flare height

[leslieb 0]

So I'm just not seeing it. I'm at almost 50 jumps now, and can't tell the difference between 10ft and 20ft. I've been looking about 45 degrees out, any other suggestions?

[billvon 3,031]

1) When you can see individual blades of grass (for most people over most landing areas) that's about 10 feet.

2) If there's a structure nearby that's about 10 feet tall, wait until the back of the roof almost disappears (if it's a flat roof that is!)

3) You can do the same trick with trees, if most of the trees are the same height.

[Zipp0 1]

Are you flaring early, late, or just generally inconsistent? Have you been far enough off to get hurt, or just not standing up your landings?

Zipp0

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[quade 4]

Quote

So I'm just not seeing it. I'm at almost 50 jumps now, and can't tell the difference between 10ft and 20ft. I've been looking about 45 degrees out, any other suggestions?

At your DZ or near your house are there any places where you can stand and just see what 10ft or 20ft looks like?

Start at ground level. Take a look around. Notice where the tops of people's heads are in relationship to the surrounding area and horizon.

Find some place that's 10ft high...maybe just climb a flight of stairs or stand on bleachers or climb on top of a building. Take another look around. Take your time. Observe.

Find another place that's maybe 20 feet high.

Take the time to really just look out over the area.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[leslieb 0]

I guess inconsistent. My first few were ok. Then the were consistently too high, then my last too low. Nothing has been broken if that's what you mean about hurt. But I've definitly been put out for a few weeks at a time.

[jonjonson 0]

I am a beginner but, I always look at the horizon, or a roof top. also what really helped me is watching point of view landings on skydivemovies.com

maybe pause the videos and get an idea of the last 20 feet before landing.

[peregrinerose 0]

When I was at the height I was about 4 feet higher than being able to kick my husband in the head (He was usually on the ground before me), it was time to flare He still doesn't know I used that to figure out flare heights.

Want to borrow my husband?

I have just under 200 jumps... so what I think doesn't mean shit. That's just what worked for me.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[georgerussia 0]

I opened similar topic in Safety and Training forum http://dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2202636 - you may want to check it too.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Fast 0]

One thing that many people forget is that a flare is not a 'OH SHIT MUST FLARE NOW JAM TOGGLES DOWN OH MY GOD" type of thing. It really isn't. Landing is a dynamic thing. You can't take all day long to accomplish it because the ground will come up but you don't have to wait wait wait and rush it out. How you land depends on the canopy but for most modern ZP canopies flaring is a dynamic and ever changing thing. You do need to learn what height looks about right. Look out in front of you more if you think that might help. Being fixated on any angle isn't going to help you. If 45 doesn't work, look out a little farther. Depending on your canopy, 45 degrees might still be before the point you are going to land and that wont give you a good sight picture for when to flare. When you start flaring everything will start to slow down but that doesn't mean you can start thinking slower, keep thinking fast and evaluate where you are. "Am I high?" stop giving input. "Am I low?" More input "Just right?" Ride it out then give more input.

If you know what to do when you start high or low you can pull it off. Just don't stop thinking after you start pushing toggles down. That might be hard to do if you havne't worked on this second point. Don't be afraid of the ground, you should respect it but if you are coming in to land scared out of your mind your going to have a more difficult time learning to land. Respect the ground, it can hurt you, but don't be afraid of it. If you are afraid your going to forget to think and just react. That won't get you good landings. Though it will probally get you on the ground.


bottom line is, be ready to plf, keep thinking, practice what different types of flares feel like up high (feel it in the preasure on your legs) and get someone to video your landings and then explain them to you.

Have fun, fly safe!

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[isaiah85 0]

What kind of canopy are you flying? It might not be all you, it might just not be the right canopy for you.

I've helped hundreds of people find the canopy that is right for them, one thing I find is, people that have trouble timing their flare generally get a good amount of ground rush when coming in, around the last 20-30'. One of the biggest things I find to combat this is to put them under a canopy that is trimmed much flatter. Generally I see this problem on canopies that are trimmed pretty steep (Sabre2, Original PD's, etc...). Sometimes people who will recommend a canopy don't know what is best for you and your experience and what your individual frame of reference is.

An example of a flat gliding canopy is a Silhouette, Spectre...

I'm not saying this is definitely the solution just one thing to consider if your flying a canopy with a relatively steep glide angle.

I'm not a big fan of waiting until you can see the blades of grass or looking at a building, unless you can take your building every place you ever want to (or have to) land, or there is no grass.

Hope this helps,
Isaiah

[LisaH 0]

What if you jump in the desert. Any suggestions for that?

Be yourself!
MooOOooOoo

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

What if you jump in the desert. Any suggestions for that?

Yeah. Don't wait until you can see individual grains of sand.

[LisaH 0]

Thanks for the advice

Be yourself!
MooOOooOoo

[shropshire 0]

When the people look like ants.... you're still too high...... when the ants look like people.... FLARE

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[popsjumper 2]

Fast said it...
"One thing that many people forget is that a flare is not a 'OH SHIT MUST FLARE NOW JAM TOGGLES DOWN OH MY GOD" type of thing. It really isn't. Landing is a dynamic thing. "

Fly the thing ALL THE WAY TO THE GROUND.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[quade 4]

Quote

Fast said it...
"One thing that many people forget is that a flare is not a 'OH SHIT MUST FLARE NOW JAM TOGGLES DOWN OH MY GOD" type of thing. It really isn't. Landing is a dynamic thing. "

Fly the thing ALL THE WAY TO THE GROUND.

Dynamic huh . . . hmmm, where have I heard that term before?

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=20

Oh . . . yeah.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[leslieb 0]

Well, I am flying a spectre. It's a 170, and I'm 135 out the door. I practice up high, I know where I plane out and when to start finishing it. I'm afraid to go to a higher wingloading because of my crashing problem. I used to use the objects as a frame of reference thing, and that worked, but I was discouraged to use that because I should really learn how to judge height otherwise. All other aspects of canopy are prety good, just that final 3-5
seconds.

[peregrinerose 0]

On another thread when I started jumping, someone recommended going to a mall and riding the escalator to help learn to judge height from a moving object. It wasn't a bad idea.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Thanatos340 1]

Flare on the third "OH Shit!!".

Seriously.. Talk to your instructors. They should be able to help you much more than anyone here and possibly give you reference points at your DZ.

[anewempire 0]

i have 55 jumps and amazingly i've never had a landing that i haven't stood up (although i'm getting ot the point where instead of running off one every now and then i might just start falling down since it's easier ha). i have no clue about how high i am but i can judge it fine. whenever that time comes i always go straight to half flare and that will start levelling me out and then right as my feet are about to hit the ground i go straight to full flare and it just glides out usually so i just slide my feet and try not to stand until i'm basically stopped. so yeah, the half flare before full flare has worked great for me. it's safe too cause if i'm too high then i can just hold it but if i'm too low then i can easily just pull the flare down even farther to brake faster.

[LisaH 0]

Is it wrong for me to want to slide in and sit down everytime because it feels safer?

Be yourself!
MooOOooOoo

[bob.dino 1]

Quote

Is it wrong for me to want to slide in and sit down everytime because it feels safer?

It can be dangerous to your spine. Do a Search, there's been a number of informative discussions on the subject in the past...

[LisaH 0]

I'm new here, how do you search?

Be yourself!
MooOOooOoo

[bob.dino 1]

Quote

I'm new here, how do you search?

Up near the top of the page, there's a link named "Search Posts". Click on it, enter some search terms such as "landing" or "butt slide" and have a read of the results...

[LearningTOfly 0]

When you're on the approach, try to 'defocus' your vision- don't look at a single point on the ground, as you may get tunnel vis- instead, take in all visual cues that are in front of you. Practice the techniques at home- its sort of a case of focusing your eyes on a far point, and then specifically ingnoring that point, and seeing everything else in your field of vision. This way, you get the 'big picture' and you can really see how youre moving, and what your rate of change is, and thereafter, how to time the flare. Practice it at home or in the car, then try it for a landing if you feel comfy with it. Just an option, do what you will- stay safe.

Another note on the flare... think of trying to not land, while you are landing. Flare progressively to keep flying- streching out the glide at three or four feet off the ground- or in reality: really close to the ground but not touching it. This way you dissipate most energy in the air as opposed to when you contact terra firmer.