How do Spec.Ops do it?

[skrovi 0]

I guess I've been thinkin too much lately but still I'll ask away. I know there are quite a few accomplished/experienced civilian and ex- military jumpers here, so they may shed some light on this. On one of the episodes on Discovery channel on HALO -free fall warriers, (which BTW, I really enjoyed watching) they said military jumpers jump from 25K -30K feet or higher altitudes at night in foreign territories.
Question is we civilian/sport skydivers need so many factors to be condusive (at least at my level of experience) to be able to skydive like spoting, cloud cover, weather, wind speeds, LZ conditions, lighting conditions and so on and on. How do they (Spec. Ops) pull off their jump at night from those altitudes in a landing area which no one has been before (assuming Sepc. Ops are covert and they are the first ones on ground). My question is from a skydiving perspective. If some of above mentioned conditions do not favour do they still jump? or no matter what green light and your a#s is out of the door type of deal. I do realize that they are aided with far superior technology in terms of precision GPS coordinates or satellite terrain maps etc. What got me thinking is, HALO is just their mode to infiltrate so what goes on during their skydiving part of their operation?. I did some searching on the web did not find the info. I was looking for so figured I'll post here.
I've a friend who is ex- 82 airborne and he said he has absolutely no idea how they do it.
thanks,

[riggerrob 643]

Spec Ops use HALO and HAHO as an infiltrate because then their airplane looks like a regular cargo flight on the enemy's radar.
Yes, HALO is more dangerous - than regular sport skydiving - but is still less dangerous than an angry welcoming committee armed with knives, pistols, submachine guns, assault rifles, sniper rifles, rocket launchers, light machine guns, medium machine guns, heavy machine guns, mortars, artillery, armoured cars, tanks, helicopter gunships, etc.

[quade 4]

The answer is obvious . . . I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rjoseph14k 0]

They use docile gear, GPS, night vision, and jump into a favorable landing zones and hump to their objective. I saw it once on JAG or was NCIS oohhhh I cant remember

[Spatula 0]

And too add to the amazing feet these genetlemen accomplish. After what, 40-60 jumps @ HALO school, they're ready to go? My best friend is a PJ and I have nothing but respect for what they (all special forces) do/and have done.

[Andy_Copland 0]

I was looking at civilian HALO jumps out of curiosity and saw something about windburn being a factor, i wonder what the hell thats all about...

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Reginald 0]

And remember their idea of acceptable losses is differnt than sport jumpers.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[Acoisa 0]

I checked and there will be a rerun or at least a documentary of the 101st training on discovery channel on may 2nd at 1900 et. Can anyone record that and maybe share it over skype or emule?

[SWATcop 0]

Except for a very very few, no one jumps in the 101st anymore. They are what they call Air assault (helicopter riders). All American Infantry Units have a Long Range Surveillance Unit and some of them are usually HALO qualified.

I spent seven years on active duty and the last three in the 82nd Airborne Division. That type of jumping is totally different than HALO. Round T-10C canopy, weighed down with heavy equipment and weapons, 800 other guys in the air with you, jumping from 800 ft AGL (500 in combat). I can tell you from experience that on night training jumps landing on the DZ does not always happen and there are ALWAYS broken bones and injuries on nearly every jump.

I learned to Skydive at the Green Beret Sport Parachute Club at Ft Bragg. All of my instructors were HALO instructors in their day job. My student rig was an OD green ex HALO rig with a main ripcord that looked the same as the reserve ripcord and leg strap pads (none). LOL. SkymonkeyONE
could probably answer your question since he is still around those guys on a regular basis.

Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

[JohnMitchell 16]

I'm strictly a civilian jumper, but a friend of mine, retired SF, 20 years, and very good civilian jumper, said being on a HALO team seemed, to him, to be the most dangerous thing he ever did in the military, and he did a lot of things.

[LouDiamond 1]

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If some of above mentioned conditions do not favour do they still jump? or no matter what green light and your a#s is out of the door type of deal.

Like all military jumps, the jumpmaster is overall responsible for putting people out of the aircraft safely. If I cannot identify the DZ or feel it is unsafe for the jumpers to exit, I will not give them the command to exit. Which is also why a jumpmaster will some times recalcualte the winds based off the readings from the cockpit to ensure that everything is as accurate as possible to ensure the right HARP(high altitude release point)

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HALO is just their mode to infiltrate so what goes on during their skydiving part of their operation?.

HALO/SCUBA, its all a means of infiltration to get to the fight, not the mission itself. When we are in freefall we have far more going on in our minds than how many points we can turn. Most are already on the ground in their minds and going through the plan. The space between the aircraft and the ground is time that is best used for staying within visual contact of one another and ensuring we are going to the right landing area among other things.For some it is trying to keep the 100+ lbs of rucksack and other shit you have strapped to you from spinning you uncontrolably accross the sky.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[mjosparky 4]

They do it with very specialized equipment and training.

http://www.paraflite.com/Personnel%20Ram%20Air%20Systems.htm

http://www.paraflite.com/Parachutist%20Oxygen%20Systems.htm

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jmidgley 0]

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And remember their idea of acceptable losses is differnt than sport jumpers.

You reckon? Reading the incidents forum sometimes makes me wonder...

John

[Reginald 0]

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And remember their idea of acceptable losses is differnt than sport jumpers.

You reckon? Reading the incidents forum sometimes makes me wonder...

John

I know what you mean.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[steve1 5]

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I learned to Skydive at the Green Beret Sport Parachute Club at Ft Bragg. reply]

Is this club still in operation? I remember drinking a beer or two in that bar on Smoke Bomb hill. I recall looking at all the pictures on the walls and thinking someday I'm going to do this. I almost bought a para-commander from an S.F. Sargent there, who was going to Nam.

And oh yes, I do remember equipment jumps at night. On two I never saw the ground. Just crashed in with all my equipment. One night an entire stick went into the trees. Lot's of injuries. Sometimes high winds.

Never went to Halo school. Gees, I wish I could have done that. I was really "Gun Ho" back then....Steve1

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[SWATcop 0]

I just got back into skydiving after a ten year break. I am no longer in the Army. According to SkymonkeyOne who is still there, the Green Beret Club and the 82nd Freefall Club are or have merged into one. There were some great instructors up there. I learned to skydive from Greg Offhaus and Fred Graub. I heard Greg is still there. I may stop by and say hello next month when I go up for "All American Week".

Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

[skrovi 0]

"entire stick" - I figure its you jump team/unit right?. any reason why its called a stick

[GQ_jumper 4]

They use docile gear, GPS, night vision,

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We do have night vision on some of the HAHO's, but don't use it very extensively, and GPS we don't use at all(some units may utilize it under canopy but we haven't). As mentioned before we calculate the winds to find the release point which the aircraft navigator gets us to and flips on the green light, the JM will try to match the spot on the ground but from 30K at night that's not too easy. We do a thorough map recon before we jump, everyone on the team will know exactly what every terrain feature we fly over will look like so if they get seperated from the group the can use the compass mounted on their chest along with terrain recognition to get where they need to be. As far as knowing where the ground is, first you have to hope that we got the right information in terms of DZ altitude so we knew how to set our alti's, and then the trick is at 500 feet put your feet and knees together and just above 250 go to half brakes and get ready to PLF and land like a sack of shit!! It's a blessing on night jumps when you have equipment because when you lower it and go to half brakes you can feel it hit the ground and finish your flare to soften the landing.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[GQ_jumper 4]

entire stick" - I figure its you jump team/unit right?. any reason why its called a stick

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a stick is one pass, they don't always keep teams cohesive, you are put in a jump order that will hopefully get you close to where you need to be on the objective.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[skrovi 0]

figured I'll share this videos url links of HALO, HAHO

HALO footage:

http://www.secretarmies.com/halo.html

HAHO footage:

http://www.secretarmies.com/haho.html

Edited by slotperfect to make the links clicky

[sgt_ludy 0]

HALO jumps are the easy part. Stay close together in freefall, stack up with help of NVG and IR-Sticks under canopy, land in LZ that should be not too far underneath you.

HAHO are much more dangerous and prone to error and misjudgment. Relying on precise wind info´s on different heights you calculate your exit point and lots of other points. Depending on what plane (=exit speed) we´re using, we either go with static line deployment (c-130, etc...) or 3 secs. of freefall. We stack up under canopy again with the help of NVG´s and then fly relying only on GPS and Map info´s to our LZ. There is absolutely NO WAY that the jump master, pilot or whoever could identifie the LZ at an altitude of 30.000ft (O2) at night and over clouds at a horizontal distance of 30 to 40 km. Difficult part is to hold the very close formation till landing and to fly without visual informations of your surrounding (in clouds / night), just trusting the GPS.

have fun.

[LouDiamond 1]

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There is absolutely NO WAY that the jump master, pilot or whoever could identifie the LZ at an altitude of 30.000ft (O2) at night and over clouds at a horizontal distance of 30 to 40 km.

I think the KEY word and limiting factor here is OVER CLOUDS. Having JM'd a 26.5K jump, at night, full combat load, I was still able to ID my HARP and the PI during run in. It's not easy if the weather is not cooperating but it is doable. I don't know any JM worth his salt that would blindly give his guys the go signal at 30k without knowing where they were over the ground one way or another just because the green light came on.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[sgt_ludy 0]

yeah, but i´m talking about a dark LZ (no lights) with the size half of a soccer field, surrounded by wood / trees. sometimes i´m not even 100% sure if i´m on the right LZ even after i´ve landed, cause i don´t see it until 900ft above ground. maybe one could spot the area where the LZ is supposed to be, but i´ve never SEEN the actual LZ during a HAHO/night run in. HALO yes, but not HAHO.

as a small team mainly deploying from small planes (i.e. Porter) we don´t have a jumpmaster with the simple reason that there is no place (except in the herc...)and we´re not relying on the pilots green light. i´m exiting first when my GPS shows that i´m over exit point.
the c-130 is great. as a jumper i have half of the worries, because i can trust the pilots information and just confirm with my gps.
i´d love to have an experienced jumpmaster to spot for me, but we just have c-130 loadmasters.

[BIGUN 1,312]

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I was still able to ID my HARP and the PI during run in. It's not easy if the weather is not cooperating but it is doable. I don't know any JM worth his salt that would blindly give his guys the go signal at 30k without knowing where they were over the ground one way or another just because the green light came on.

Do the HALO teams never use CARP and just go?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Orange1 0]

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and then the trick is at 500 feet put your feet and knees together and just above 250 go to half brakes and get ready to PLF and land like a sack of shit!! It's a blessing on night jumps when you have equipment because when you lower it and go to half brakes you can feel it hit the ground and finish your flare to soften the landing.

What size canopies (WL) would you typically use on these jumps?

And out of interest, do any military SL jumpers still jump rounds these days or is everyone on squares now?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.