Andy9o8 2 #26 May 1, 2006 QuoteI looked at the husband and he said "Enough." I think that was a very immature answer on his part. Having the considerable experience he did, he should have known better; i.e., he certainly should have understood that you had a legitimate need to have a straight answer to that question. Instead, he just left you hanging. Would it really have killed him to just politely say, "about 5,000 jumps and I've been on the national 4-way team"? An organizer has the need for that information, not just to plan a good jump but to keep everyone alive. Look, you're the one who's gotten to know him, and you might think he's a nice guy. But at that moment, when you had a need for solid information, he instead made his ego Priority #1. If anyone should be embarrassed, it's him and not you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #27 May 1, 2006 Quotewe have an obligation to share our knowledge with others for the sake of our sport. I've also taught him to be very respectful of peoples' feelings and have cautioned him on coming across as arrogant. And I've taught him that no matter how much you have to offer, some people's egos just won't allow them to accept advice regardless of your age or knowledge. On the other hand I've taught him to be receptive to other peoples advice and then decide for himself on what to do with it. You nailed it, Sandy (Nick's a good kid (man, now) and I think he has a ton to offer, especially in packing tips. I changed to Germain's pilot chute pack style after talking with your boy. It's smarter.) tdog had a nice post too 2 other things 1 - it's a two way street, when you normally are the one 'giving' advice, it can be hard to be on the other side. Take it anyway and have a talk on it - even if you have 10000 jumps and was a national champ. It's how many champs got that way, they listen and experiment to everything and use the best of it all. Even wrong advice sometimes has stuff you can learn something positive from. Even if it's just how better to deal with another jumper. 2 - If someone doesn't want advice, walk away. They didn't ask for it anyway and you tried to help. If you keep pushing, it's not about helping them anymore, is it? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #28 May 1, 2006 QuoteMany have big numbers, but are not motivated to learn more and thus also have a stagnated understanding and knowledge level. I believe that's true in jumping as any sport or industry. BTW Tony, the above 'story' was at your old DZ!! I don't even remember who it was any more. Good times. I got pied at 1am, bonfire, and shitty pizza. Good times.~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hexadecimal 0 #29 May 1, 2006 I generally just avoid taking advice from people who I don't know and trust. If someone I don't know starts trying to give me advice, I'll let them talk, and I'll give some thought to their advice if it makes sense... but otherwise, it's in one ear, out the other. There are quite a few 100 jump wonders who like to "coach" people at my home dropzone, but pretty much everyone knows who they are, and newer people are usually warned to ignore them. There's also a certain level of common sense which should factor into whether or not you listen to someone's advice. Usually, bad advice isn't hard to spot once you've been around for a while. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #30 May 1, 2006 QuoteQuoteIt only takes one word to sort out these folks: "why?" Those that really know their subject will be able to go into depth on the reasons behind the way things are done. Not true. They respond with, "I read it on DZ.com", or , "I was told that by Clint". Exactly. And so they lose any credibility they might have had.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scaryshari 0 #31 May 2, 2006 Heee heee heee, I was there for that one Jim. It was cute. But, ya gotta ask! is Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 104 #32 May 2, 2006 QuoteQuoteAn organizer has the need for that information, not just to plan a good jump but to keep everyone alive. I have been an organizer at z-hills for 4 or 5 years now and you wouldn't believe how often I run into this. Somebody asks if they can join the group and they get an attitude when I ask what their experience is. I get answers like "Enough" or "More than you". It pisses me off more than I can possibly put into words. I NEED to know. There is NOTHING wrong with me asking. We also have several organizers at z-hills working with groups of different experience levels, so I may recommend you go to a different group based on your experience. I ran into one recently where someone asked if they could come and shoot video of my group. I have never met the person so I asked what kind of experience they had. I didn't want just anyone with a camera above my 12-way. He replied "Plenty" I said that was not an acceptable answer and I needed to know. His reply was "hundreds" I almost laughed in his face. Lets face it, hundreds can be 200 or it can be 900. There is a BIG difference there.Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #33 May 2, 2006 QuoteExactly. And so they lose any credibility they might have had.... One would think. But many don't see that."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #34 May 2, 2006 QuoteI have been an organizer at z-hills for 4 or 5 years now and you wouldn't believe how often I run into this. Somebody asks if they can join the group and they get an attitude when I ask what their experience is. I get answers like "Enough" or "More than you". It pisses me off more than I can possibly put into words. Can I jump with you? I'm a decent RW jumper with about 20 hours of coached tunnel time 2600+ jumps, and lots of 4way training at various skill levels over the last few years. I can fall straight down in a sit or HD and occasionally take points too in FF. I've done a few hundred CrW jumps and a about 100 "big ways" (to me that means bigger than 30 or so). Here's the problem - I'm a smartass that likes to know "why" that technique you're explaining works and a simple brush off answer won't do and I won't let it. Not just that I "should" do it that way. And I buy cheap nasty beer, then go off and make mixed drinks for myself. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #35 May 2, 2006 QuoteCan I jump with you? Run Oren, RUN!!!!!!!"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites okalb 104 #36 May 2, 2006 QuoteCan I jump with you? I am gonna have to go with Ron on this one Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #37 May 3, 2006 I agree with the "Just ask" crowd. Anyone with anything worthwhile to add won't mind qualifying their experience. I'd be very leery of simple jump numbers or time in the sport though. While I may have "a lot" of jumps in some people's opinion, I know people with 500 dives and a lot of tunnel time who could skydive rings around me in FS - or freeflying. I also know a lot of senior jumpers with 1000's of dives out of the same aircraft at the same DZ that does GPS spots... who may not be the best people to spot an Otter at a boogie some place else. There are plenty of packers with 1000's and 1000's more pack jobs than me, who pack really well and would be worth listening to dispite having less than 5% my number of jumps. There are those with 25% of the dives but who have experience on canopies I've never even jumped, and I've seen senior jumpers with 1000's of dives given wingsuit 1st flight courses by people with 100's of jumps who had the info they needed. While jump numbers may still mean something to some people, they are little more than an indication of commitment. Who's advice you choose should be based on skillset, not on age in the sport. This sport is constantly growing and changing. In the same way my daughter had to teach my mom how to send an attachment with an e-mail when she was 6, so some senior jumpers need to be taught about new things - like the skyhook, or other things that simply were not around when they were more open to learning. Of course, I think the people who think they know the most will always have between 100 and 500 skydives. I still dream of one day knowing what I thought I knew then! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ACMESkydiver 0 #38 May 3, 2006 QuoteAnd I buy cheap nasty beer, then go off and make mixed drinks for myself. That'll get ya beat down where I come from!! Actually, no, no it won't. But it won't earn you any friends, I know from experience. ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ACMESkydiver 0 #39 May 3, 2006 QuoteWhile jump numbers may still mean something to some people, they are little more than an indication of commitment. Who's advice you choose should be based on skillset, not on age in the sport. That about sums up what many have said in this thread, and the best advice. And I need to remember that it's my life I'm saving after all, and my life is worth being assertive to get the information that I need. QuoteOf course, I think the people who think they know the most will always have between 100 and 500 skydives. I still dream of one day knowing what I thought I knew then! Not so much here. I have 150 jumps, and I think all I know for sure is how to save my own life when falling out of an airplane. One of these days maybe I'll actually get some style. I love getting tips from the smart guys that have been doing this awhile...and sometimes, if they aren't too awful busy, you can get canopy control advice and some really cool 'no shit, there I was' stories thrown in there for free! Most of the more experienced people I've talked with have great teaching skills as well...that's important. You can be brilliant in the air, but have no clue how to effectively share that knowledge with someone else. I love it when I get the 'do this, that will cause 'X' to happen, and you want to do that because...' A full explanation goes so much further than 'you sprained your wirst because your flair sucks'.~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #40 May 3, 2006 QuoteI have 150 jumps, and I think all I know for sure is how to save my own life when falling out of an airplane I have a few more than that, and I don't know for sure how to save my own life. I only have a really good clue. I only bring this point up since Tonto's post was so well written and I wanted to add to it. I have some jumps, Pro rating, AFF, Tandem, SL "I's"...Blah, blah, blah. I still ask for help when doing things I am not good at. When I was playing around with freefly, I went to a FF coach and asked him to check my equipment, clothes, and plan. I like to think I know enough to avoid doing something stupid...But as I like to say everyone that died thought they knew what they were doing as well. Never be afraid to ask, and never be unwilling to answer. Even if that answer is "I don't know.""No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #41 May 4, 2006 QuoteI agree with the "Just ask" crowd. Anyone with anything worthwhile to add won't mind qualifying their experience. I'd be very leery of simple jump numbers or time in the sport though. While I may have "a lot" of jumps in some people's opinion, I know people with 500 dives and a lot of tunnel time who could skydive rings around me in FS - or freeflying. I also know a lot of senior jumpers with 1000's of dives out of the same aircraft at the same DZ that does GPS spots... who may not be the best people to spot an Otter at a boogie some place else. There are plenty of packers with 1000's and 1000's more pack jobs than me, who pack really well and would be worth listening to dispite having less than 5% my number of jumps. There are those with 25% of the dives but who have experience on canopies I've never even jumped, and I've seen senior jumpers with 1000's of dives given wingsuit 1st flight courses by people with 100's of jumps who had the info they needed. While jump numbers may still mean something to some people, they are little more than an indication of commitment. Who's advice you choose should be based on skillset, not on age in the sport. This sport is constantly growing and changing. In the same way my daughter had to teach my mom how to send an attachment with an e-mail when she was 6, so some senior jumpers need to be taught about new things - like the skyhook, or other things that simply were not around when they were more open to learning. Of course, I think the people who think they know the most will always have between 100 and 500 skydives. I still dream of one day knowing what I thought I knew then! t T, Once again, very well put.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #42 May 4, 2006 Memories coming back... A bunch of years back, when I was jumping my old rig, I'd frequently be given "advice" that consisted of stuff I already knew, and had known for several years before the advisee made his first jump. It wasn't bad advice either, but he was making assumptions about my abilities because of the way I looked while walking to the airplane. As a sporadic jumper, I didn't need to hear the advice as much as I needed the chance to put it into practice. However, this guy was part of a group of very talented people who (mostly) only jumped with each other, leaving the lower-experienced folks to teach each other how to fly. Many of my jumps were either solos or small-ways with recent graduates and other low-timers. I was always willing to jump with these guys, but, in return, rarely had a chance to be the least experienced guy on the load. As a result, my learning curve was real slow. The others noticed that, as time went on, I didn't seem to be getting any better, so they were even less interested in having me on the load. The cycle continued... I finally found another DZ and my flying began to improve at a much faster rate. There were times when someone would ask my experience, then plan a dive based on the assumption I was capable, at (fill in the blank - 150, 500, etc.) jumps that I could handle the workload. I would always be honest, explaining that I did not fly well enough to make this dive, but would be happy to give it a shot if they still wanted me on the load. They appreciated my candor. I've never been able to understand why anyone would misrepresent his abilities, experience, etc. But then, there are people who wonder why I'm not afraid to jump a belly band or a round reserve. Oh, well... Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tr027 0 #43 May 4, 2006 Quote A full explanation goes so much further than 'you sprained your wirst because your flair sucks'. Last time I saw you at the dz I didn't happen to notice that you wear flair, otherwise I would've applauded you for wearing all the required items of flair that give the dz a more exciting feel to it (like Chachi's or Chilly's). Hold the phone a minute, I just found another meaning of flair, apparently it's not pieces of decoration worn on a restaurant uniform: n, 1. A natural talent or aptitude; a knack: a flair for interior decorating. Well, that explains it for me... so that sentence meant you can get hurt if your natural talent for parachuting sucks. "The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #44 May 4, 2006 I get this even at low jump numbers. I've got 475 jumps and people will say "You can do this 8 way thing or 4 way no problem, you've got 500 jumps". Well I have about 400 freefly and 75 belly jumps, throw in the gap between my belly jumps and I RW no better than someone with 50 jumps who has gone hardcore in the last few weeks. I have a hard time staying on level and not reaching for grips. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ACMESkydiver 0 #45 May 4, 2006 Kiss my ass Tony, I'm not the only person that ever spelled 'flare' wrong! ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ACMESkydiver 0 #46 May 4, 2006 QuoteMany of my jumps were either solos or small-ways with recent graduates and other low-timers. I was always willing to jump with these guys, but, in return, rarely had a chance to be the least experienced guy on the load. As a result, my learning curve was real slow. The others noticed that, as time went on, I didn't seem to be getting any better, so they were even less interested in having me on the load. The cycle continued... I finally found another DZ and my flying began to improve at a much faster rate. This is EXACTLY what I'm caught in... Well, all except the not having an opportunity to jump with better jumpers. I just am embarrassed about my lack of skill vs what I SHOULD be capable of by now due to so many solos...and I thank them but decline. I don't want to waste anyone's jump money on a jump with me. I really need to change that, though. When I get back in the air (knee injury, other sport, dumb move) I'll make a point to jump WITH someone. Fortunately some of my good buddies that started about the same time I did have been continuing and have coach ratings and such by now, and I can prolly score a jump with them by pulling the 'friend' card. ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #47 May 4, 2006 Quote When I get back in the air (knee injury, other sport, dumb move) I'll make a point to jump WITH someone. Fortunately some of my good buddies that started about the same time I did have been continuing and have coach ratings and such by now, and I can prolly score a jump with them by pulling the 'friend' card. And after that you better (finally) jump with me! Not that I have that much more experience, but we gotta do it anyway. I like to mix it up. I learn different things from the bad-ass, world-class skydivers than I do from the newbies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #48 May 4, 2006 Quote I don't want to waste anyone's jump money on a jump with me. The last few years I jumped I made around 50 jumps a year with people who had less than 100 jumps. Not one time do I feel my money was wasted. All I would ask of them was at some time in the future pass that jump on to someone else with less than 100 jumps.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #49 May 4, 2006 QuoteThe last few years I jumped I made around 50 jumps a year with people who had less than 100 jumps. Not one time do I feel my money was wasted. All I would ask of them was at some time in the future pass that jump on to someone else with less than 100 jumps. Whew! I lucked out and got you just before I hit 100. Guess I woulda been too skilled for you after that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #50 May 4, 2006 QuoteThe last few years I jumped I made around 50 jumps a year with people who had less than 100 jumps. Not one time do I feel my money was wasted Of course not, they were most likely helping you out. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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Ron 10 #33 May 2, 2006 QuoteExactly. And so they lose any credibility they might have had.... One would think. But many don't see that."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 May 2, 2006 QuoteI have been an organizer at z-hills for 4 or 5 years now and you wouldn't believe how often I run into this. Somebody asks if they can join the group and they get an attitude when I ask what their experience is. I get answers like "Enough" or "More than you". It pisses me off more than I can possibly put into words. Can I jump with you? I'm a decent RW jumper with about 20 hours of coached tunnel time 2600+ jumps, and lots of 4way training at various skill levels over the last few years. I can fall straight down in a sit or HD and occasionally take points too in FF. I've done a few hundred CrW jumps and a about 100 "big ways" (to me that means bigger than 30 or so). Here's the problem - I'm a smartass that likes to know "why" that technique you're explaining works and a simple brush off answer won't do and I won't let it. Not just that I "should" do it that way. And I buy cheap nasty beer, then go off and make mixed drinks for myself. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #35 May 2, 2006 QuoteCan I jump with you? Run Oren, RUN!!!!!!!"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okalb 104 #36 May 2, 2006 QuoteCan I jump with you? I am gonna have to go with Ron on this one Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #37 May 3, 2006 I agree with the "Just ask" crowd. Anyone with anything worthwhile to add won't mind qualifying their experience. I'd be very leery of simple jump numbers or time in the sport though. While I may have "a lot" of jumps in some people's opinion, I know people with 500 dives and a lot of tunnel time who could skydive rings around me in FS - or freeflying. I also know a lot of senior jumpers with 1000's of dives out of the same aircraft at the same DZ that does GPS spots... who may not be the best people to spot an Otter at a boogie some place else. There are plenty of packers with 1000's and 1000's more pack jobs than me, who pack really well and would be worth listening to dispite having less than 5% my number of jumps. There are those with 25% of the dives but who have experience on canopies I've never even jumped, and I've seen senior jumpers with 1000's of dives given wingsuit 1st flight courses by people with 100's of jumps who had the info they needed. While jump numbers may still mean something to some people, they are little more than an indication of commitment. Who's advice you choose should be based on skillset, not on age in the sport. This sport is constantly growing and changing. In the same way my daughter had to teach my mom how to send an attachment with an e-mail when she was 6, so some senior jumpers need to be taught about new things - like the skyhook, or other things that simply were not around when they were more open to learning. Of course, I think the people who think they know the most will always have between 100 and 500 skydives. I still dream of one day knowing what I thought I knew then! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #38 May 3, 2006 QuoteAnd I buy cheap nasty beer, then go off and make mixed drinks for myself. That'll get ya beat down where I come from!! Actually, no, no it won't. But it won't earn you any friends, I know from experience. ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #39 May 3, 2006 QuoteWhile jump numbers may still mean something to some people, they are little more than an indication of commitment. Who's advice you choose should be based on skillset, not on age in the sport. That about sums up what many have said in this thread, and the best advice. And I need to remember that it's my life I'm saving after all, and my life is worth being assertive to get the information that I need. QuoteOf course, I think the people who think they know the most will always have between 100 and 500 skydives. I still dream of one day knowing what I thought I knew then! Not so much here. I have 150 jumps, and I think all I know for sure is how to save my own life when falling out of an airplane. One of these days maybe I'll actually get some style. I love getting tips from the smart guys that have been doing this awhile...and sometimes, if they aren't too awful busy, you can get canopy control advice and some really cool 'no shit, there I was' stories thrown in there for free! Most of the more experienced people I've talked with have great teaching skills as well...that's important. You can be brilliant in the air, but have no clue how to effectively share that knowledge with someone else. I love it when I get the 'do this, that will cause 'X' to happen, and you want to do that because...' A full explanation goes so much further than 'you sprained your wirst because your flair sucks'.~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #40 May 3, 2006 QuoteI have 150 jumps, and I think all I know for sure is how to save my own life when falling out of an airplane I have a few more than that, and I don't know for sure how to save my own life. I only have a really good clue. I only bring this point up since Tonto's post was so well written and I wanted to add to it. I have some jumps, Pro rating, AFF, Tandem, SL "I's"...Blah, blah, blah. I still ask for help when doing things I am not good at. When I was playing around with freefly, I went to a FF coach and asked him to check my equipment, clothes, and plan. I like to think I know enough to avoid doing something stupid...But as I like to say everyone that died thought they knew what they were doing as well. Never be afraid to ask, and never be unwilling to answer. Even if that answer is "I don't know.""No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #41 May 4, 2006 QuoteI agree with the "Just ask" crowd. Anyone with anything worthwhile to add won't mind qualifying their experience. I'd be very leery of simple jump numbers or time in the sport though. While I may have "a lot" of jumps in some people's opinion, I know people with 500 dives and a lot of tunnel time who could skydive rings around me in FS - or freeflying. I also know a lot of senior jumpers with 1000's of dives out of the same aircraft at the same DZ that does GPS spots... who may not be the best people to spot an Otter at a boogie some place else. There are plenty of packers with 1000's and 1000's more pack jobs than me, who pack really well and would be worth listening to dispite having less than 5% my number of jumps. There are those with 25% of the dives but who have experience on canopies I've never even jumped, and I've seen senior jumpers with 1000's of dives given wingsuit 1st flight courses by people with 100's of jumps who had the info they needed. While jump numbers may still mean something to some people, they are little more than an indication of commitment. Who's advice you choose should be based on skillset, not on age in the sport. This sport is constantly growing and changing. In the same way my daughter had to teach my mom how to send an attachment with an e-mail when she was 6, so some senior jumpers need to be taught about new things - like the skyhook, or other things that simply were not around when they were more open to learning. Of course, I think the people who think they know the most will always have between 100 and 500 skydives. I still dream of one day knowing what I thought I knew then! t T, Once again, very well put.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #42 May 4, 2006 Memories coming back... A bunch of years back, when I was jumping my old rig, I'd frequently be given "advice" that consisted of stuff I already knew, and had known for several years before the advisee made his first jump. It wasn't bad advice either, but he was making assumptions about my abilities because of the way I looked while walking to the airplane. As a sporadic jumper, I didn't need to hear the advice as much as I needed the chance to put it into practice. However, this guy was part of a group of very talented people who (mostly) only jumped with each other, leaving the lower-experienced folks to teach each other how to fly. Many of my jumps were either solos or small-ways with recent graduates and other low-timers. I was always willing to jump with these guys, but, in return, rarely had a chance to be the least experienced guy on the load. As a result, my learning curve was real slow. The others noticed that, as time went on, I didn't seem to be getting any better, so they were even less interested in having me on the load. The cycle continued... I finally found another DZ and my flying began to improve at a much faster rate. There were times when someone would ask my experience, then plan a dive based on the assumption I was capable, at (fill in the blank - 150, 500, etc.) jumps that I could handle the workload. I would always be honest, explaining that I did not fly well enough to make this dive, but would be happy to give it a shot if they still wanted me on the load. They appreciated my candor. I've never been able to understand why anyone would misrepresent his abilities, experience, etc. But then, there are people who wonder why I'm not afraid to jump a belly band or a round reserve. Oh, well... Cheers, Jon S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tr027 0 #43 May 4, 2006 Quote A full explanation goes so much further than 'you sprained your wirst because your flair sucks'. Last time I saw you at the dz I didn't happen to notice that you wear flair, otherwise I would've applauded you for wearing all the required items of flair that give the dz a more exciting feel to it (like Chachi's or Chilly's). Hold the phone a minute, I just found another meaning of flair, apparently it's not pieces of decoration worn on a restaurant uniform: n, 1. A natural talent or aptitude; a knack: a flair for interior decorating. Well, that explains it for me... so that sentence meant you can get hurt if your natural talent for parachuting sucks. "The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #44 May 4, 2006 I get this even at low jump numbers. I've got 475 jumps and people will say "You can do this 8 way thing or 4 way no problem, you've got 500 jumps". Well I have about 400 freefly and 75 belly jumps, throw in the gap between my belly jumps and I RW no better than someone with 50 jumps who has gone hardcore in the last few weeks. I have a hard time staying on level and not reaching for grips. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #45 May 4, 2006 Kiss my ass Tony, I'm not the only person that ever spelled 'flare' wrong! ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #46 May 4, 2006 QuoteMany of my jumps were either solos or small-ways with recent graduates and other low-timers. I was always willing to jump with these guys, but, in return, rarely had a chance to be the least experienced guy on the load. As a result, my learning curve was real slow. The others noticed that, as time went on, I didn't seem to be getting any better, so they were even less interested in having me on the load. The cycle continued... I finally found another DZ and my flying began to improve at a much faster rate. This is EXACTLY what I'm caught in... Well, all except the not having an opportunity to jump with better jumpers. I just am embarrassed about my lack of skill vs what I SHOULD be capable of by now due to so many solos...and I thank them but decline. I don't want to waste anyone's jump money on a jump with me. I really need to change that, though. When I get back in the air (knee injury, other sport, dumb move) I'll make a point to jump WITH someone. Fortunately some of my good buddies that started about the same time I did have been continuing and have coach ratings and such by now, and I can prolly score a jump with them by pulling the 'friend' card. ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #47 May 4, 2006 Quote When I get back in the air (knee injury, other sport, dumb move) I'll make a point to jump WITH someone. Fortunately some of my good buddies that started about the same time I did have been continuing and have coach ratings and such by now, and I can prolly score a jump with them by pulling the 'friend' card. And after that you better (finally) jump with me! Not that I have that much more experience, but we gotta do it anyway. I like to mix it up. I learn different things from the bad-ass, world-class skydivers than I do from the newbies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #48 May 4, 2006 Quote I don't want to waste anyone's jump money on a jump with me. The last few years I jumped I made around 50 jumps a year with people who had less than 100 jumps. Not one time do I feel my money was wasted. All I would ask of them was at some time in the future pass that jump on to someone else with less than 100 jumps.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #49 May 4, 2006 QuoteThe last few years I jumped I made around 50 jumps a year with people who had less than 100 jumps. Not one time do I feel my money was wasted. All I would ask of them was at some time in the future pass that jump on to someone else with less than 100 jumps. Whew! I lucked out and got you just before I hit 100. Guess I woulda been too skilled for you after that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #50 May 4, 2006 QuoteThe last few years I jumped I made around 50 jumps a year with people who had less than 100 jumps. Not one time do I feel my money was wasted Of course not, they were most likely helping you out. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
