ltdiver 3 #26 July 9, 2004 QuoteI -think- she was referring to the way the 4-way teams normally train for a Twin Otter exit. Obviously the camera flyer could/should/would adapt by probably doing a bit of a peel or maybe 3 O'Clock type of exit. Why don't you confer with the source instead of -thinking- you know the correct answer? See my answer to SkymonkeyOne. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #27 July 9, 2004 QuoteSeems that those of us with a concern were correct. Yes, you CAN exit the PAC like a Caravan or Beech. We never said you couldn't. We were trying to understand why there were those who claimed you -could- like an Otter. Up and Back. Seems that they were wrong. I think you're making a mountian out of a mole hill. Other than hand placement I've not change my exit on otters or Caravans. I have over 500 jumps from the camera step of Caravans, and as I've said before, there is no issue. With the A/C on a proper jumprun there is little chance of a camera flyer being able to launch high enough to encounter the tail. With a climbing jumprun, or a nose high attitude (as was the situation with a certian camera flyer) all bets are off.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #28 July 9, 2004 Quote Why don't you confer with the source instead of -thinking- you know the correct answer? See my answer to SkymonkeyOne. Because I was trying to be nice and defend your position so you didn't look pedantic and silly. By your responce, I -think- you're trying to teach me not to do that. Ok -- message received.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #29 July 9, 2004 *Meow.* *Ffffftt* *Ffftttt* (fur flying) ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #30 July 10, 2004 Other than hand placement I've not change my exit on otters or Caravans. I have over 500 jumps from the camera step of Caravans.Quote Where is the camera step on the caravan? Is it like the otters or lower? I've only jumped the one at San Diego and wasn't using /didn't notice the camera step. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #31 July 10, 2004 Just home from work. PM sent. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #32 July 10, 2004 QuoteWith the A/C on a proper jumprun there is little chance of a camera flyer being able to launch high enough to encounter the tail. With a climbing jumprun, or a nose high attitude (as was the situation with a certian camera flyer) all bets are off. And how often does Howie like to climb during the first bit of a 12,500' jump run? ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tspillers 0 #33 July 12, 2004 The tail is suppose to be farther back and higher than a Caravan according to the manufacturer. Todd I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #34 July 12, 2004 I'll post some pics later in the week. I was jumping Cark's (North West Parachute Centre) Pac 750 XL this last week. The plane fills a nice niche IMO. It's not a replacement for the likes of Otters where they can be made to be cost effective, but is ideal for smaller operations. A bit cramped inside. Annoying bump over the wings to sit on and the tail is a little close for comfort. Cark has strict rules in place with regards to pin checks and on not jumping up on exit. Camera flyers are advised to slide off - I certainly wouldn't want to go big from deap camera step. The big way attempts didn't happen. The most the pilot was happy with behind the wing is 9. I found myself the 10th man on a 10 way and had to keep fore of the wings until the base exited. As I moved aft, the door was coming up to meet me with the jump of the tail. The pilot didn't want us doing 14 ways, mainly because they've only just got it and he was still relatively new to the plane. He said it flew virtually identically to a Caravan, except he's always fighting to keep it from climbing. Watching the plane land exemplifies this. The pilot has to hold it 30- 40 odd degrees nose down just to get it to decend. Very short, wide wings... Tandem masters were jokingly complaining that they have to climb up hill in order to exit as once all the weight's off the plane just want's to keep on climbing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #35 July 12, 2004 Quote Tandem masters were jokingly complaining that they have to climb up hill in order to exit as once all the weight's off the plane just want's to keep on climbing. Could I suggest a power reduction to fly slower and keep the floor flat? With less weight you can fly slower to maintain altitude. Or, just plan on a climbing jumprun to keep the floor flat. Just a suggestion.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #36 July 12, 2004 Perhaps one the pilot will or has already hit on. I didn't notice the same uphill struggle when I was last out and the tandem master was describing some of the very first jumps out of it. They've only had it a week or two. Maybe I'd suggest it if it were my home DZ but I was just visiting. They put the worlds first static lines out of it the weekend before. The instructors did a load and videoed it for giggles. You can see that the plane has slowed down so much that canopies deploy virtually stright down from the door. They had this tape out the first night we were there as a kind of freak show as no one would believe it would go that slow. Cutting power for exits certainly isn't going to be a problem with this plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jiggs 0 #37 July 13, 2004 It might be an idea to try it before you make up your mind on this one - I am not a comp camera guy so I could not answer that question. I don't have that experience at that level. Whats that abbreviation YMMV? The w/s jumper extended all his wings as he tumbled on exit (he was on a classic) - he missed by a bit but I can see how with the right combination of events it could lead to carnage. I suppose the plus was to remind me how important it is to go out closed on my flights!"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #38 July 15, 2004 QuoteQuote Tandem masters were jokingly complaining that they have to climb up hill in order to exit as once all the weight's off the plane just want's to keep on climbing. Could I suggest a power reduction to fly slower and keep the floor flat? With less weight you can fly slower to maintain altitude. Or, just plan on a climbing jumprun to keep the floor flat. Just a suggestion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bad habit. Exiting while the plane is climbing has resulted in several tail strikes on DC-3s and King Airs. Come on folks, the (British) Royal Air Force learned that lesson 60 years ago! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #39 July 15, 2004 QuoteBad habit. Exiting while the plane is climbing has resulted in several tail strikes on DC-3s and King Airs. Come on folks, the (British) Royal Air Force learned that lesson 60 years ago! If the floor is flat and it happens to be going up still I don't see a problem with that. If you are in a full power climb then I agree with you.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites burbleflyer 0 #40 July 18, 2004 It sounds to me from reading the above posts that: the PAC750, while being billed as a jumpship, actually sucks to jump out of. Too many issues. It stalls, it stalls, it stalls, and lets see...you can hit the tail doing video. Ya. Sounds great. Not that it cant be used as a jumpship but I'll take a Twin Otter over it any day after reading this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #41 July 19, 2004 QuoteIt stalls, it stalls, it stalls, and lets see...you can hit the tail doing video. Ya. Sounds great. Not that it cant be used as a jumpship but I'll take a Twin Otter over it any day after reading this thread. Now where did you get that load of kark......? Who says it stall prone. In fact the stall speed of the bird is well lower than a Twin Otter, the tail is no lower than a Caravan, and it's a monster climber.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jiggs 0 #42 July 20, 2004 Nope its a lot of fun to jump from, its a very tidy plane to get loads in. Any plane can stall (or drop the tail) if given the right circumstances."Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #43 July 20, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt stalls, it stalls, it stalls, and lets see...you can hit the tail doing video. Ya. Sounds great. Not that it cant be used as a jumpship but I'll take a Twin Otter over it any day after reading this thread. Now where did you get that load of kark......? Who says it stall prone. In fact the stall speed of the bird is well lower than a Twin Otter, the tail is no lower than a Caravan, and it's a monster climber. From this post: Quotebut I have been in it a few times when it has stalled - Stall is very mushy and tends to roll around a bit. All those people at the back tend to block the wind to the tail = not good. Its good fun and relatively fast. When you get those chunks leaving you will tend to hit the roof but at least it means you get to have a longer dive going out last. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
ltdiver 3 #31 July 10, 2004 Just home from work. PM sent. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #32 July 10, 2004 QuoteWith the A/C on a proper jumprun there is little chance of a camera flyer being able to launch high enough to encounter the tail. With a climbing jumprun, or a nose high attitude (as was the situation with a certian camera flyer) all bets are off. And how often does Howie like to climb during the first bit of a 12,500' jump run? ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tspillers 0 #33 July 12, 2004 The tail is suppose to be farther back and higher than a Caravan according to the manufacturer. Todd I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #34 July 12, 2004 I'll post some pics later in the week. I was jumping Cark's (North West Parachute Centre) Pac 750 XL this last week. The plane fills a nice niche IMO. It's not a replacement for the likes of Otters where they can be made to be cost effective, but is ideal for smaller operations. A bit cramped inside. Annoying bump over the wings to sit on and the tail is a little close for comfort. Cark has strict rules in place with regards to pin checks and on not jumping up on exit. Camera flyers are advised to slide off - I certainly wouldn't want to go big from deap camera step. The big way attempts didn't happen. The most the pilot was happy with behind the wing is 9. I found myself the 10th man on a 10 way and had to keep fore of the wings until the base exited. As I moved aft, the door was coming up to meet me with the jump of the tail. The pilot didn't want us doing 14 ways, mainly because they've only just got it and he was still relatively new to the plane. He said it flew virtually identically to a Caravan, except he's always fighting to keep it from climbing. Watching the plane land exemplifies this. The pilot has to hold it 30- 40 odd degrees nose down just to get it to decend. Very short, wide wings... Tandem masters were jokingly complaining that they have to climb up hill in order to exit as once all the weight's off the plane just want's to keep on climbing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #35 July 12, 2004 Quote Tandem masters were jokingly complaining that they have to climb up hill in order to exit as once all the weight's off the plane just want's to keep on climbing. Could I suggest a power reduction to fly slower and keep the floor flat? With less weight you can fly slower to maintain altitude. Or, just plan on a climbing jumprun to keep the floor flat. Just a suggestion.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #36 July 12, 2004 Perhaps one the pilot will or has already hit on. I didn't notice the same uphill struggle when I was last out and the tandem master was describing some of the very first jumps out of it. They've only had it a week or two. Maybe I'd suggest it if it were my home DZ but I was just visiting. They put the worlds first static lines out of it the weekend before. The instructors did a load and videoed it for giggles. You can see that the plane has slowed down so much that canopies deploy virtually stright down from the door. They had this tape out the first night we were there as a kind of freak show as no one would believe it would go that slow. Cutting power for exits certainly isn't going to be a problem with this plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jiggs 0 #37 July 13, 2004 It might be an idea to try it before you make up your mind on this one - I am not a comp camera guy so I could not answer that question. I don't have that experience at that level. Whats that abbreviation YMMV? The w/s jumper extended all his wings as he tumbled on exit (he was on a classic) - he missed by a bit but I can see how with the right combination of events it could lead to carnage. I suppose the plus was to remind me how important it is to go out closed on my flights!"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #38 July 15, 2004 QuoteQuote Tandem masters were jokingly complaining that they have to climb up hill in order to exit as once all the weight's off the plane just want's to keep on climbing. Could I suggest a power reduction to fly slower and keep the floor flat? With less weight you can fly slower to maintain altitude. Or, just plan on a climbing jumprun to keep the floor flat. Just a suggestion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bad habit. Exiting while the plane is climbing has resulted in several tail strikes on DC-3s and King Airs. Come on folks, the (British) Royal Air Force learned that lesson 60 years ago! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #39 July 15, 2004 QuoteBad habit. Exiting while the plane is climbing has resulted in several tail strikes on DC-3s and King Airs. Come on folks, the (British) Royal Air Force learned that lesson 60 years ago! If the floor is flat and it happens to be going up still I don't see a problem with that. If you are in a full power climb then I agree with you.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burbleflyer 0 #40 July 18, 2004 It sounds to me from reading the above posts that: the PAC750, while being billed as a jumpship, actually sucks to jump out of. Too many issues. It stalls, it stalls, it stalls, and lets see...you can hit the tail doing video. Ya. Sounds great. Not that it cant be used as a jumpship but I'll take a Twin Otter over it any day after reading this thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #41 July 19, 2004 QuoteIt stalls, it stalls, it stalls, and lets see...you can hit the tail doing video. Ya. Sounds great. Not that it cant be used as a jumpship but I'll take a Twin Otter over it any day after reading this thread. Now where did you get that load of kark......? Who says it stall prone. In fact the stall speed of the bird is well lower than a Twin Otter, the tail is no lower than a Caravan, and it's a monster climber.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jiggs 0 #42 July 20, 2004 Nope its a lot of fun to jump from, its a very tidy plane to get loads in. Any plane can stall (or drop the tail) if given the right circumstances."Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #43 July 20, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt stalls, it stalls, it stalls, and lets see...you can hit the tail doing video. Ya. Sounds great. Not that it cant be used as a jumpship but I'll take a Twin Otter over it any day after reading this thread. Now where did you get that load of kark......? Who says it stall prone. In fact the stall speed of the bird is well lower than a Twin Otter, the tail is no lower than a Caravan, and it's a monster climber. From this post: Quotebut I have been in it a few times when it has stalled - Stall is very mushy and tends to roll around a bit. All those people at the back tend to block the wind to the tail = not good. Its good fun and relatively fast. When you get those chunks leaving you will tend to hit the roof but at least it means you get to have a longer dive going out last. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
