Peformance Designs Customer Service

[Miami 0]

That is a bad analogy...the problem is not a defective part of the product, it is that the entire product is a lemon. Charging for the replacement of that lemon, even at a discount, does not seem like "above and beyond" to me. Their customer is happy with it though, so no big deal right?

Miami

[Andy9o8 2]

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Yeah! I totally agree!!!

And if I buy a Camero off the street and it turns out to have a bad motor, I should absolutely be able to send it back to Chevy and get a equal Camero that runs great for FREE!

Car manufacturer's have that - they are called warrenties from manufacturing defects. if you buy a Camero off the street with less than 3 years or 36,000 miles - as long as the first owner didn't screw the car up, doesn't the warranty transfer?

In addition, many states have "lemon laws" to protect consumers who have bought, well, lemons.

[rehmwa 2]

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But there is no warranty like that with canopies, and everyone knows that when you buy one second hand, so wouldn't you say that PD went above and beyond what they had to do?

"had to do"? they didn't have to do anything - by definition, answering the phone is beyond what they had to do

"should do"? I think it's great they did what I'd consider the right thing. It's a great example and we're lucky they stand up tall on this type of thing.....I'll continue to deal with them and other groups that show this type of customer attention

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Vectracide 0]

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Hey everybody, Chris, Dave, Ian, all you guys. I really wasn't trying to "slam" pd here. I didn't mean to get all the hair standing up on the back of everyone's neck here. My point was simply, and I'll restate it and then let's please drop this, my point is that I think the right thing to do if you really want to show outstanding cust. service, is to give the poor guy who got a defective canopy a new parachute. Take a demo of equal age out of the demo fleet and send it to the guy. Make it right, and not just sell a replacement. Over and out, sorry to have gotten a bunch of people pissed, that wasn't my intention. mmmkay?

Well, you owe me an apology as well. According to you I am naive individual that allows himself to be screwed. Then you took the opportunity to turn my PD post of praise into your personal PD bashing opportunity. Now you say you didn't mean to, but, in fact, that is exactly what you did. Thats too bad.

With that said, I don't believe you will find a company that will just hand over a new canopy just because I bought a used canopy that is damaged. Which brings me to my other point. I never said the canopy was manufactured wrong, or defective was your unfounded SPECULATION. You have no knowledge whatsoever about the this issue. The previous owner could have overloaded it on a regular basis thus creating damage to the fabric panels themselves. Who knows. PD is going to find out.

I'm happy with what I was offered, because in the end, I'm still ahead of the game with cash output when it comes to owning a new Katana and I dealt with people at PD that were really cool and helpful. What really really gets me is that everytime someone trys to be positive on this site, this happens.

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Controlled and Deliberate.....

[davelepka 4]

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Now, Dave forget putting this incident aside. I'm talking about THIS INCIDENT, nothing else. What would you see as the right thing for the mfr. to do?

OK, then, this incident. I do agree with you that PD had a responsibility to do something to remedy the situation, and that living up to that responsibility should not be grounds for praise, it should just be.

As far as what they did, thats a tricky one. The canopy had 280 jumps on it. Thats alot of usage for a canopy some dubbed a 'lemon'. I know if I jump a canopy that doens't treat me well three times, I might do two or three more jumps to investigate any possible solutions, but after that, I giving up on that canopy. If it was new, it's going back. If was borrowed, I'll never borrow it again.

If I bought it used, hopefully those were the test jumps, and I'm not buying. If it was already paid for, I guess I would send it to the mfr for testing/inspection.

So where the point that a canopy becomes used enough to not be held to the factory standards? We know that canopies and lines wear out with usage, so without a clear cut, and pre-determined 'warranty' period, how can you expect a certain set of actions from the factory?

Even then, all you could do is a time factor, as jump numbers aren't accurately recorded. What do you say, 30 days? 180 days?

I think the point here is that upon recieveing a new canopy (or one fresh from a repair or reline) you can expect a grace period, enough time for you to jump it, and make the determination if the performance is satisfactory, and I believe that all mfrs will honor that grace period.

I see your point that if it was wrong from day one, they should own up to that, but, consider the jump numbers, and the effects those might have had on the canopy. How long did it take those jumps to accrew, and how was the canopy cared for during that peroid?

From a business perspective, PD has to, at some point, call a sale final, and move on. Otherwise, the liability of every canopy they ship out, for an indeterminate amount of time, would be too much for the business to bear.

In this case they made a great deal on a replacement, which I'm guessing effectively cancelled out at least all, if not more than, the profits they made selling the canopy in the first place. I'm not sure, in this case, that you can reasonably ask for any more.

[outlawphx 1]

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>Any skydiving equipment maker that discovered that they screwed
>up on manufacturing a product would do whatever it takes to keep
>that product from getting back out in circulation. PERIOD!

No they won't. I've dealt with a few other companies who would _not_ do that. Glide Path comes to mind.

Yeah, I got a whopping %50 off coupon for an Esprit (Who would want one?) for my Nova with a 100 jumps on it Since I never used it, I guess I should of kept it for a car cover

[nerd137 0]

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I really wasn't trying to "slam" pd here. I didn't mean to get all the hair standing up on the back of everyone's neck here.

You might try toning down your speech a little bit then.

[Squeak 17]

I rang PD and ask if they had a Stiletto T shirt cause I have a Stietto canopy and thought it nice to have a matching T shirt (yeah I'm a wanker so what). So I get an email saying that they dont have and and dont make any, but wouldI like some free stuff
Well HELL YEAH, Ok it's only stickers and the like but IT'S FREE.
I love free stuff. PD Rocksand no I'm not a sponsored jumper hell most of whatI do barely passes for jumping at all

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[evilivan 0]

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....I'd venture to say that some manufacturers would have sent a replacement at NO CHARGE!

Dude, I will post an Icarus (probably the second biggest sport canopy manafacture?) story here when I have a few minutes that belies that statement. I'm PD all the way after that experience....

"If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation."
David Brent

[evilivan 0]

I never posted this story/experience - it is old news, 18 months ago at least - but it is so (dis)similar to yours I feel compelled to share...

This has potential to be a long one, so I will do an abbreviated version (timings are roughly as I remember them but not exact – the general theme pretty much covers it though):

March 2003: bought new Icarus Crossfire 2 114

March 2003 – April 2004: jumped new Crossfire 2, approx 400 jumps, always suspicious of slight left hand turn – thought it was leg straps / lines / risers / harness; but admit I did ignore it cos I needed it as a 2nd rig for training camps (my bad)

April 2004: broke leg and loaned rig as backup for the team

June/July 2004: rig returned with a reported left hand turn

September 2004: canopy sent to Icarus Spain
for inspection and possible line set

October – December 2004: unable to contact relevant person at Icarus

January 2005: found out from dealer friend of mine that they had found a problem with the canopy and I should get in touch

January – April 2005: unable to get in touch

April/May 2005: finally got in touch; yes, there is a problem with the canopy but unfortunately they didn’t know where the canopy was; they needed to locate it to find out the details of the issue

May – June 2005: unable to get in touch

June/July 2005: finally got in touch; canopy located in boot (trunk for you Septics) of test jumpers car. Built in left hand turn, sorry about that, please accept 15% off new canopy of your choice (no you can’t have yours back)

2 shocked minutes later: 15%?!? Not really very happy with that (or words to that effect) - their response: well, you did take a long time to send the canopy back, but will to talk to the management

August 2005: no contact made by Icarus so I called them; management were prepared to go to 30%.

0.0000001 seconds later (slightly angry): you can take your 30% and stuff it @**£$”£%^”¬!. All my future custom and recommendations will go elsewhere.

Couple of things I should add: there is no doubt that I should have sent the canopy back much (much) earlier. I can’t refute that. But what really annoys be about the whole episode was the fact that they used my tardiness as the reason for the limited compensation offer, but their tardiness was almost worse – especially as they are the service provider and I am the customer. And lets not forget that they built the faulty product.

I didn’t bother to pursue it further; I don’t have the time, I certainly couldn’t be bothered dealing with them anymore, and I’m lucky enough to be able to take the financial hit. I will never buy or recommend an Icarus canopy again – or at least as long as other companies offer far, far superior customer service (and, in my opinion, canopies).

Ivan

"If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation."
David Brent

[tso-d_chris 0]

They kept your canopy without mutually agreeable compensation? There is a word for that that seems to be on the tip of my tongue, I just can't seem to think of it...

For Great Deals on Gear

[godfrog 2]

I had a PD 190 back about 1990 and doing some very foolish things I managed to stretch the top skin severely and tear the stitching. I sent it in to be fixed or trashed with an explanation of how I did it and they sent it back repaired at no charge!

Experience is a difficult teacher, she gives you the test first and the lesson afterward

[JerryBaumchen 1,365]

I can, it is called:

THEFT

[freakyrat 1]

I sent a Stiletto 135 back in for a reline. PD called me and gave me a complete riggers report on the canopy inspection and told me I also had a kill line in the slider that was fraying and would have to be replaced. They did everything promptly and sent the canopy back.

I had a Katana 120 demo from them for two weekends, unfortunately the weather wouldn't cooperate here in Houston. Called Kim at PD and she said I could keep it for another weekend but they had to get it back on the following Monday and if the weather turned out bad again they would work me in to get it back to me to demo. As it turned out I only got to jump it once on Saturday before work and the weather turned crappy on Sunday (my day off). I liked the canopy and would love the opportunity to jump it some more. I'm going to wait till we get out of this crappy weather pattern here in Houston.

Again, their customer service for me is top notch.

Chris

[mark135 0]

PD rocks.

My wife snuck my stiletto out of the house and sent it in for a reline as a christmas present.

PD not only did the reline but called and asked her if they could do some testing on the fabric as it is an old canopy.
Canopy passed test and they also replaced the slider.

also put new stabs and what looks like 2 new cells.

Wife sent in canopy with risers atached. they sent note back saying that the velcro on risers should be replaced. Not thier risers or thier job to look at them at all yet they went the extra mile and did so.

was billed for the reline and slider only.

While i am at it Strong rocks too.
lot of work on my wifes and my quasars for a very low price. all mods for free.

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"It seemed like a good idea at the time"

[Vertifly 0]

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I think the right thing to do if you really want to show outstanding cust. service, is to give the poor guy who got a defective canopy a new parachute. Take a demo of equal age out of the demo fleet and send it to the guy. Make it right, and not just sell a replacement.

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I agree. I also believe that offering a brand spankin' new canopy (instead of a used demo model) for a nominal charge is just as good in terms of customer service, if not better.

I believe you've both cornered them. Silence seems to be following. Or shall we expect a swat in defense.

I strongly agree with that...a demo of close-to equal use or give the kid a new one.