skydivermom 0 #26 April 24, 2006 Thanks orange1. I'm definately going to address the jumpsuit and weight belt issues. I didn't think about the boxman thing though. I like that. Maybe I should go out with someone without taking grips, and try to fly with them and adjust my fallrate. It sounds like fun.Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #27 April 24, 2006 No contact jumps are a fantastic way to learn."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #28 April 24, 2006 Shoot, when I did my docking for the 'A', Walt and I went out and I even left a second after he did. I had no trouble at all docking on him. It was great! Of course, I was wearing weights. He got video of that jump and it was really wild looking.Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #29 April 24, 2006 Ahem! BOTH of you stay away from that pond. It is mine and i shall get my revenge on it yet. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #30 April 25, 2006 Trust me, I'm not going anywhere near it. You, on the other hand, need to show it who's boss! Heal quickly my friendMrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lisamariewillbe 1 #31 April 25, 2006 Oh its okay Brains, it attacked me but I won.... walked away , and got on another load... I even threw in a little extra kick (mostly to get the burrs off of me) for you... Im just glad I knew about it being a slight incline...Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #32 April 25, 2006 Here's another good arch from a lightweight jumper. She's doing that to keep up with a big guy on a tandem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #33 April 25, 2006 Wow! That's one slick shiney suit! ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #34 April 25, 2006 QuoteHere's another good arch from a lightweight jumper. She's doing that to keep up with a big guy on a tandem. Actually, in that particular pic, she cant be arching to the max. With her arms back like that, her upper back gets locked and you really cant arch all the way through the back and hips. EDIT: PS: not saying she cant arch! But thats what this 1 picture shows.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #35 April 25, 2006 Yes, she can arch more, but I think if you look at the angle of the sternum to the hips, it's quite a bit of an arch. At least that what I see. Another thing for smaller people that want to fall fast. Get a rig that doesn't poke out on both sides of your waist. That will cause extra drag. You can get narrow rigs, with the container deeper, not wider, to help in the streamlining. I also think a belly band to hold the rig into the small of your back when you arch hard might also cut down on drag, but I haven't really experimented with it. KellyF just made my wife a new infinity with the narrow cut, and it works really well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivermom 0 #36 April 25, 2006 That is awesome...I'm noticing how she has her arms further back than I do on the three-way. That's another thing I need to do better on.Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #37 April 25, 2006 QuoteI'm noticing how she has her arms further back than I do on the three-way. That's another thing I need to do better on. No!!!!!! The chicken wings flying style is really, really old school. Your maximum arch will happen with your arms forward.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Orange1 0 #38 April 25, 2006 hey, i dig the "catwoman" jumpsuit any idea who made it??Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #39 April 25, 2006 You're getting a ton of advice. Mine conflicts with a lot of it (I'll put *'s there so you know), I've had great results helping lightweights though just through mantis basics. 1 - tight nylon suit (to repeat good advice) 2 - weight belts, not vests, keep the weight closer to your hips (to repeat good advice) 3 - arch with your butt and lower back muscles, not your upper back and definitely NOT between your shoulders. (push your hips down, not your chest (to repeat EXCELLENT advice)) 3b - * knees narrow, never wide. touch your knees together for a while if you have to to get this as a habit. You can't arch properly through your hips with knees wide apart (try it on the couch it WON"T work especially for a woman's anatomy) and it's more unstable, not stable for a relaxed skydiver (think of a stool with 4 legs vs 3 legs, one always sits flat, the other is tippy). I spend entire training days flying with my knees in contact to keep this habit. 4 - * never ever take double grips or let someone take them on you - bad idea in general, killer for a lightweight. It'll slow you down unless you Drastically over arch to compensate. Better to fly much closer to allow bringing in the elbows. High grips are for falling slower, not faster. 5 - * don't put your arms back at all. see #3, same problem - it's temporary and really hard on the back and shoulders - in essence, you are trying to go faster by diving without forward motion - why do two things that fight each other? You get a little, but you get a lot more with the following: 6 - Per #3, #4 and #5 - keep your elbow in (mantis) and in front of you. To speed up, don't pull your elbows back, bring them together (squeeze narrow) to your torso to take them completely out of the wind. Try this drill, get above someone laying base - to get down, lift your chin high, push your HIPS out (narrow knees), booties to your butt, and mostly - grab your boobs (get your arms and elbows tight IN to your body and actually roll your hands in so they are not palm to wind but really palm to body). To see the effect the first time, disregard all that except grabbing your "collar bones (if that's less tacky)" without all the other except keeping your hips arched but don't arch any harder - that'll be dramatic enough that you'll be giggling with happiness that you now know how to fall faster. You also get to keep your elbows in a place to take grips - i.e., you get to keep flying. The trick is to slip more air, that doesn't mean arch harder all the time. Sometimes 'overarching' puts more body in the wind, not less. In short, elbows narrow, knees narrow wins the game. Fast fall - narrow knees and elbows, no booties, smoothly arch from hips, short length board, chin up Slow fall - narrow knees big booties (straighten legs), superman arms, flat, long length board, chin up (beach ball people hate this, but the chin up compensates for all the lift I get from my booties that the beach ball crowd never gets to use and I get to see where I'm going) This has worked 100% of the time for every lightweight I've coached on it. You should see their eyes when they 'elevator' down and past me. You will be very happy. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #40 April 25, 2006 QuoteFast fall - narrow knees and elbows, no booties, smoothly arch from hips, short length board, chin up I know its not what you mean, but, some people may read this as in briging your elbows back,...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #41 April 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteFast fall - narrow knees and elbows, no booties, smoothly arch from hips, short length board, chin up I know its not what you mean, but, some people may read this as in briging your elbows back,... Good point. narrow means against the rib cage, not back to the sides (happy little child hugging herself in glee - cute picture, proper arm position). If she rolls her hands in to grab the collar bones, they'll automatically go to the right place unless she's part chicken. THANKS ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #42 April 25, 2006 Quote*** The chicken wings flying style is really, really old school. But she learned a really long time ago. There was a little moving around on that tandem, and I think she was just using her arm to fly down and in a little. That's not her usual flying position, more of a swoop position. I wasn't really thinking about what her free arm was doing. Can you still wave at the camera with that other arm postion?Seriously, I know the mantis is a preferred positon for a lot of things, and is great for dropping fast. I rarely need to go faster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivermom 0 #43 April 25, 2006 Wow - I'm printing a lot of this out so I can digest it in small pieces. That's awesome....I appreciate it!Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #44 April 25, 2006 QuoteSeriously, I know the mantis is a preferred positon for a lot of things, and is great for dropping fast. I rarely need to go faster. Neat thing about mantis and fast falling. You can bring your elbows together in front of you until they touch - just keep making them narrower until they are completely in the air that would hit your torso anyway. If you bring them back, the cross section gets bigger before it gets smaller, but then the arms are stuck. And you can never get them completely behind you to the same extent as in front. Only the forearms can get behind while the upper arms just result in adding 6 to 12 inches in width to your torso - blocking more air. I have a tandem pic that looks just like your cutie in the shiny suit - once you arch for fallrate instead of 'narrow' for fall rate, it's normal to arch further to try and get more rather than fix the arms in front again. In any case, what's important is she looks gorgeous and is happy. (mine has started taking suit orders and we have the shop all set up perfect - finally. It's really cool. I recall trading notes on suit making spouses with you, thanks for the comiseration, it helped). ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #45 April 26, 2006 QuoteWow - I'm printing a lot of this out so I can digest it in small pieces. That's awesome....I appreciate it! Listen to rehmwa's advice. It's good. If you need practical help, might I suggest getting a highly-skilled and current 4/8-way person to jump with you? They can help you with the more modern techniques that weren't being taught ten years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
skydivermom 0 #36 April 25, 2006 That is awesome...I'm noticing how she has her arms further back than I do on the three-way. That's another thing I need to do better on.Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #37 April 25, 2006 QuoteI'm noticing how she has her arms further back than I do on the three-way. That's another thing I need to do better on. No!!!!!! The chicken wings flying style is really, really old school. Your maximum arch will happen with your arms forward.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #38 April 25, 2006 hey, i dig the "catwoman" jumpsuit any idea who made it??Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #39 April 25, 2006 You're getting a ton of advice. Mine conflicts with a lot of it (I'll put *'s there so you know), I've had great results helping lightweights though just through mantis basics. 1 - tight nylon suit (to repeat good advice) 2 - weight belts, not vests, keep the weight closer to your hips (to repeat good advice) 3 - arch with your butt and lower back muscles, not your upper back and definitely NOT between your shoulders. (push your hips down, not your chest (to repeat EXCELLENT advice)) 3b - * knees narrow, never wide. touch your knees together for a while if you have to to get this as a habit. You can't arch properly through your hips with knees wide apart (try it on the couch it WON"T work especially for a woman's anatomy) and it's more unstable, not stable for a relaxed skydiver (think of a stool with 4 legs vs 3 legs, one always sits flat, the other is tippy). I spend entire training days flying with my knees in contact to keep this habit. 4 - * never ever take double grips or let someone take them on you - bad idea in general, killer for a lightweight. It'll slow you down unless you Drastically over arch to compensate. Better to fly much closer to allow bringing in the elbows. High grips are for falling slower, not faster. 5 - * don't put your arms back at all. see #3, same problem - it's temporary and really hard on the back and shoulders - in essence, you are trying to go faster by diving without forward motion - why do two things that fight each other? You get a little, but you get a lot more with the following: 6 - Per #3, #4 and #5 - keep your elbow in (mantis) and in front of you. To speed up, don't pull your elbows back, bring them together (squeeze narrow) to your torso to take them completely out of the wind. Try this drill, get above someone laying base - to get down, lift your chin high, push your HIPS out (narrow knees), booties to your butt, and mostly - grab your boobs (get your arms and elbows tight IN to your body and actually roll your hands in so they are not palm to wind but really palm to body). To see the effect the first time, disregard all that except grabbing your "collar bones (if that's less tacky)" without all the other except keeping your hips arched but don't arch any harder - that'll be dramatic enough that you'll be giggling with happiness that you now know how to fall faster. You also get to keep your elbows in a place to take grips - i.e., you get to keep flying. The trick is to slip more air, that doesn't mean arch harder all the time. Sometimes 'overarching' puts more body in the wind, not less. In short, elbows narrow, knees narrow wins the game. Fast fall - narrow knees and elbows, no booties, smoothly arch from hips, short length board, chin up Slow fall - narrow knees big booties (straighten legs), superman arms, flat, long length board, chin up (beach ball people hate this, but the chin up compensates for all the lift I get from my booties that the beach ball crowd never gets to use and I get to see where I'm going) This has worked 100% of the time for every lightweight I've coached on it. You should see their eyes when they 'elevator' down and past me. You will be very happy. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #40 April 25, 2006 QuoteFast fall - narrow knees and elbows, no booties, smoothly arch from hips, short length board, chin up I know its not what you mean, but, some people may read this as in briging your elbows back,...Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #41 April 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteFast fall - narrow knees and elbows, no booties, smoothly arch from hips, short length board, chin up I know its not what you mean, but, some people may read this as in briging your elbows back,... Good point. narrow means against the rib cage, not back to the sides (happy little child hugging herself in glee - cute picture, proper arm position). If she rolls her hands in to grab the collar bones, they'll automatically go to the right place unless she's part chicken. THANKS ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #42 April 25, 2006 Quote*** The chicken wings flying style is really, really old school. But she learned a really long time ago. There was a little moving around on that tandem, and I think she was just using her arm to fly down and in a little. That's not her usual flying position, more of a swoop position. I wasn't really thinking about what her free arm was doing. Can you still wave at the camera with that other arm postion?Seriously, I know the mantis is a preferred positon for a lot of things, and is great for dropping fast. I rarely need to go faster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivermom 0 #43 April 25, 2006 Wow - I'm printing a lot of this out so I can digest it in small pieces. That's awesome....I appreciate it!Mrs. WaltAppel All things work together for good to them that love God...Romans 8:28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #44 April 25, 2006 QuoteSeriously, I know the mantis is a preferred positon for a lot of things, and is great for dropping fast. I rarely need to go faster. Neat thing about mantis and fast falling. You can bring your elbows together in front of you until they touch - just keep making them narrower until they are completely in the air that would hit your torso anyway. If you bring them back, the cross section gets bigger before it gets smaller, but then the arms are stuck. And you can never get them completely behind you to the same extent as in front. Only the forearms can get behind while the upper arms just result in adding 6 to 12 inches in width to your torso - blocking more air. I have a tandem pic that looks just like your cutie in the shiny suit - once you arch for fallrate instead of 'narrow' for fall rate, it's normal to arch further to try and get more rather than fix the arms in front again. In any case, what's important is she looks gorgeous and is happy. (mine has started taking suit orders and we have the shop all set up perfect - finally. It's really cool. I recall trading notes on suit making spouses with you, thanks for the comiseration, it helped). ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #45 April 26, 2006 QuoteWow - I'm printing a lot of this out so I can digest it in small pieces. That's awesome....I appreciate it! Listen to rehmwa's advice. It's good. If you need practical help, might I suggest getting a highly-skilled and current 4/8-way person to jump with you? They can help you with the more modern techniques that weren't being taught ten years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
