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Here is how the ego creates the "story" that escalates our response into full-blown negative affect (fear):
It's my first jump. I am riding to altitude, uncomfortable in the gear, squished by the legs of others, unsettled by the sound of the engines.
My muscles contract. My blood vessels constrict. My heart has to work harder due to the increased resistance caused by state-specific high blood pressure. The rate of my heartbeat increases. My fists clench and my palms sweat.
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This is the low level physical reaction. Fear has triggered adreneline which has started affecting on the body
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I fidget around, and my eyes look around wildly, not really focusing on anything in particular.
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This is failing to recognize fear, and failing to start dealing with it, letting it start to run away with your mind. The bodies default response is subconcious, irrational, and hysterical. Unless you take control of it, it will take control of you. This is why one must be prepared to maintain control of ones self. Otherwise the body will take control, a more primitive survival mechanism, and the mind will go bye-bye.
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All this is the somatic response to perceived danger. This is the process referred to as the "James-Lange Theory". My mind is driven by my body. By body is reacting in a stereotypical manner, and is spiraling down into a panic state.
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The goal should be to steer that drive rather than to fight or subcome to it.
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My mind notices what is happening. My mind sees the state of the body, and interprets the situation as dire, and out of control. I begin seeing danger where there is none.
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Starting to lose rational control
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I am in "self-protection mode". I want to preserve my own life, but have found myself without contexually appropriate coping mechanisms. I am off the map. All I can think of is the fact that I am in unfamiliar circumstances, and that I do not know what to do. My mind races, but has nothing specific to chew on.
I see problems, rather than solutions. I see myself as unable to expect what is going to happen next. I retreat inside my thinking, and my body remains in control of the situation.
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Houston, rational control has been lost!
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My neo-cortex begins to shut down. My visceral awareness of where my limbs are, and what is happening inside my body becomes diminished, and the horse is out of the barn, running for the fence. My access to the knowledge that I learned in the calmer state (in the classroom) is lost. I am drifting toward a waterfall without a paddle.
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Hystrical catatonia, fear frozen stiff, the mind has gone somewhere else.
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So tell me again how fear is a good thing for skydivers?
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You seem to be combining what I described as fear and an unrestrained reaction to fear together and calling that fear. Such a combination lacks a good point in regards to skydiving. This is however how the mind suppresses memories of an overwhelming event, and unless one is falling from the sky, it functions to help the psychi survive by insulating it from an otherwise seemingly uncontrollable situation.
This is fear allowed to run wild. My point is that through mental training one can hopefully avoid letting things get that far out of hand, just as through physical training one can hopefully avoid letting a malfunction get too far out of hand.
Thus, one needs to know what to do about malfunctions, and one needs to know what to do about fear, because they both happen.
Am I making any sense here?
ryoder 1,590
My muscles contract. My blood vessels constrict. My heart has to work harder due to the increased resistance caused by state-specific high blood pressure. The rate of my heartbeat increases. My fists clench and my palms sweat. I fidget around, and my eyes look around wildly, not really focusing on anything in particular.
All this is the somatic response to perceived danger. This is the process referred to as the "James-Lange Theory". My mind is driven by my body. By body is reacting in a stereotypical manner, and is spiraling down into a panic state.
My mind notices what is happening. My mind sees the state of the body, and interprets the situation as dire, and out of control. I begin seeing danger where there is none.
I am in "self-protection mode". I want to preserve my own life, but have found myself without contexually appropriate coping mechanisms. I am off the map. All I can think of is the fact that I am in unfamiliar circumstances, and that I do not know what to do. My mind races, but has nothing specific to chew on.
I see problems, rather than solutions. I see myself as unable to expect what is going to happen next. I retreat inside my thinking, and my body remains in control of the situation.
My neo-cortex begins to shut down. My visceral awareness of where my limbs are, and what is happening inside my body becomes diminished, and the horse is out of the barn, running for the fence. My access to the knowledge that I learned in the calmer state (in the classroom) is lost. I am drifting toward a waterfall without a paddle.
Well, I'll be damned! Brian, you just described my first date!
![;) ;)](/uploads/emoticons/wink.png)
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Well, I'll be damned! Brian, you just described my first date!
LOL, exactly, its all about stress management. The same techniques apply to any stress causing situation. Breath control, meditation and visualizations are being used to improve the performance of corporate officers to pro basketball players.
Psychocybernetics and Raja(mental)yoga are among the things I have studies for this.
You have to be able to fly your mind through the fear stream, as well as your body through the air stream
![;) ;)](/uploads/emoticons/wink.png)
Even with all this effort I still lose the ability to speak coherently and tend to drool in the presence of beautiful women
![[:/] [:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png)
Actually, I'm better than that now, I can get a few words out at a time, although I still carry a hankerchief just in case
![:) :)](/uploads/emoticons/smile.png)
Avion 0
From my studies in physics, I have acquired the skill of investigating a non-observabable factor through the observable reactions it causes in other things.
Accordingly, I hold fear to be a non-observable factor and the the measurable physical quantities and disorientation you described as reactions to that non-observable factor.
Although I maintain a different perspective than the James-Lange Theory, it is good to talk with someone that is rational and conversant about the foundations of their opinion rather than just being a butthead.
Aside from our difference in the definition of fear, our approaches to dealing with it are similar, even if yours are more well defined
![:) :)](/uploads/emoticons/smile.png)
There have been some excellent responses in this thread, I have enjoyed reading all of them. Since I have over an hour and a half in the tunnel my fear concering my first jump is about equipment failure and landing errors. That is to say, I need some more confidance in the dependability of the equipment and my ability to land a canopy.
My fear was most intense when I realized that I now had sufficient ability to maneuver in free fall, and realized I was clueless about how to land. I know about the landing pattern, but somehow that fails to provide any comfort. I probably made this worse by reading the incidents forum for months in order to understand what could go wrong.
It has been interesting feeling how my fear has changed, as I have gained knowledge, from freefalling to landing over the course of being a complete newbie to being able to belly (Mantis Rocks) and back fly. I'm still working on back flying actually
![:$ :$](/uploads/emoticons/blush.png)
Cheers...
I still hate the door but had to find a way to deal with it. It started with getting for warning to when the door was going to open. JM would turn and say in about 30 seconds the door will open. After this going on for several jumps. Becoming more involved with checking my equipment I became more comfrotable. It went to what am I doing this for, I can't do this to...You did this how many times before? You and your instructor checked over your gear you know it is fine.
Still hate the door but no warnings anymore and when that good all door opens I just tell myself. You can do it, you have done it and you love this once your in the air.
The more exposure I got to the door the better it became. I more or less got used to the fear and it calmed down to an extent that I could deal with it.
I also had fear of being off radio. What if I did something wrong. I flared at 30 feet and really scared myself even thou I could have stood that landing up.
A few jumps after that they were ready to pull me off radio and I fought with them. I got to keep the radio and guess what...All of a sudden they are telling me jokes and singing to me...Still wouldn't give it up even thou I was doing it on my own. Then this weekend I kissed it good-bye...Jumped in the snow...Lost sight of the airport and couldn't find it...Made a decision to find an out found a nice big field and landed. (During landing pattern in field did find airport again) All on my own. Got back to hanger said didn't want the radio anymore. They knew I was going to land in the field and didn't say anything!!! They could have helped!!! But then again it was jump 20...Because they didn't say anything and I did it all on my own I gave it up. If they would have helped out I would probably still be reaching for the radio.
In this case I think it is fear in the form of lack of confidence and when put to the test and found out I could and had done it on my own I found that confidnce and realized I could handle it.
Well, that's just my fear story's and how I handled them.
Still do hate that door, but no longer fear it.
Punky Monkey
You may never get rid of the butterflies, but you can teach them how to fly in formation
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Punky Monkey
You may never get rid of the butterflies, but you can teach them how to fly in formation
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That's sweet
![B| B|](/uploads/emoticons/cool.png)
Punky Monkey
You may never get rid of the butterflies, but you can teach them how to fly in formation
Vertifly 0
And that's how i do it.
![:) :)](/uploads/emoticons/smile.png)
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WrongWay 0
Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.
I learned to funnel fear early on. If fear is an emotion, which I believe that it is, then i can re-focus that emotion on my physical gear. Hence the more afraid that i become, the more safe that i am.
And that's how i do it.
We deal with fear in two ways:
1) Manipulation of Perceived Ability, which involves addressing control issues. Gear checks, knowing the spot, and staying aware of our surroundings is how we increase our perceived ability to handle the situation.
2) Direct manipulation of our arousal level. This means consciously calming ourselves down through Ujaia breathing, decreasing our musclular contraction, and de-escalating our overall emotional response.
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Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com
Relax ... and just go with the dive flow.
Relax ... aaaaah and just do it.
Relax. Yes, relaxation IS the key.
Don't relax to the point that you forget to look at your altimeter, but do relax and breathe and realize why it is that you returned. There has got to be something fun about it don't you think?
Keep us posted on how your progression continues if it does. We've all been there at the door and after a while we just keep going back.
Don't give up. Relax.
Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say."
Croc 0
Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy
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Brian claims, according to the theory he supports, that there is a underlying universal arousal factor that is then turned into a specific emotion by the minds interpretation of the context of the situation. It is a more complex generalized perspective.
When the mind interpretets danger, the universal arousal is turned into fear, "given an affective tone" of fear.
He then goes on to apply fairly standard stress management techniques to deal with it: Breath control, visualization/medetation, being attentive to your gear and surroundings.
I also use my own combination standard stress management techniques, taken from both old and new disiplines: Raja Yoga and Psychocybernetics etc...
Our approaches to fear abatement apparently differ only in the defination of fear itself. We both then use similar standard techniques to deal with it.
His perspective of fear is interesting and new to me, I have been giving it some thought lately and will probably research it more thoroughly.
I follow the keep it simple approach. So, I like to keep my fundimental definitions and techniques so simple that even my subconcious can understand them. These may appear, to those who think truth has to be complicated, to be too simple.
So the question that remains in my mind is that, is there practical value to be gained by defining fear as he does when his resulting techniques for dealing with fear are so similar to standard approaches.
I am tending to doubt there is any additional value to be gained in regards to skydiving, however it may be useful to better understanding emotion in general. That's what I will be giving the thought to
![:) :)](/uploads/emoticons/smile.png)
arni999 0
Happy Jumping
![B| B|](/uploads/emoticons/cool.png)
Mikey
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Fear Is Weakness Leaving Your Body
It's my first jump. I am riding to altitude, uncomfortable in the gear, squished by the legs of others, unsettled by the sound of the engines.
My muscles contract. My blood vessels constrict. My heart has to work harder due to the increased resistance caused by state-specific high blood pressure. The rate of my heartbeat increases. My fists clench and my palms sweat. I fidget around, and my eyes look around wildly, not really focusing on anything in particular.
All this is the somatic response to perceived danger. This is the process referred to as the "James-Lange Theory". My mind is driven by my body. By body is reacting in a stereotypical manner, and is spiraling down into a panic state.
My mind notices what is happening. My mind sees the state of the body, and interprets the situation as dire, and out of control. I begin seeing danger where there is none.
I am in "self-protection mode". I want to preserve my own life, but have found myself without contexually appropriate coping mechanisms. I am off the map. All I can think of is the fact that I am in unfamiliar circumstances, and that I do not know what to do. My mind races, but has nothing specific to chew on.
I see problems, rather than solutions. I see myself as unable to expect what is going to happen next. I retreat inside my thinking, and my body remains in control of the situation.
My neo-cortex begins to shut down. My visceral awareness of where my limbs are, and what is happening inside my body becomes diminished, and the horse is out of the barn, running for the fence. My access to the knowledge that I learned in the calmer state (in the classroom) is lost. I am drifting toward a waterfall without a paddle.
So tell me again how fear is a good thing for skydivers?
+
Keynote Speaking:www.TranscendingFEAR.com
Canopies and Courses:www.BIGAIRSPORTZ.com
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