Opening riser covers for hop-n-pops

[LearningTOfly 0]

Is the general consensus that it's preferrable to open the riser covers of a (thoroughly) freefly friendly container prior to a hop-n-pop?

I was thinking about it, and imagine that if you have stiff riser covers, and they're closed on a h/p, and you manage to have a malfunction- like a baglock, specifically- the mess might not have enough drag to separate cleanly after cutaway (due to 'low' speeds- I don't know if it'd be a factor though at 80 mph instead of 120) ...leading to other potential complications.

Thoughts?

[dmetz 0]

I've heard of people doing that when throwing right out door, like when doing CRW. But on most h-n-ps I give myself enough time to get near terminal; at least enough to not worry about it. I'm sure you'll get both sides from more experienced folks than you and I.

I recently tossed right out the door, and ended up with some massive twists. Riser covers could have a factor I suppose, but I don't know.

_________________________________________

"If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?"

[riggerrob 643]

The practice - of opening riser covers - started with canopy formation competitors.
Since most of them over-stuff their containers with heavily reinforced canopies, huge steering toggles, etc. they have the ugliest rigs on the DZ, with "stuff" bulging out every corner.
Specialized CF rigs are available from Jump Shack, Rigging Innovations, etc. but most CF competitors are too poor to afford them.

When I worked at Rigging Innovations (1994 to 1997) we built a set of specialized '94 Talons for the Ghost Riders CF Team. CF-specific options included: extra-wide main riser covers with special angles and extra stiffeners, weight pockets in the back pad, huge steering toggles, etc. After they left the factory, the Ghost Riders modified their main risers to include dive blocks, etc.

[crazydiver 0]

I think the biggest reason for doing this is to simply decrease wear and tear on your rig. the weight of your body should be able to open the stiffeners and if it can't, you might consider getting another container. But I think mostly opening them simply prolongs the life of the riser covers.

Cheers,
Travis

[tbrown 26]

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I think the biggest reason for doing this is to simply decrease wear and tear on your rig. the weight of your body should be able to open the stiffeners and if it can't, you might consider getting another container. But I think mostly opening them simply prolongs the life of the riser covers.

Don't change ANYTHING about your normal packjob, assuming you're doing the packing. You're not going to "wear your rig out" doing a few extra hop & pops. If your rig is showing signs of wear, get it fixed. We are responsible for our own gear maintenance and we pay pay the price for ignoring it.

I routinely do short hop & pops with a Javelin with riser tabs. I throw my p/c as soon as I'm clear of the plane and on the hill, with no problem at all. It's fun having your main deploy straight out behind you and then swinging back under it as it shakes itself out. Your pilot chute has more than enough punch to lift those tabs out, even if you do baglock. The physical forces involved in the mass, velocity, and momentum of a human body in ANY skydiving situation are huge. Have you parcticed a cutaway from a suspended harness lately ? You hit like a sack of cement after just a 2 ft. drop, didn't you ? And you didn't even fall the first 32 or more feet of even the fstest possible hop & pop. If you can't lift your rig up by the risers and shake the tabs out, get it fixed. If gear is that fragile or balky, why would you want to jump it at all ?

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[kelpdiver 2]

on that same line, I have heard a couple people talk about undoing the pin cover right before exit to speed up the deploy.

[marks 0]

I do this on hop and pops simply because I'm jumping an ultra high performance canopy loaded heavily. it gives a cleaner low speed deployment. if one riser cover realeases before the other it could cause me to have a violently spinning malfunction.

[crazydiver 0]

I don't think there is anything wrong with jumping your gear as normal. However...think about it for a minute. If by opening your riser covers you are slowing wear on your rig, at the same time creating no extra danger...why not do it? THat IS being responsible for your own gear. Preventative maintenence is part of it. I"m not saying its a huge wear problem for a few hop and pops, but it is a factor to doing it.

Cheers,
Travis

[b1jercat 0]

In a word NO. Your rig will work just fine with the covers closed.

blues

jerry

[Andy9o8 2]

I also do my share of hop & pops on my rig (and a hop & pop isn't "getting near terminal", it's "exit-reach-pull"), and I have no problems at all with my riser covers closed or my Pilot. Of course, I'm not jumping a high-performance canopy, and I'm not too heavily loaded. I note you're jumping a Crossfire (what are you loading it at?), so YMMV.
(BTW, are you really jumping a Crossfire at 56 jumps, or do you need to update your profile?)

[sdctlc 0]

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But on most h-n-ps I give myself enough time to get near terminal

That is NOT a hop-n-pop

I generaly open the riser covers when I do a Hop-n-pop. I also flip open the main pin cover. Really do both to just help...

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[billvon 2,990]

Unless you have special issues (i.e. very stiff or defective riser covers) it is best to keep them CLOSED.

Here's an example why. You do a hop and pop with a worn out or damaged PC, and open the riser covers. You toss the PC and it just sits there; it does not have enough drag to pull the pin at the low H+P speeds. You now have a PC in tow. "Shit," you say, and immediately perform emergency procedures.

As you pull the cutaway handle, the risers release. Nothing is holding them in, so they release and dangle behind you. You pull the reserve handle, and the reserve PC launches _through_ one of the risers. The reserve begins opening, but is horseshoed to the main container via the main riser. A bad situation.

[airtwardo 7]

That's a scenario I never thought of...GOOD POINT!


...Not that I ever leave my risers 'uncovered' anyway, but there is the simple reason, that I can pass on to others.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[hookitt 1]

I keep mine closed. They work fine under subterminal conditions. billvon's scenario is quite valid as well.

When the main container is open, The riser covers don't have the same holding power. (assuming they hold tight in the first place). My Infinity and my Eclipse riser covers hold really well when the main container is closed, and release just fine once it's open.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[RMURRAY 1]

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Is the general consensus that it's preferrable to open the riser covers of a (thoroughly) freefly friendly container prior to a hop-n-pop?

I was thinking about it, and imagine that if you have stiff riser covers, and they're closed on a h/p, and you manage to have a malfunction- like a baglock, specifically- the mess might not have enough drag to separate cleanly after cutaway (due to 'low' speeds- I don't know if it'd be a factor though at 80 mph instead of 120) ...leading to other potential complications.

Thoughts?

RE off heading and line twists. try it both ways. what works for one person will not necessarily work for all. Bill Booth has stated that tuck tabs on the shoulders are a compromise and depending on how tight the reserve is and how high the reserve is packed it can make a big difference. With my VX, if I had any doubt at all I would be undoing them for a hop n pop (ie dump when you clear the plane).

rm

[LearningTOfly 0]

Thanks Billvon and Rob- those are two insights I'll remember.

All opinions posted appreciated.

[DAMO 0]

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Unless you have special issues (i.e. very stiff or defective riser covers) it is best to keep them CLOSED.

Here's an example why. You do a hop and pop with a worn out or damaged PC, and open the riser covers. You toss the PC and it just sits there; it does not have enough drag to pull the pin at the low H+P speeds. You now have a PC in tow. "Shit," you say, and immediately perform emergency procedures.

As you pull the cutaway handle, the risers release. Nothing is holding them in, so they release and dangle behind you. You pull the reserve handle, and the reserve PC launches _through_ one of the risers. The reserve begins opening, but is horseshoed to the main container via the main riser. A bad situation.

While this scenario is possible I think it is highly unlikely. If you pull your cutaway with the main still in the container and the risers sitting in the their normal position with or without riser covers open the three-ring system doesn't automatically release, it still requires a small amount of load on the risers to be released. You can try this on the ground and feel the amount of load required.

I prefer covers open for sub-terminal openings on HP canopies for more consistent openings.

[cocheese 0]

Maybe the greatest hazard is having lines or stuff getting caught on things before/during exit. I keep my shit closed and have a minumum exit altitude of 3000 feet. (after getting a pilot chute in tow from a 2000 ft exit.)

Had a toggle line wrap around my fingers today when i went to pop the brakes. I'll be more carefull next time. Packer didn't stow the excess line in the keeper. Fingers still hurt and i was wearing gloves. Almost had to use the hook knife.

[FrogNog 1]

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But on most h-n-ps I give myself enough time to get near terminal

That is NOT a hop-n-pop

If you close the door on a 182 while you're on the step then get the pilot to clean the flaps and begin his or her descent, you can do a terminal hop-and-pop.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[justinb138 0]

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on that same line, I have heard a couple people talk about undoing the pin cover right before exit to speed up the deploy.

I don't see how it would speed up the deployment, but I see how it would be possible for a bridle/line to wrap around the flap during deployment.

[DJL 235]

Also, pay attention to the type of aircraft you're jumping from. If you're in a crammed Cessna 182 it's not good to have snag points all over your back.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Reginald 0]

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Is the general consensus that it's preferrable to open the riser covers of a (thoroughly) freefly friendly container prior to a hop-n-pop?

No.

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[tso-d_chris 0]

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I've heard of people doing that when throwing right out door, like when doing CRW. But on most h-n-ps I give myself enough time to get near terminal; at least enough to not worry about it. I'm sure you'll get both sides from more experienced folks than you and I.

I recently tossed right out the door, and ended up with some massive twists. Riser covers could have a factor I suppose, but I don't know.

It's not a hop n pop if you take it to near terminal. A hop n pop is exit and deployment within about ~3 seconds, often faster.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Is the general consensus that it's preferrable to open the riser covers of a (thoroughly) freefly friendly container prior to a hop-n-pop?

I was thinking about it, and imagine that if you have stiff riser covers, and they're closed on a h/p, and you manage to have a malfunction- like a baglock, specifically- the mess might not have enough drag to separate cleanly after cutaway (due to 'low' speeds- I don't know if it'd be a factor though at 80 mph instead of 120) ...leading to other potential complications.

Thoughts?

CRW jumpers often open their riser covers prior to exit.

It helps decrease off heading openings on low speed deployments. One off heading opening on an eight way speed CRW team can blow the time it takes to build the formation.

CRW risers are bulky. CRW dogs tend to use dive blocks instead of dive loops, since they work better with less hand fatigue when used for extended periods of time.

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[Hans 0]

I open my flaps and tuck them back under the main risers. It doesn't help with the openings it makes your Mirage look better in photos. If you have a rig sponsor they want the rig looking as clean as possible. Most people don't even notice that my flaps are not open

The Farm