BRYANGOESBOOM 0 #1 May 22, 2006 Just wondering how other DZ's operate The Drama: I quit jumping at a DZ and still had some cash on account. Several months later I went by to close my account and get my cash back. I even called in advance to see if I could pick it up. The nice young lady on the phone said it wouldn’t be a problem. I drive out there and the dz manager pulls this "you have to jump it off" rule out of his ass. I quit jump there for a reason, so I did the next best thing I transferred the cash to one my friends that is still jumping there (not many left). I am not surprised at the DZ manager’s actions. What really pisses me off is that at any given point I had a crap load of money on that account some times up to $1,000. This "jump it off or lose it" rule was never mentioned to me NEVER!! I did walk away from this mess but the whole thing seemed ridiculous. If you dont know your current dz's cash on account policy i suggest you find out Not only will you look better, feel better, and fuck better; you'll have significantly increased your life expectancy. --Douva Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #2 May 22, 2006 Good question to ask, and I will admit I don't actually know the policy of the DZs I jump, but then again, I seldom have much money on an account anywhere. My thought is this: If you get some sort of discount/free jump benefit for putting a large chunk of money on your account, it's probably fair for a DZO to require that to be "jumped off." That should be made clear up front, though. But if you're just putting cash on your account for your convenience and theirs, well, then, I think it is still your cash. I don't bother to put much money on an account if there's no financial benefit to me - why should I let my money sit in the DZOs account when it can be sitting in mine and earning interest?"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BRYANGOESBOOM 0 #3 May 22, 2006 QuoteMy thought is this: If you get some sort of discount/free jump benefit for putting a large chunk of money on your account, it's probably fair for a DZO to require that to be "jumped off." That should be made clear up front, though. I understand this but the last deposit i made to that account was $300 and thats not enough to get any kind of discount. The balance left on the account was $80. Not alot of money but still thats 4 jumps or a few cases of good beer. Not only will you look better, feel better, and fuck better; you'll have significantly increased your life expectancy. --Douva Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrickyDicky 0 #4 May 22, 2006 At my old DZ the owner started getting pissed off with people using him as a bank. Packing was loged in the packing book and this was added to peoples accounts when someone went through the book (usually about once a week). Some people managed to make huge amounts through packing, and some people just left large sums on their accounts. Because of tax things, he eventually started charging people £50/year if they left too much on their account all the time. He used to refund people with cash, but he stopped this, but would let you transfer credit to anyone else. UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #5 May 22, 2006 I never understood this "cash on account" idea. Your problem is one of many why I would never do that. Others: DZ goes tits up. Clerical errors (either beneficial or detrimental) Cash not in MY pocket for use as needed Visiting a non-home DZ? I'll pay on a per-jump basis. Two DZs in the Atlanta area wanted me to leave my credit card with them and ring it up at the end of the day....that dog don't hunt.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie 0 #6 May 22, 2006 People put money on their account for sake of conveniece. The problem with people putting THEIR money on THEIR accounts, is, well what is the problem? The money belongs to them until the point where it is used to pay for a service or product at the dz. Only then does it become the right of the dz to claim it. I think that the situation arises when the dz accounts for the money in their books as soon as it goes on the account, not when actually used. If a dz has a policy like this, my suggestion would be to only put enough money on account to pay for the jumps that are planning to be made that day or that weekend. Tubing, so easy a caveman can do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #7 May 22, 2006 The only time I ever left cash on account was when I was working at a DZ.I jumped most of the money I made off the account. I had a dz try that no refund crap on me when I was visiting up north once.I put $100 on account and the weather craped out.I had to make an ass out of myself to get my money back.I have never gone back to that dz.To all of the DZOs that think this is a good policy,do you think this has cost them some money?If you have an unhappy customer send them home with their money.It's better for the vibe and maybe someday that person will come back. The packing issue got to be a problem where I used to jump.I don't blame them for stopping that.It puts the DZO in a position of having money that should be taxed going through his account. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #8 May 22, 2006 This whole concept of "money on account" changes radically when you are trying to make a living by skydiving. There are a couple of DZS - back East - where I wanted to work, but could never reach an agreement with the DZO. The first DZO said "You are welcome to work here, but you will never be able to take cash out of your account. You will have to take it out in fun jumps." The second DZO has two rates for "money on account." He gives face-value if you take it out in fun jumps, but that "money on account" is worth 30 percent less if you want cash. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #9 May 22, 2006 QuoteThis whole concept of "money on account" changes radically when you are trying to make a living by skydiving. There are a couple of DZS - back East - where I wanted to work, but could never reach an agreement with the DZO. The first DZO said "You are welcome to work here, but you will never be able to take cash out of your account. You will have to take it out in fun jumps." The second DZO has two rates for "money on account." He gives face-value if you take it out in fun jumps, but that "money on account" is worth 30 percent less if you want cash. I've seen that happen before, and thought it was essentially a scam. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #10 May 22, 2006 I pay as I go so it wouldnt ever be an issue...__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #11 May 22, 2006 Reputable DZs will give you your money. But a DZ is not a bank and doesn't guarantee that they'll have everybody's cash on hand at any given time, or even a certain percentage of it. A DZ can have a no-refund policy (no idea if it's legal or not), or it can have a "tell them there are no refunds unless they bitch enough" policy. That's what many of em seem to have... well, except for the ones that actually have reputable business practices. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #12 May 22, 2006 Someone has to pay taxes on the money.I am assuming you did not want a check from the DZO. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #13 May 22, 2006 QuoteThe second DZO has two rates for "money on account." He gives face-value if you take it out in fun jumps, but that "money on account" is worth 30 percent less if you want cash. If that’s in the US (I don’t know Canadian law, can only make presumptions), the legality of that is highly questionable, especially if the pay is on the books and not under the table. Rate of pay is rate of pay, period. I suppose the DZO could claim that the cash rate is the actual rate of pay, and the fun-jump rate is a “bonus” rate, but that’s shaky. Having said that, you could probably only challenge that by taking it to court, and who the hell wants to do that? Doing what you are, i.e., avoiding the problem by just not working there in the first place, does make the most sense to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #14 May 22, 2006 QuoteSomeone has to pay taxes on the money.I am assuming you did not want a check from the DZO. If he gets paid straight cash & doesn't get issued a 1099 (bwahahaha!), he's just another illegal alien contributing to the problem. More fences on the Canadian frontier, I say! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #15 May 22, 2006 It's funny how so many of the people "making a living skydiving" want to do it tax free. disclaimer:If the above statement does not apply to you feel free not to tell me that you pay your taxes.I realizes there are people that work at DZs,get 1099's and pay taxes. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #16 May 22, 2006 QuoteI pay as I go so it wouldnt ever be an issue... Bingo! I've had and seen so many problems with account balances, that this is the method I have now adopted. I just show up with $20 bills in my back pocket, and every time I manifest for a jump, I slap a $20 bill on the counter. That creates extra work for manifest, but that's the only way I can assure that my account is always paid up, without excess left over, and without risk of losing anything due to mismanagement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pan 0 #17 May 22, 2006 Cash is cash, if you put it on account you should be able to take it off. meaning you show up, you give them $100 you should be able later that day to get money back that day. now if you wait three days later, the DZ might not have it any longer. money was deposited. I can see that issue. some places will hold a card and charge it at the end of day. I see that being fine to. how easy would it be for some one jumping all day then leaving....holding a card will make sure they cash out prior to leaving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #18 May 22, 2006 QuoteIt's funny how so many of the people "making a living skydiving" want to do it tax free. disclaimer:If the above statement does not apply to you feel free not to tell me that you pay your taxes.I realizes there are people that work at DZs,get 1099's and pay taxes. Who does and does not is not the issue for my reply but since this can of worms was opened - The Gov't pulled a record setting 312 BILLION USD for the month of April 2006 solely in sales taxes. With monthly revenues at such a staggering rate and the intolerable mismanagement(s) of our elected officials the problems we are facing as a country can hardly be attributable to problems that are miniscule in comparison as closing the northern borders, or the southern for that matter. If you want to look the real problem square in the face then look at our elected officials and you don’t have to look far, many local state representatives spend millions in campaign funds when compared to thousands just a few decades past. After factoring in the rate of inflation the sum of the equitation leaves me as nauseated as do the current salaries of sports celebrities – the current state of our elected Gov’t is no different… Grossly overpaid, overrated and over spending… Mike Savage (or Trent) for President! That is all...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BRYANGOESBOOM 0 #19 May 22, 2006 QuoteReputable DZs will give you your money. Dave I thought I was jumping at a reputable DZ. I should have picked up on their business practices when I went to one of their boogies. I had cash on account but was told that money could not be used for the boogie I had to pay cash "no exceptions." At that time I was naive and found myself making excuses for the dz's actions. Took me a while but I eventually opened my eyes. I took a hard look around and decided this place wasn’t for me. I was still open to one day go back their after the dz cleaned up its act, but this latest attempt to screw me was their last.Please forgive the bad grammar and spelling. I’m just another product of the public school system Not only will you look better, feel better, and fuck better; you'll have significantly increased your life expectancy. --Douva Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #20 May 22, 2006 QuoteI should have picked up on their business practices when I went to one of their boogies. I had cash on account but was told that money could not be used for the boogie I had a DZ do that to me once. I had jump tickets, but they made me buy new ones for the boogie and pay a registration fee. Course I didn't have enough jumps to get on any organized loads and I couldn't stay for food or beer, so I made some expensive solos that day. Didn't find out that not all DZs are like that until later. Went to cross keys a couple weekends ago. I asked if I had any money on my account. They said they don't have jump accounts. I said "well you did the last time I was here a few years ago." Sure enough, they were able to bring up my account and I still had $10 on it. No problem putting it toward my jumps, and I didn't ask, but I'm sure I could have gotten a refund for it too. There are right and wrong ways to run a business. I like the idea, at least from a DZ's point of view, of not having accounts but just selling jump tickets. Lose the ticket, you lose the jump. Want to give it to a friend? Just hand it over. Want your money back? Return it. Solves a lot of manifest problems. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #21 May 22, 2006 What the hell does your reply have to do with this thread or my reply? . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JAC 0 #22 May 22, 2006 Didn't you learn from my experience??? Being told to pay for jumps I paid cash for and they neglected to credit my account... BS. You never received a cash discount, they should've given it back without a hassle. Live and Learn Baby!!! Quote QuoteReputable DZs will give you your money. Dave I thought I was jumping at a reputable DZ. I should have picked up on their business practices when I went to one of their boogies. I had cash on account but was told that money could not be used for the boogie I had to pay cash "no exceptions." At that time I was naive and found myself making excuses for the dz's actions. Took me a while but I eventually opened my eyes. I took a hard look around and decided this place wasn’t for me. I was still open to one day go back their after the dz cleaned up its act, but this latest attempt to screw me was their last.Please forgive the bad grammar and spelling. I’m just another product of the public school system Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #23 May 22, 2006 Issue with selling tickets is that short of them being numbered there are some people out there that make use of a copying machine and try to short the DZ. Accounting for tickets sold and returned is important for a DZ, but at any point I've got 4-10 tickets in my wallet and I'm sure that throws off the accounting.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #24 May 22, 2006 It was explicitly told to me at my first DZ that there were no refunds on cash paid into an account, so I guess I've just assumed that it was the policy everywhere. Obviously receiving cash for working jumps is a different matter. Because of that, the only place I've ever put money on account was at my regular DZ, and even then only enough to cover a weekend or two. Anyway, if you can't get you cash back, you could try selling your account credit to another jumper for cash. You might have to give a small discount to make it happen. I've bought credit from another jumper at 105% several times; I give him $20 cash, he transfers $21 to my account. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #25 May 22, 2006 QuoteIssue with selling tickets is that short of them being numbered there are some people out there that make use of a copying machine and try to short the DZ. Accounting for tickets sold and returned is important for a DZ, but at any point I've got 4-10 tickets in my wallet and I'm sure that throws off the accounting. I think the latest manifesting software that uses tickets actually tracks each ticket with a bar code. If you try to dupe them the software will notice it when it's used to manifest the jumper. Also lost tickets can be easily reprinted since the system knows which tickets you have and haven't used. And I know certain dropzones like ZHills will even go so far as to refund jump tickets you don't need anymore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
