liveitupa 0 #1 March 21, 2006 Hey anyone who knows enough to tell, I am writing a persuasive pap for English311 and the point is to persuade people that skydiving is actually quite safe. If you have ANY info on this subject I'd be glad to have it. Thanks! Tawnya email me at liveitupa85@hotmail.com[email] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 March 21, 2006 Quoteand the point is to persuade people that skydiving is actually quite safe. Why would you want to do that? Skydiving is NOT a safe activity. It is a calculated risk activity. With that said, even with going out of your way to make it as safe as possible for yourself, you are still not safe. A goodly number of things can still happen that is out of your control that will kill you. If you do a search you'll find numerous posts about this topic. Beyond that, I've noticed that people will be relunctant to help you do your research, especially when you're completely anonymous in your profile.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #3 March 21, 2006 Seems innocent enough to me. College persuasive paper. Skydiving's a pretty good topic. Writing that it isn't safe isn't all that interesting. Persuading someone to believe it is safe is much harder. Don't get me wrong, if a new jumper believes skydiving IS safe, they should be corrected. But this type of paper would be more interesting to me than a persuasive paper about the benefits of abortion or something like that. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 March 21, 2006 Quote Seems innocent enough to me. College persuasive paper. Skydiving's a pretty good topic. Writing that it isn't safe isn't all that interesting. Persuading someone to believe it is safe is much harder. Don't get me wrong, if a new jumper believes skydiving IS safe, they should be corrected. But this type of paper would be more interesting to me than a persuasive paper about the benefits of abortion or something like that. It could be that innocent; however, it sounds a bit like a low time jumper that fully believes that skydiving is safe trying to convience others that it is safe as well. Eitherway there have been quite a few posts made about this topic over the years, and is easily searchable.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yamtx73 0 #5 March 21, 2006 I certainly wouldn't call skydiving safe... I would say it's safer now than it was 30 years ago but by no means does that mean it's safe now. Maybe in another 30 or 40 years it will be safe (i.e. low risk), I think I'll stick around and find out... The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyinseivLP2 0 #6 March 21, 2006 As Dave said skydiving is not safe. Wait till you have have been in the sport several years and then make that argument. In that time you will probably had a few friends die maybe seen a fatality up close and had many more friends that have titanium insersted into thier bodies. Your view whether skydiving is safe may have changed by then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #7 March 21, 2006 you can only argue it's not that much more dangerous than [insert another activity]. Motorcyclists have an annual death rate that isn't terribly different. Scuba divers have a death rate per dive that is only double. But honestly, if I were the grader, I'd give you a zero for topic selection. Skydiving isn't safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #8 March 21, 2006 QuoteBut honestly, if I were the grader, I'd give you a zero for topic selection. Skydiving isn't safe. I'm not sure that matters on a persuasion paper... But if I were doing it I wouldn't necessarily argue that skydiving is safe... I would focus on how we (as skydivers) mitigate the risks involved in skydiving.Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #9 March 21, 2006 Well skydiving is not safe, but it IS safer than the average person thinks!"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenshi 0 #10 March 22, 2006 State that it is a dangerous activity by nature, but that new technology as well as rules and regulations make it safe in practice. You can describe the different materials such as AAD and audible altimeter. Then I'd state that it is always possible for materials to fail. That is why you have a number of precaustions (safety regulations) that prevent this. Then finally I'd round up with th reserve parachute. Say that it is designed specifically not to fail. Finally go to the incident and fatality part of this board and check how many of the fatalities are due to a double malfunction. Personally I wouldn't go and compare it with other (more) dangerous activities unless you need filler. Most of these comparisons are kinda lame. Stick to the subject! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #11 March 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteBut honestly, if I were the grader, I'd give you a zero for topic selection. Skydiving isn't safe. I'm not sure that matters on a persuasion paper... But if I were doing it I wouldn't necessarily argue that skydiving is safe... I would focus on how we (as skydivers) mitigate the risks involved in skydiving. aye, it would depend on the intended instruction. Topic selection in itself is an important skill and I would stress it. But for some discourse/debate classes, the ability to argue a wrong side is part of the game. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #12 March 22, 2006 I think it's an interesting topic to cover... Some people already think it's safer than they think, while others think it's more dangerous than it really is. It's not a death sport where 1 in 100 jumps result in death, but comparable to a lot of the other 'dangerous' extreme sports. Let's turn this around, and turn it into a "risk analysis" paper that covers arguments from both sides, the "dangerous" camp and the "safe" camp, and some comparisions. Although statistics can be thrown about, I particularly like the frequently quoted "While skydiving is a dangerous activity, doing 17 skydives is roughly equal in risk in terms of death rates to driving a car for 10,000 miles" .... Even the U.S. army has quoted something similiar. (Not the same wording, but the number 17 in jumps and the number 10,000 for miles). I believe it was based on 2004 death statistics (or was it 1999?). There's a "but", though... Even though I like to use this quote with whuffo friends (And this is a more proper and balanced one-sentence quote than "skydiving is safer than driving"), even this is still overly simplistic, as when one learns skydiving, there are dangers like broken legs or paralysis caused by a bad swoop or whatever... And death rates are likely very different among different classes of skydivers -- swoopers versus accuracy landers, etc. And even all the above isn't still yet enough on its own. One needs to educate the whuffo about the dangers of skydiving AND how skydiving is made safer than it would otherwise be. And write it in Plain whuffo-friendly English. Let the reader make their own educated decision. Edcuate the essay reader with good points from both sides, researched carefully. It is true that not everyone wants to be helpful and skydiving IS dangerous (and there are still yet going to be moments that scare me shitless -- like my upcoming first reserve ride -- I know it'll happen eventually...and I know I'm in the danger zone of the "complacent" 100-to-500 jump range.) And don't even listen to me or quote me. I'm too newbie to be authoritative, but this is a worthy school paper topic if the paper goals are tweaked slightly... It an interesting subject, however, it should be spun into more of a kind of a "risk analysis" paper rather than a "safety persuasion" paper, while still passing a "persuasion" criteria required of a classroom assignment. Let's be helpful here. Better a school student gets proper information than misinformation. Or the media (inaccurate information). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wobblyhead 0 #13 March 22, 2006 Skydiving's only really as safe as the person doing it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_owen_uk 0 #14 March 22, 2006 Lets get this straight people, Tawnya states that "The point is to persuade people that skydiving is actually quite safe". Now unless I am missing something she doesn't say it is safe, simply that the point is to persuade people that it is. Usually the way to do that is to give an unbalanced opinion, for example; We use a slider to slow down the deployment of a parachute, as going from 120Mph to 5mph this makes terminal openings much safer. Obviously that statement doesn't state what would happen if you packed incorrectly or had bad body position etc. etc. But it is a persuasive arguement as to how skydiving is safe. Tawnya as you may realise reading this, most skydivers are very eager (and rightly so) to tell people the reality of skydiving, it isn't safe and shouldn't be described that way.__________________ BOOM Headshot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #15 March 22, 2006 QuoteHey anyone who knows enough to tell, I am writing a persuasive pap for English311 and the point is to persuade people that skydiving is actually quite safe. If you have ANY info on this subject I'd be glad to have it. Thanks! Tawnya email me at liveitupa85@hotmail.com[.email] What you need is a little coaching on how to lie with statistics. Let's start with the minor observation that life if essentially fatal. From there you could argue that dying while skydiving is as good a way to go as any. "What do you mean, dangerous? Hell, he was going to die anyway!" Point out that someone is (slightly) more likely to die while playing 18 holes of golf than when making a single skydive. Do not note that death on the golf course rarely has anything to do with the game itself (heart attack, stroke, allergic reaction to beestings, snakebite, drowning in a water trap, lightning strike and so forth), but that death while skydiving is almost always related to skydiving. In any event, you should keep in mind that the contention that skydiving is "safe" is unadulterated bullshit. The contention that parachuting is pleasant, harmless fun - except for those occasions that involve being maimed or killed - is a rather weak one. If you approach skydiving from the standpoint of active risk analysis, fine. If you skydive based on the assumption that it is "quite safe," I suggest you seek out a hobby that more closely resembles that description. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpah 0 #16 March 22, 2006 Do a tandem and get some real life data. At the very least, go to a DZ and talk to the fun jumpers. Heck, about $30 in Samuel Adams should get you enough research and help you clinch the grade. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #17 March 22, 2006 You are mistaken that skydiving is quite safe. It is actually quite dangerous. You may not realize this, but unless a large number of things go more or less exactly as planned, you will likely be seriously hurt or killed. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #18 March 22, 2006 QuoteYou may not realize this, but unless a large number of things go more or less exactly as planned, you will likely be seriously hurt or killed. Name any activity that this quote isn't an apt descritpion of... some quick examples of things this quote would fit 1 all airline travel 2 cars .. well with 1 all forms of mechanized travel 3 any and ALL medical procedures down to taking a pill 4 all adventure sports ... even down to riding a roller coaster 5 oh heres a big one eating processed/caned food! I'm not saying skydiving is safe, just that this a worthless arguement Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #19 March 22, 2006 Quote Some people already think it's safer than they think, My brain hurts from trying to figure that out. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #20 March 22, 2006 QuoteYou may not realize this, but unless a large number of things go more or less exactly as planned, you will likely be seriously hurt or killed. I'm not sure there's anyone in the world that doesn't realize that, except apparently for some new skydivers. People are missing the point about this being a persuasive paper. You don't have to believe it to write it. You just need to write it in a way that convinces others. A paper that says lion taming is dangerous doesn't persuade anybody to believe anything. Everybody knows lion taming is dangerous. It's obvious. Now go write a paper that says lion taming is SAFE and if you can get others to believe it, whether or not you do, mission accomplished. A+. It's not hard to spin skydiving as being "safe." How many SKYDIVERS have said right here on dropzone.com that skydiving is safe? Tons of em. If some people that hurl themselves out of planes, hoping to be saved by some paper thin nylon and some strings, believe that what they're doing is SAFE, it shouldn't be too hard to write a persuasive paper on the subject to a non-skydiving audience. Just because it's not true doesn't mean ya can't write a convincing argument for it. We might not call skydiving safe, but we do think of it as being "safe enough" right? Otherwise we wouldn't do it. I don't think in terms of safe and unsafe. It's one giant gray area. It's a matter of risk level. Is flying in a plane safe? Safer than skydiving? Sure. But safe? Depends on your definition of safe. An alcoholic lion tamer might think of skydiving as pretty damn safe... Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #21 March 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteYou may not realize this, but unless a large number of things go more or less exactly as planned, you will likely be seriously hurt or killed. Name any activity that this quote isn't an apt descritpion of... In most activities, you need a large number of things to go the wrong way to form a chain of death. It's very unusual for just one bad element to turn the tide. You can screw up a lot of things bowling. So long as your cardiovascular system isn't full of plaque, you'll probably live to roll again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #22 March 22, 2006 single failure in formulation, or dilution and medicine is toxic, single failure in sterilization and canned food is toxic, single failure of a breakline in a car and you (MAY) be hurt or die, SINGLE metal fatigue failure in an airliner and you (MAY) find yourself in an unplanned no parachute free fall... I could go on. but you get the point, that things can go wrong is not an arguement why skydiving is dangerous. gravity makes that arguement all by itself Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #23 March 22, 2006 I feel skydiving is safer than a 140 mile round trip commute on a motorcylce to the DZ on Southern California freeways...Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #24 March 22, 2006 QuoteSome people already think it's safer than they think, Usually it's the other way around. But there are cases of vice-versa as well. Including the occasional newbie posting that they know skydiving is safer than driving as an example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #25 March 22, 2006 It can be safe relative to something that is extremely hazardous. Coming into this sport from a rock climbing background, it seems like there are many parallels. When climbing, I did everything within my control to stay safe, which vastly increased my odds of survival. Was I safe because of this? No, but I was as safe as I could be considering what I was doing. A few times I was narrowly missed by microwave oven sized rocks falling from above, which I had no way of controlling. Other climbers were sometimes to blame for pulling these rocks off from above, which I also could not control. Also, I saw people hurt and killed in the mountains, which is sobering, to say the least. I pushed myself a bit at times, but always tried to stay within my abilities, or at least in a place where an error would not get me or someone else killed. Knowing how much to push is also key in staying safe, or at least safer. Often, friends would ask me why 'stupid climbers' continue up Mt. Everest just after the death of a fellow climber. I ask them why they don't call off an NFL football game after a player is carried off the field on a stretcher. That actually seemed to work pretty well. Safe? No. Nothing truly is. Acceptable risk? Maybe. How much does it mean to you? Good Luck Scott -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
