lister55 0 #1 June 30, 2004 I have been selling a stiletto 170 and recently started getting emails from a guy who wanted to buy it. First he offered trades then offered to buy it unseen. I started wondering if this person was trying to get something he shouldnt have. I asked for his experience and got this reply.... __________________________________________________ you need to have a imfo before you sell it? pay pal...now or never I dont have to give you any imfo,..... do you want to sale it or not __________________________________________________ Remeber when selling gear, you should try as best as you can to keep people safe. Sure someone can lie, but this reply says it all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffD 0 #2 June 30, 2004 That guy is not even literate. Come back Ali! Come back Ali's sister. -Sbad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #3 June 30, 2004 QuoteThat guy is not even literate. Come back Ali! Come back Ali's sister. -Sbad. How do you know he is not literate? English might not be his first language. But agreed. Hokey. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #4 June 30, 2004 Buying it unseen definately makes sense if he's from overseas...... I bought 2 canopies and a wingsuit like that. Although I hope my english is beter than his you can't expect the rest of the world to write perfect english If he's not from another country, it's your call...... I can kinda sympathise with not giving out info tho. I feel I am responsible for what I buy, not anybody else, definately not somebody who does not know me at all and is not from Square1 or similar. If 'the mothering' would go past a certain level, even tho you may mean it well, it would bug me too. Then again, if you don't want to you don't have to sell it of course. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #5 June 30, 2004 If he's that resistant about giving out any info like that, he's probably another low jump chump wanting to be under a hp canopy but doesn't want to admit he knows nothing about it. Personally, I wouldn't sell it to him without any info of his experience (as if he didn't give it away already), but that's just me. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpecialKaye 0 #6 June 30, 2004 I have a Sabre 170 that I had thought about selling. I saw a post on rec. (before DZ.com) of someone looking for a Sabre 170, so I responded to him privately and asked him experience level, weight, blah, blah, blah. He responds back with his experience...40 jumps, 210 without gear...so I send him this nice e-mail back and let him know "I regret I cannot sell you this in good conscience..." He blasts me because I couldn't live with myself if he had that canopy with his experience and killed himself. I would feel unbelievably responsible. You're doing the right thing, however, we all know that if it's what he has his heart set on, he'll get it. You won't be responsible for his breaking himself or worse, killing himself. His ego is out of control. Blue skies, Kaye Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lister55 0 #7 June 30, 2004 Buying it unseen definately makes sense if he's from overseas Quote He is not from overseas. He even left a message on my phone inquiring about the canopy. If 'the mothering' would go past a certain level, even tho you may mean it well, it would bug me too. Quote The "mothering" did not go anywhere. I simply asked him how many jumps he had and how current he was under his current canopy. I got more emails from him today stating that I should sell it to anyone who wants it and that I wasted his time with all the emails he had to send me. The tone this guy has had the whole time just does not add up. I agree that some information may not be my business, but the info I was asking for is certainly standard and should asked by everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites elfanie 0 #8 June 30, 2004 I'm rather torn on this issue... I understand that an experienced jumper wouldn't want to encourage someone to do something that is dangerous... however, I also believe it is up to us to protect ourselves and decide for ourselves how much risk we're willing to take....and if someone wants to do something stupid like fly an aggressive canopy at a low skill level, why is it up to anyone else to stop him? especially a canopy seller? Either he's going to fly it fine... or he's going to hurt himself. if he's a danger to others in the sky (or landing area), then wouldn't that be an issue for their DZO or S&TA? not a canopy seller? I'm not sure that I wouldn't sell the canopy to him...after saying, "this is an aggressive canopy that should only be used by highly experienced jumpers and you should have a good understanding of wing loading before using it..." after that...if he bought it from me...that's on him, not me....so long as s/he's an adult.... although, again, I understand not wanting the guilt if you felt responsible somehow if s/he got hurt or injured.. I just don't really believe that it would be your responsibility... like I said...I sort of see both sides and am torn..although obviously I'm leaning more towards the, "all of us adults are responsible for our own choices and decisions with informed consent..." -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #9 June 30, 2004 Hey Mark, I'm sure you already know what I'm going to say but just in case If this jumper were to call up PD and request a demo they'd have to give the information you asked for (Jump #'s, etc). PD would then make a decision whether or not to send the demo based on that information. If a jumper called up PD and refused to furnish the info PD wouldn't send a demo, it's as simple as that. What you are doing is no different. It's tempting I know, but I would not sell it to this person until they gave me the info I wanted. Oh and one other thing, if they responded to me in the manner they've done to you, the deal would be off anyway. You really want to work with someone who's uncooperative when it comes to dealing with money? Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #10 June 30, 2004 There are more then a few examples of sellers getting ripped off, in an assortment of scams. This sets off my personal warning bells, my first impression is that this is a scam. I think this guy can't answer your questions about experience because he has none, and doesn't know how to fake an answer. I think he's a wuffo, and you'll never get your cash. Be aware, be cautious, and if in doubt find another buyer. Stiletto's are popular canopies, so you shouldn't have any problems if you tell this guy off. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #11 June 30, 2004 You've listed the easy case. What if: You are selling a Xaos 104, and SuperSwoopMan@aol.com wants to buy it. He offers a good price. You ask him about his experience, and he says he has 1000 jumps under a Stiletto 104. You ask him if he meant a Stiletto 107, and he says "Yeah yeah, that's what I meant." He refuses to tell you which DZ he jumps at or where he's from. He refuses to give any references. What do you do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #12 June 30, 2004 Good question. Without really knowing the person, can you really be sure? The internet is perfect for posing as something you're not, 100 jumps can become 1000 jumps easily. Would you take the time to call the DZ he finally gives you, talk to the DZO, and see if the guy was for real? Although I like the idea of the seller trying to screen all this, I think the DZ has to be the main place to try and enforce safety. A guy can buy all the unsuitable canopies he wants, but he's not in danger 'til he gets on the plane with one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lister55 0 #13 June 30, 2004 Would you take the time to call the DZ he finally gives you, talk to the DZO, and see if the guy was for real? Quote When he wants to have the canopy inspected (as he should) I would be willing to send the canopy to his home DZ. Before I send I do call the DZ to make sure it is not an invalid number. At this time I inform the DZ of what is going on and make sure they are willing to be a third party to the transaction. It is my hope that if the DZ knows the person should not have that canopy they would say something. So yeah, in a round about way I do call the DZ to check him out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydogs 0 #14 June 30, 2004 Here's a general response to this thread.. Take a look in the incidents forum and see what the skydiving community has to say about the seller when someone with low jump numbers and an agressive canopy gets broken... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Push 0 #15 June 30, 2004 A good way to fix this problem is to tell the person that you would like to use some third party as a proxy for the transaction. You send them the canopy, the guy sends them the money, then the proxy sends everything off to the appropriate people. Here, you can say that you would like the proxy to be some DZO but you don't have any in mind, so they will have to suggest one or not get the canopy. Business, nothing personal. Then, when you have a DZO, you can secretly use them to find out more stuff about the person. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ManBird 0 #16 June 30, 2004 QuoteI have been selling a stiletto 170 and recently started getting emails from a guy who wanted to buy it. First he offered trades then offered to buy it unseen. I started wondering if this person was trying to get something he shouldnt have. I asked for his experience and got this reply.... __________________________________________________ you need to have a imfo before you sell it? pay pal...now or never I dont have to give you any imfo,..... do you want to sale it or not __________________________________________________ Remeber when selling gear, you should try as best as you can to keep people safe. Sure someone can lie, but this reply says it all. When I've sold gear in the past, and also when people contact me about visiting Molalla to do their first wingsuit flight, I contact their DZ's S&TA. People can, and sometimes do, lie about their experience. I was contacted for a FFC by someone claiming to have 350 jumps. I contacted the S&TA of this jumper's home DZ and found that they had less than 70. It feels sneaky and dirty, but it really is in their best interest."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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elfanie 0 #8 June 30, 2004 I'm rather torn on this issue... I understand that an experienced jumper wouldn't want to encourage someone to do something that is dangerous... however, I also believe it is up to us to protect ourselves and decide for ourselves how much risk we're willing to take....and if someone wants to do something stupid like fly an aggressive canopy at a low skill level, why is it up to anyone else to stop him? especially a canopy seller? Either he's going to fly it fine... or he's going to hurt himself. if he's a danger to others in the sky (or landing area), then wouldn't that be an issue for their DZO or S&TA? not a canopy seller? I'm not sure that I wouldn't sell the canopy to him...after saying, "this is an aggressive canopy that should only be used by highly experienced jumpers and you should have a good understanding of wing loading before using it..." after that...if he bought it from me...that's on him, not me....so long as s/he's an adult.... although, again, I understand not wanting the guilt if you felt responsible somehow if s/he got hurt or injured.. I just don't really believe that it would be your responsibility... like I said...I sort of see both sides and am torn..although obviously I'm leaning more towards the, "all of us adults are responsible for our own choices and decisions with informed consent..." -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #9 June 30, 2004 Hey Mark, I'm sure you already know what I'm going to say but just in case If this jumper were to call up PD and request a demo they'd have to give the information you asked for (Jump #'s, etc). PD would then make a decision whether or not to send the demo based on that information. If a jumper called up PD and refused to furnish the info PD wouldn't send a demo, it's as simple as that. What you are doing is no different. It's tempting I know, but I would not sell it to this person until they gave me the info I wanted. Oh and one other thing, if they responded to me in the manner they've done to you, the deal would be off anyway. You really want to work with someone who's uncooperative when it comes to dealing with money? Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #10 June 30, 2004 There are more then a few examples of sellers getting ripped off, in an assortment of scams. This sets off my personal warning bells, my first impression is that this is a scam. I think this guy can't answer your questions about experience because he has none, and doesn't know how to fake an answer. I think he's a wuffo, and you'll never get your cash. Be aware, be cautious, and if in doubt find another buyer. Stiletto's are popular canopies, so you shouldn't have any problems if you tell this guy off. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #11 June 30, 2004 You've listed the easy case. What if: You are selling a Xaos 104, and SuperSwoopMan@aol.com wants to buy it. He offers a good price. You ask him about his experience, and he says he has 1000 jumps under a Stiletto 104. You ask him if he meant a Stiletto 107, and he says "Yeah yeah, that's what I meant." He refuses to tell you which DZ he jumps at or where he's from. He refuses to give any references. What do you do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #12 June 30, 2004 Good question. Without really knowing the person, can you really be sure? The internet is perfect for posing as something you're not, 100 jumps can become 1000 jumps easily. Would you take the time to call the DZ he finally gives you, talk to the DZO, and see if the guy was for real? Although I like the idea of the seller trying to screen all this, I think the DZ has to be the main place to try and enforce safety. A guy can buy all the unsuitable canopies he wants, but he's not in danger 'til he gets on the plane with one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lister55 0 #13 June 30, 2004 Would you take the time to call the DZ he finally gives you, talk to the DZO, and see if the guy was for real? Quote When he wants to have the canopy inspected (as he should) I would be willing to send the canopy to his home DZ. Before I send I do call the DZ to make sure it is not an invalid number. At this time I inform the DZ of what is going on and make sure they are willing to be a third party to the transaction. It is my hope that if the DZ knows the person should not have that canopy they would say something. So yeah, in a round about way I do call the DZ to check him out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydogs 0 #14 June 30, 2004 Here's a general response to this thread.. Take a look in the incidents forum and see what the skydiving community has to say about the seller when someone with low jump numbers and an agressive canopy gets broken... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Push 0 #15 June 30, 2004 A good way to fix this problem is to tell the person that you would like to use some third party as a proxy for the transaction. You send them the canopy, the guy sends them the money, then the proxy sends everything off to the appropriate people. Here, you can say that you would like the proxy to be some DZO but you don't have any in mind, so they will have to suggest one or not get the canopy. Business, nothing personal. Then, when you have a DZO, you can secretly use them to find out more stuff about the person. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ManBird 0 #16 June 30, 2004 QuoteI have been selling a stiletto 170 and recently started getting emails from a guy who wanted to buy it. First he offered trades then offered to buy it unseen. I started wondering if this person was trying to get something he shouldnt have. I asked for his experience and got this reply.... __________________________________________________ you need to have a imfo before you sell it? pay pal...now or never I dont have to give you any imfo,..... do you want to sale it or not __________________________________________________ Remeber when selling gear, you should try as best as you can to keep people safe. Sure someone can lie, but this reply says it all. When I've sold gear in the past, and also when people contact me about visiting Molalla to do their first wingsuit flight, I contact their DZ's S&TA. People can, and sometimes do, lie about their experience. I was contacted for a FFC by someone claiming to have 350 jumps. I contacted the S&TA of this jumper's home DZ and found that they had less than 70. It feels sneaky and dirty, but it really is in their best interest."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
skydogs 0 #14 June 30, 2004 Here's a general response to this thread.. Take a look in the incidents forum and see what the skydiving community has to say about the seller when someone with low jump numbers and an agressive canopy gets broken... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #15 June 30, 2004 A good way to fix this problem is to tell the person that you would like to use some third party as a proxy for the transaction. You send them the canopy, the guy sends them the money, then the proxy sends everything off to the appropriate people. Here, you can say that you would like the proxy to be some DZO but you don't have any in mind, so they will have to suggest one or not get the canopy. Business, nothing personal. Then, when you have a DZO, you can secretly use them to find out more stuff about the person. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #16 June 30, 2004 QuoteI have been selling a stiletto 170 and recently started getting emails from a guy who wanted to buy it. First he offered trades then offered to buy it unseen. I started wondering if this person was trying to get something he shouldnt have. I asked for his experience and got this reply.... __________________________________________________ you need to have a imfo before you sell it? pay pal...now or never I dont have to give you any imfo,..... do you want to sale it or not __________________________________________________ Remeber when selling gear, you should try as best as you can to keep people safe. Sure someone can lie, but this reply says it all. When I've sold gear in the past, and also when people contact me about visiting Molalla to do their first wingsuit flight, I contact their DZ's S&TA. People can, and sometimes do, lie about their experience. I was contacted for a FFC by someone claiming to have 350 jumps. I contacted the S&TA of this jumper's home DZ and found that they had less than 70. It feels sneaky and dirty, but it really is in their best interest."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
