prepare camera, don parachutes (including attaching all straps), pick up camera. Any interruption means repeating all of that stage (i.e. don parachutes). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #14 July 20, 2004 Quote In the UK(at least all the DZ's I have jumped at) you have to have a signed gear check before boarding the plane. This is a great policy and I am sure has prevented many no gear check related problems. Does it work? Or do people still make catches on the plane? As Tonto writes: "Seeing is a conditioned response. We all look. Very few of us see." A written requirement that few respect just turns into a pencil whipping exercise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NicoNYC 0 #15 July 20, 2004 That's the first thing I do after I sit my butt down and buckle up. I scan around the people within my viewable sight and I see if their sh*t is up to par. The very first thing I notice is when people don't buckle their helmet straps or when freeflyers that wear a t-shirt and shorts and they don't tuck in their shirts. I point it out to them and make sure they fix it in front of me. Also, up on the ride via the Skyvan, people try to unbuckle at 1,000ft and I point out to the signs and they read me loud and clear. I'm no expert or a Skygod but I know my basic safety sh*t. And if someone doesn't follow it, I point it out and if they still don't follow it at least I told them about it. People usually don't give me any lip about it. We're all cool like that at our DZ. How many hits of adrenaline can you take? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazarrd 1 #16 July 20, 2004 I used to mention things like that I saw on jumpers before exit time, but I get the "you have less jumps than me and i know what im doing" look too often. If I see something like that on a guy climbing out Ill say something, but other than that, my mouth stays shut unless it's something that you don't see too often. .-. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #17 July 20, 2004 Quote I used to mention things like that I saw on jumpers before exit time, but I get the "you have less jumps than me and i know what im doing" look too often. If I see something like that on a guy climbing out Ill say something, but other than that, my mouth stays shut unless it's something that you don't see too often. Go back to the way you used to do it. If someone gives you the "you have less jumps than me and i know what im doing" look, blow them a kiss. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NicoNYC 0 #18 July 20, 2004 Quote used to mention things like that I saw on jumpers before exit time, but I get the "you have less jumps than me and i know what im doing" look too often. I agree with MJO sparky. First of all, you're not doing that to get a thank you nor are you doing that to get a snooty remark dude. You're forgetting the key important thing. You're doing it because you see something wrong and you're possibly preventing a malfunction or even someone's death man. Who cares if they give you lip. Say you're peace and be done with it. Think of it as suggesting to them that they might have overlooked something. We're all human, we tend to have off days. That's usually when we may or may not hurt ourselves. Just do your brotherly or sisterly duty and move on. How many hits of adrenaline can you take? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ps5601 0 #19 July 21, 2004 Quote Quote In the UK(at least all the DZ's I have jumped at) you have to have a signed gear check before boarding the plane. This is a great policy and I am sure has prevented many no gear check related problems. Does it work? Or do people still make catches on the plane? As Tonto writes: "Seeing is a conditioned response. We all look. Very few of us see." A written requirement that few respect just turns into a pencil whipping exercise. While some UK DZs are more strict than others on the checking and signing off procedure, I have not heard of anyone catching anyone else in the plane in the UK with missing chest straps. At some DZs the person who does the check must then sign for the check (and they must be qualified to do the check). At others one person can sign for several checks to say they are happy the load has been checked. In either case it is the jump master's job to ensure that the whole load has been checked prior to boarding. It us unfortunate that the thing missed most often (aside from the Knife, which is madatory for all licenced jumpers in the UK) is a mis-routed chest strap. Still, I have not heard of people boarding in the UK like that (although I am sure that it has happened). While there are a few cases of people signing for someone with out them having a check, it is pretty rare (at least at my DZ). Blue skies Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #20 July 21, 2004 Yesterday, during my second jump of the day another fun jumper was climbing aboard the aircraft with his chest strap undone(100 jump wonder type... w/no A-licence)... the person sitting in the doorway was quite upset by this and made him close the strap before boarding the aircraft. then pointed out that everyone should ensure that they have all of they're gear ready (checked, double checked, etc...) before climbing on the aircraft... He has 12,000+ jumps... so I think that is a good idea... I'm only a low numbered jumper... but my theory is that nothing in this sport should be rushed (downsizing, going from Bellyflying to FreeFlying, camera flying, packing your parachute, whatever...) because that is how you end up dead in this sport. Scott don't let someone get on/be on an airplane with something amiss w/their gear. Be it a first time AFF student to a 12,000+ skygod.Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #21 July 21, 2004 I once watched 2 guys get on a CASA wearing their street clothes, with their rigs and gearbags in hand. During the climb, they got geared up. I hate even getting on the plane with my legstraps loose or my booties off my feet. Also heard a guy mention he once packed in the back of a DC-3 during the climb. That's taking it a little far... Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,072 #22 July 21, 2004 >Also heard a guy mention he once packed in the back of a DC-3 during the climb. Heck, I watched someone finish packing in a climbing helicopter with the door open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustRelax 0 #23 July 22, 2004 I've been looking out. I aim to be the first one to catch one at our DZ. I'm scared for my skydive buddies - wouldn't want any harm to come to them, so I look for chest straps in particular. ________________________________________ Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #24 July 23, 2004 Going to altitude I usually look at everyone that I can see, I just gaze @ chest straps, rsl's, hook knives,3 rings, pilot in good order (in pouch). Hey as you can see I am by no means a seasoned skydiver but I try to be "on every load" as observant as I can. These guys are my buddies!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #25 July 23, 2004 That is exactly what we are suppose to do. I just was shocked on this occasion that in a plane filled with skydivers most in the sport well over 4 years that no one caught it. It really makes me wonder how many really do look at chest straps and gear on the way to altitude. Keep it up Kirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
