Safety concerns about Lakes Wales

[ChrisL 2]

At Cross Keys, they leave the door open while taxiing, close it for takeoff and till we are over seatbelts off altitude, then open it again for a bit.
This is on the Otter and Caravans. The skyvan door is closed from takeoff till till jumprun. The Porter door is closed from takeoff till jumprun.

So it depends on the plane. In any case the door is always closed from takeoff till we are well off the ground..

__

My mighty steed

[PhreeZone 20]

Skyvan door has to be shut since the fusalge is a lifting body on the plane and helps the plane climb. Planes like the CASA or C130 don't need to shut their doors to fly.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Fast 0]

We mostly close the door on takeoff but depending on who is sitting by the door and how warm it is someone might 'foot' it and let it be open a few inches for some circulation. After 1k on a warm day we open it till everyone cools off.


We did some loads on a borrowed otter and most of them were with the door open, makes you a little more nervous about losing a PC out the door but if anyone asked for it to be closed down it went.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[JohnMitchell 16]

In hot weather, which is a relative term up here in Seattle, we keep the door on the Twin Otter open on taxi, shut for take off, and open it back up during climb. Why do we shut it for takeoff? The open door creates more drag than a closed door. In the event of an engine problem during takeoff, the reduced drag will aid the pilot in handling the situation. I agree that I'd rather have the thing open for the crash, but avoiding the crash is even better. My 2 cents.

[pilotdave 0]

Otters (especially super otters) have lots of other ways out than the jump door. Might be easier after a crash to get out another way. 2 cockpit doors, a right side emergency exit in the back, and super otters have 2 more emergency exits under the wing. Dunno what kind of certification jump doors go through, but I bet the rest of the exits are designed to work after a crash.

I definitely prefer the door to be closed for takeoff, but I'd leave the decision to the pilot, not to the warm skygod sitting near it.

Dave

[chuckbrown 0]

BillVon's reply was right on. Do you want a door open during a take-off crash so that debris & flaming fuel can come pouring into the fuselage through an open door? I've jumped in 100 degree weather and can hang tough until 1,000 feet when the door gets opened to cool everyone off.

[arlo 0]

dave, i'm picturing you standing inside the plane pointing to each exit and where it's located. "there are 2 exits located at the front of the cabin and 2 in the rear. please locate the exits because the closest one to you may not be available." hehe

seriously, i can't believe that people are bickering about which is better: comfort or aircraft performance. surely to god you guys are kidding about being comfortable. suck it up for god's sake. it's just a little sweat. you guys huck yourselves out of planes but bitch because your balls sweat. gimme a break.

arlo

[happythoughts 0]

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you guys huck yourselves out of planes but bitch because your balls sweat.

My balls do not sweat, they "glisten".

Personally, I have found LW to be one of the best facilities around. It is also one of the cleanest.

It has also been one of the safest. I think that they tend to err on the side of caution. In the past, they forbid their staff to do hookturns before it was fashionable.

I am not a pilot, so I won't go into a door closed/open safety debate. The pilot can make that judgement. Personal preference is closed because of crosswinds hitting that open surface.

Some people/staff can be boneheads (rude) on a particular day, it's a human being thing.

There is an overall picture here. LW may be one of the last DZs that I would accuse of compromising safety. I wouldn't do it on one issue anywhere.

[bbarnhouse 0]

The policy at SDAZ is the door is to be closed on take-off and remained closed until 1,000 feet AGL.
At no time may a door be opened during take off if there is a student on board. It gets bloody hot here, but the rules are in place for everyone's safety.

I was recently in Lake Wales and yes the aircraft did take off with the door open, even with a student on board.
My overall experience at Lake Wales was a positive one, with friendly courteous staff. I've been there on more than one occasion and have always been treated very well.
I might suggest that you contact the DZM and express your concerns as well as your experience there. I am quite certain that she be interested to hear from you.

info@floridaskydiving.com

[cchandler 0]

The only reason I see to consider keeping the door closed until at least 1000 feet is pilot chutes!!! Suck to be sitting next to the door and snag a reserve pin going thru 150 feet Although, Casa's, helicopters, etc. all either have no door or operate with them open. Hhmmm.

Generally performance change is negligible - as noted in many aircraft Flight Manuals.

I would be more concerned that the door wouldn't open after a forced landing. However, DON'T JUMP JUNK. Whenever possible, frequent DZ's that use well maintained multi-engine airplanes and that senario won't be a problem.

[skyflyingbecca 0]

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I made my preference known when we were about to take off. The staff member in question continued to make remarks and hostile jokes all the way to altitude about "hey watch your pilot chute because it could pull you out the door." I think others on the plane who witnessed the event could verify my story. I was approached by several after the jump who agreed with closing the door and felt bad for the way I was treated. One just emailed me and said he spoke with the manager and that he felt the staff were out of line.

My 2cents: This "open door" issue is something that can be decided by pilots, skydivers, and DZO's at all their prospective dropzones. Even on this forum, we have seen different opinions by different pilots.
I think the actual "safety" issue is of a different topic. The way the staff member handled this jumpers concerns! Some previous posts have recognized this and I think it is CRUCIAL to a DZ's safety.

First, to have a personal concern dismissed is wrong.

Second, to ridicule someone about their pilot chute dragging them outta the plane, insinuating "oh, you baby!" is absolutely inappropriate.

Yes, every person, every staff member has a bad day, but it only takes one to make a BIG difference, especially in this sport.

This seems to be common with the personality types that tend to flock to skydiving. I have seen many tempers flare over practically nothing, and I will admit even I have a horrible temper. But people and especially staff need to be cognizant of their weaknesses and attributes. If the staff member had a little while to think on his actions, the right thing to do would be to approach you, apologize for the ridicule, and explain this was local custom. Then you only have the door issue, not this staff member's behavior as a gripe.

FINALLY, staff have a difficult responsibility. They are always watched, admired (by newbies)and their actions scrutinized (by other jumpers). They have a duty to be mature grown ups, to share their knowledge and experience. There are a couple people out there who are great skydivers, great teachers and coaches, but horrible staff instructors. They shouldn't take on the responsibility if they cannot be an appropriate role model. IMO.

Rant almost done. 'Bigway's' post (2nd from top) is a perfect example. One line from it: "I feel no matter how stupid the question is that an instructor should always answer with an appropriate answer" If instructors would act as if they were being watched or recorded all the time they are at work, this wouldn't happen repeatedly. At least not at this dz.

Sorry for being so windy, Blues everyone

"I know it's friday night, but come on. Surely there's something better to do than yell at people on the internet?" - Tom A.