metalslug 36 #1 July 6, 2004 This link has prompted this poll. This thread has some points of view on the topic too. Please note, in the above poll options, I have excluded the obvious exception of emergency exits. A poll similar to this may have been done before but I couldnt find it, so here goes... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
par 0 #2 July 6, 2004 usualy we just do bigger intervals between exits. I find it fun. But falling 3 km in the clouds of rain and snow is not so fun as it may seem to Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pkasdorf 0 #3 July 6, 2004 GPS positioning should be included in the poll options. If the position is known relative to the DZ there should be no problem speaking in general. Personally I also need to know the surroundings, wind conditions should be predictable and not extreme and the clouds should be higher than 1500 - 2000 feet depending on my knowledge of the surroundings. HISPA # 18 POPS # 8757 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #4 July 6, 2004 no problem for me, depends on the pilot... With some I do jump through clouds, with some others, when it's cloudy I'm not on the plane... One thing I learned recently, I won't be doing RW video through 6000ft of clouds anymore.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adriandavies 0 #5 July 6, 2004 According to the BPA ops manual Cloud Parachutists may not leave the aircraft if, at the point of exit, the ground between the opening point and the intended landing area is not visible. ...and of course no one would dream of breaking that rule would they...? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelem 0 #6 July 6, 2004 If the plane has GPS on it, and the cloudbase is above opening altitude, then I don't mind jumping through cloud. If the cloudbase is below opening altitude though, then it makes canopy collisions too easy and you may have no idea if you're flying towards or away from the DZ. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vt1977 0 #7 July 6, 2004 I have no issue about jumping through some cloud providing: 1. The cloud is above break off height (tracking in cloud is just stupid) 2. The cloud is not wet (no fun being rained on in cloud) 3. The cloud is not completely solid so that I can see everybody in my group. Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #8 July 6, 2004 I think one thing that people are forgetting is that we are a VFR sport (at least in the US.) The purpose of having to be able to see the DZ is not to ensure a good spot, or even to be able to avoid other people under canopy or land safely. It is to be able to see other traffic you might collide with. It is our responsibility to not jump when we might conflict with another airplane; you can't do that if you can't see the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #9 July 6, 2004 I've always disagreed with Bill's response here. Maybe people can pull out the FAA or USPA regulations I totally missed, but I believe that there is no regulation about what a freefaller or canopy pilot can enter/be around with respect to clouds. The only regulations I know of are for the aircraft (if they need to fly VFR) and cloud clearance for the jumpers exiting the aircraft. After exiting, cloud clearance doesn't apply. Cloud clearance merely corresponds to when a jumper can or cannot exit an aircraft. From a safety aspect, it isn't advisable to enter a cloud either in freefall or under canopy, but there are no (again my person opinion of the FAA/USPA regs) restriction once you are out of the airplane. That aside, I love the halo effect as I'm entering a cloud. I tend to avoid thick cloud layers under canopy though. For one I don't want to be unable to make it back to the landing area after leaving the cloud. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #10 July 6, 2004 QuoteI've always disagreed with Bill's response here. Maybe people can pull out the FAA or USPA regulations I totally missed, but I believe that there is no regulation about what a freefaller or canopy pilot can enter/be around with respect to clouds. The only regulations I know of are for the aircraft (if they need to fly VFR) and cloud clearance for the jumpers exiting the aircraft. After exiting, cloud clearance doesn't apply. Cloud clearance merely corresponds to when a jumper can or cannot exit an aircraft. Quote§ 105.17 Flight visibility and clearance from cloud requirements. No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from that aircraft— (a) Into or through a cloud Quote§ 105.5 General. No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from an aircraft, if that operation creates a hazard to air traffic or to persons or property on the surface. Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #11 July 6, 2004 I may note that these are not USPA BSRs, these are (U.S.) FARs. That means they aren't "rule", they are "law". I believe one punishment the FAA can mete is suspension of the jump pilot's pilot certificate (license). -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #12 July 6, 2004 QuoteI may note that these are not USPA BSRs, these are (U.S.) FARs. That means they aren't "rule", they are "law". I believe one punishment the FAA can mete is suspension of the jump pilot's pilot certificate. Yup. They can also fine the jumper, the DZ, or any other person or organization that is in any way involved in the jump. For more detail about the law and those responsible for compliance, please see my article at: http://ranchskydive.com/safety/tb_article13.htmTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #13 July 6, 2004 Quote3. The cloud is not completely solid so that I can see everybody in my group. Your group. What about the group that after you and didn't have adequate separation? Whoever tracks away on line-of-flight has the possibility of opening directly under them. A freefall collision with an open canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newsstand 0 #14 July 6, 2004 On Monday, a day of scattered clouds in central Texas, i watched an aircraft fly under the jump plane I was in and if not directly over the DZ very close. I would have hated to meet him in a cloud. "Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pccoder 0 #15 July 6, 2004 Somehow we managed to fall through a good 20 seconds of total whiteness last weekend. It was a bit unnerving. PcCoder.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vt1977 0 #16 July 7, 2004 QuoteQuote3. The cloud is not completely solid so that I can see everybody in my group. Your group. What about the group that after you and didn't have adequate separation? Whoever tracks away on line-of-flight has the possibility of opening directly under them. A freefall collision with an open canopy. That's why I also said: Quote1. The cloud is above break off height (tracking in cloud is just stupid) Vicki Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #17 July 7, 2004 QuoteAccording to the BPA ops manual Cloud Parachutists may not leave the aircraft if, at the point of exit, the ground between the opening point and the intended landing area is not visible. ...and of course no one would dream of breaking that rule would they...? That is a wierd rule There is no ground between the opening point and intended landing area. There is only air between the two points. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
