Oxygen problem at event?

[foxyroxtail 0]

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There are several other physiological factors that contribute to one becoming hypoxic, smokers are at greater risk than non smokers as are those who partied hard the night before or ingested drugs.

Great point!

At WT06 at least one of the folks who did have hypoxia to the point of blacking out did have "other physiological factors" - he was severely congested. This meant poor absorption. The Dr. was quite certain that was the main factor. The person in the base also thought that congestion was the probable cause as well.

We are used to sitting ourselves down from high alt jumps due to ear problems or blocked sinuses, but don't always take into account those things that may limit the effectiveness of what would normally be a satisfactory delivery of O2 to our bodies.

High alt jumps are outside normal parameters of day-to-day skydiving, and should be dealt with that way. Just like with making different types of jumps (camera, wing, instructory) you have to have your checklist of safety and proceedural items that apply to each specific jump.

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[billvon 2,991]

>Something I don't know about the oxygen systems typically used
>on jump planes: does each jumper have a hose that just flows
>a little oxygen all the time . . .

Yes. Specifically it's a pressure regulator to a manifold; metering is done by orifice valves. This gives each jumper a constant flow (if everything works properly that is.)

> or is there some kind of regulator
>that only flows oxygen when you inhale, sort of like a SCUBA
>regulator?

That's a demand system. They are used on 30K jumps, but not on 'normal' high altitude jumps.

>If it's the former, I don't think this would work, but if
>the latter, I wonder if some kind of flow rate alarm at the oxygen
>bottle could be useful.

Most orifice-metered systems DO incorporate a flow meter. It's typically on the pilot's line since he's the most important guy in the plane most of the time. If it turns green it means he's getting at least X liters per minute of oxygen. As long as he is using his O2 correctly (i.e nasal cannula or mask) then he should be getting at least half of that O2. And as long as manifold pressure is relatively constant, it means that everyone is getting about the same flow.

>(This is part of the reason I suggest putting the box under pilot
> control instead of jumper control.)

At the 300 ways, at one point the pilot picked up the entire regulator assembly, tossed it at me and said "Fix this piece of shit!" He was busy with other things. Jumpers typically have more attention to spare than pilots.

[jumpwally 0]

Good then, blurr out the faces and post the video!!

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[Eule 0]

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[military jumps with O2] All jumpers are hooked into a console that an O2 Technician monitors and
controls. Attached to each individual jumpers system is a flow regulator indicator that moves every time
one inhales/exhales.

I thought it probably wasn't a new idea, but apparently it isn't done often on civilian jumps that use
oxygen.

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The problem with civilian systems, IMO, is that they lack several of the important pieces already
mentioned.

Given all the problems you listed, do you think that the civilian systems at least fill the requirement of
"better than nothing"? Not a very high standard, I know, but I'm curious.

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It is also very hard to determine how much O2 the person is breathing when using the nasal
canulla. A mask that covers the nose and mouth completely and that can form a seal is what is
needed.

I agree with this idea, at least for the monitoring function. It seems like you could stuff the nasal
cannula down inside your jumpsuit and it would still look like you were getting enough oxygen, at least
if you were just measuring the flow rate to it. With a mask and a demand regulator, if you monitor the
flow rate, you _know_ when somebody is not breathing the oxygen. I would guess that some of the
objections to the masks in civilian jumping would be the cost and that they are probably hard to use
with a helmet or with a beard or mustache.

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Since most skydivers have probably been hypoxic at one point and haven't even realized it since
it can happen as low as 10K feet, it would be a good idea to have someone onboard to monitor these
2 functions.

This might be practical in a huge-way (like WT) but I'm not sure that smaller jumps that need oxygen
would be able to "afford" the extra non-jumping person. I guess you could have a jumper monitor the
oxygen but it sounds like the military practice is to have a non-jumper do it. This is part of the reason
why I was thinking of having a box on the wall - it doesn't take up a slot and might be easier to cost-
justify.

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[Eule 0]

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Specifically it's a pressure regulator to a manifold; metering is done by orifice valves.

OK. Thanks for the clarification on how it works.

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It's typically on the pilot's line since he's the most important guy in the plane most of the time.

For the same reason, I know that on some airplanes (bizjets) that are normally pressurized but have
oxygen, there's only one oxygen bottle, and the pilot can shut off the oxygen to the passengers if
he has to.

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And as long as manifold pressure is relatively constant, it means that everyone is getting about
the same flow.

It means that flow is getting to the end of their hose, but whether it's actually going into their lungs
is another question. _If_ everything works right it will, but the existence of this thread seems to
indicate it doesn't always work right.

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(This is part of the reason I suggest putting the box under pilot control instead of
jumper control.)

At the 300 ways, at one point the pilot picked up the entire regulator assembly, tossed it at me and
said "Fix this piece of shit!" He was busy with other things.

I guess I was thinking of the "smaller" high-altitude jumps, like one Otter load, instead of the big-ways.
I agree that on a big-way, the pilot is kind of busy trying to not run into N other aircraft and so on.
Even when I jump out of a 182 at 11K, I know the pilot doesn't have gobs of time to screw around -
he's flying the plane, looking for traffic, talking to center, talking to the locals, etc. What I was after
was that if the oxygen alarm was in the middle of the cabin somewhere, and had a big knob labeled
"Number of Jumpers", the first reaction of a lot of people when it started beeping and blinking would
be to reach up and turn the knob to some lower number to satisfy the flow rate sensor, instead of
debugging the actual problem with somebody's oxygen supply. If it was in the cockpit, that might be
slightly less likely.

Eule

PLF does not stand for Please Land on Face.

[LouDiamond 1]

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I thought it probably wasn't a new idea, but apparently it isn't done often on civilian jumps that use oxygen.

The only civilian operation I've seen do it the way I have described is the HALO jumper.com guys that show up at WFFC.

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Given all the problems you listed, do you think that the civilian systems at least fill the requirement of "better than nothing"? Not a very high standard, I know, but I'm curious.

Well it is better than a plastic bag over your head but its really hard to tell from person to person. But as far as compared to nothing, yeah it beats a sharp stick in the eye.I honestly believe though that just using the full face(nose/mouth) mask instead of a nasal canulla would make a huge difference towards making it more effecient and effective of a system. I know Mullins has civilian full face masks on his King Air that work great.



I guess you could have a jumper monitor the oxygen ***

Hell, you can't even get most people to look out the door before jumping or to wait the right amount of time between groups, I think having a jumper monitor it would be as effective as a hog looking at a wristwatch IMO.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[mjosparky 4]

Scott,

When Apple Valley was open we ran a pretty good high altitude program. The last high altitude work I did for them, they had ParaFlite's new PHAOS O2 system.
Michael

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals