AADs Scare Me

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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>What good does it do to leave it off?

I've been on a few jumps where I was very glad to not have an AAD. On one such jump, me and the other person without an AAD landed fine; the other two people landed hard and almost didn't walk away from the jump.

Oh Do Tell!

[billvon 3,044]

>Oh Do Tell!

Not much to tell; we did something stupid. We exited a lot lower than we expected, tried to do RW anyway (like a bunch of idiots) and broke off too low. I think I started breakoff at 1200 feet. I had taken my Racer instead of my Reflex - not because the Racer didn't have an AAD, but because it had a Nova 150 that slammed open. And I figured that when doing RW from 6000 feet (which later turned into 4000 feet) having a fast opening main was more important than having an AAD.

Side note - two of the other people on the load were a current AFF-I and an S+TA. The AFF-I worried a bit before the jump about the low altitude. If he got low, he said, he would go straight for his reserve. He then pantomined pulling his reserve. We jumped, he went low, he opened his main because he couldn't help himself.

If this guy, who a) was an instructor, b) knew he might go low, c) had decided to open his reserve on that jump if he DID go low, and d) had actually practiced doing it just before the jump could not bring himself to open his reserve instead of his main when he found himself low, I find it unlikely that most people will be able to do that. Hence, I now think that practice with CRW is a lot more important for AAD users than practicing opening your reserve if you get low.

[labrys 0]

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I'll say this anyway - I don't know enough yet to decide one way or the other. The upside seems to be faster deployment and less EP 'workload.'

There is no change in EP workload... learn your EP procedure and execute it, please

Edit to add... redundant procedure beats no procedure

Owned by Remi #?

[kelpdiver 2]

So, Bill, is this really a success story for not turning AADs on, or a failure of following the dive plan?

For a planned 3000ft HnP, what's the gain in turning it off?

[billvon 3,044]

>So, Bill, is this really a success story for not turning AADs on, or a
>failure of following the dive plan?

?? Not a success story at all. A story of several stupid mistakes in a row that fortunately did not result in any serious injuries. I am glad I didn't have an AAD on that jump though.

[johnny1488 1]

I have also been on a jump or 2 that I purposely left my AAD off. But I would hardly call those arguments against AADs.

Like all of skydiving, jump within the limitations of your gear and your gear should treat you right. You're examples are clearly outside the expected limitations of AADs.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[shermanator 4]

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>What good does it do to leave it off?

I've been on a few jumps where I was very glad to not have an AAD. On one such jump, me and the other person without an AAD landed fine; the other two people landed hard and almost didn't walk away from the jump.

Would you explain this please. *curious mind here*

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[Liemberg 0]

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*curious mind here*

I would say any jump where you are taking it to the basement without actually hitting the basement floor.

AAD's are a trade off.

There is a small 'window' (below 1800ft and above 750ft) where it CAN interfere with the opening of the main parachute. Since most of us are creatures of habit, chances are that in one of those "Too Much Fun"-moments where we end up below our minimum opening altitude for the main parachute, we open the main parachute anyway.

AAD's have only limited ways of knowing that we just did that (hint: they get their clue AFTER the opening of the main, not during the pull of a ripcord or the toss of a pilotchute...) Therefore it is possible that on these heights your AAD can fire during your main opening. Two parachutes opening simultaniously could open up a whole new 'can of worms'...

Although modern AAD's are rather good at calculating our height above ground, they are less accurate than most beginners believe. So they are not going to fire @ exactly 2000ft / 1000ft / 750ft but @ "about" these heights.

"Turn it on and forget about it" may make a catchy advertising slogan, but in the real world if you are jumping with an AAD it is a lot smarter to always, always, always keep that in mind.

Two parachutes is preferable over zero parachutes but it can lead to dangerous situations and should be avoided.

YMMV...

"Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci
A thousand words...

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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...The negative side that I see is, what if I am unstable? ...
Zipp0

Zippy... it wouldn't be as negative as smacking the ground without a parachute out.

[Zipp0 1]

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Zippy... it wouldn't be as negative as smacking the ground without a parachute out.

Hmmmm, I see.

So, that's a BAD thing?

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Who's holding book here?

I'd like to buy some shares on Zippo.

[labrys 0]

Is he the first pre-FJC student to have this ummm...honor?

Owned by Remi #?

[chaoskitty 0]

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Here's the thing - If I screw up badly, or have a freakish mal and go in, well, that's how it goes. But in my mind I can see myself under a good canopy, happily floating along, and then WHAM, cypress fires low. For the next few seconds I would be extremely pissed.

It's probably a stupid fear, and I'm sure as soon as I exit the plane I will never think about it.

Zipp0

You're right. I've never thought about my cypres in freefall.

From what you just described.. youre more scared of having too much nylon out than not enough.

Besides, lets say you're under a good canopy at 150 feet and your cypres fires. chances are you're not going to have enough air speed for your reserve to inflate, so it would just fall out of the container and hang below you. It might partially inflate and cause a little instability.. certainly doesnt sound like fun.. but if you're really worried about that, do some research and come up with a plan on how you might handle that situation. Just like you have done for other more common malfunctions.

Not going to tell you to jump an AAD if you dont want to, but I will tell you that before I had 200 jumps, I had seen two cypres saves. Thats two of my friends who would be dead if they didnt jump one.

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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Is he the first pre-FJC student to have this ummm...honor?

That means HE owes beer... right!??!

[labrys 0]

Exactly

Owned by Remi #?

[skydivermom 0]

***As a student on IAD, what is going to knock me out?
__________________________________________________

I was just off the static line and I smacked my nose on the step of the Cessna. I'm really not sure if it's possible to be knocked out from that, but it was pretty frightening.

Mrs. WaltAppel

All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28

[SwampThing 0]

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I just HATE introducing a machine that I cannot control into the formula that saves my life every jump. Is this an unreasonable fear?

I guess I'd just rather rely totally on myself than on a machine.

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Do a search:
"Tom Piras"

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[Zipp0 1]

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Who's holding book here?

I'd like to buy some shares on Zippo.

Let me be sure I follow you - are you trying to place a bet on me dying?

Zipp0

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[billvon 3,044]

>Would you explain this please. *curious mind here*

See above. Four low deployments, two with AAD's, two without. The two low deployments had cypres fires. One downplaned (but he walked away) and the other cut the main away but it snagged his reserve as it was leaving.

[airtwardo 7]

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Who's holding book here?

I'd like to buy some shares on Zippo.

Let me be sure I follow you - are you trying to place a bet on me dying?

Zipp0

***

No way...betting is illegal!

They just buck up for shares in a life insurance policy...

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Zipp0 1]

Just as a follow-up, I have to say that my fear was misplaced.

There is quite a perspective change when you go from a wuffo with no jumps to someone who has actually let go of an airplane. Having experienced a bit of sensory overload on that first jump, I can see where the AAD could save the life of a new jumper, or an experienced jumper for that matter. I'd like to think that if something would have went wrong, I would have had the presence of mind to cut away, but until you are in that situation, there is really no way to be certain. All you can do is review your EP's and keep your cool as best you can.

So, AAD's no longer scare me - there are plenty of other things to worry about.

Blue Skies,

Zipp0

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[NWFlyer 2]

Glad you came back and posted this. Keep that open mind and humility in place as you go through your skydiving career and you've just greatly improved your chances of survival.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[airtwardo 7]

So, AAD's no longer scare me - there are plenty of other things to worry about.


***

Glad you had a good time and things worked out.

After three decades in the sport, the one thing I know for sure is...
The more I learn, the more I realize I 'don't' know about skydiving!

Sounds like you're finding that out too!

Keep your eyes and ears open...be safe!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~