I have a question

[seminole1221 0]

I'm not a skydiver, but I have a friend who died two days ago in a skydiving accident. He apparently blacked out and never pulled his chute. I'm just trying to find out what causes a person to blackout while falling...I've searched for some answers and still havent found what I'm looking for. Please help so I can have more understanding of what happened.

[wmw999 2,447]

It's a good question. We don't know exactly what happened either in this case. The most important thing that someone can do on a skydive is to open their parachute.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[NelKel 0]

>>He apparently blacked out and never pulled his chute

>>Please help so I can have more understanding of what happened.


Were trying to figure it out also. Tell us what led to believe he blacked out. As his friend, do you have any knowledge of his medical history? Did he have a history of epileptic seizures? What about heart attack, or stroke?

Sorry for the loss of your friend.

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[seminole1221 0]

I really don't know of anything that would have led to it. The reason I believe he blacked out is because we heard first hand from someone who jumped with him that he never even reached for his rip cord..And thats the reason that said it could have happened...I don't know, I'm just trying to piece it all together.

[marks 0]

I spoke with somone who had talked to him early that day and they said he was very happy and excited about jumping with the people he was jumping with. didnt seem upset or depressed or anything. I have met him a few times before and was a very happy person that everyone seemed to like. I have talked to a few people at the drop zone, and getting the impression that they dont know either.

I have a hard time believing he just stared at the ground.

this is very sad, and im sorry for your loss. hopefully more will come out soon.

[skymedic 0]

People dont just fall stable into the ground if there unconscious or blacked out....they will tend to go to there backs and spin if they go limp.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[Tink1717 2]

Your friend probably did not black out. Reports so far indicate that he was flat and stable all the way in. Unconscious people in freefall don't go in that way. They tend to, at the very least, spin and tumble. What likely happened to your friend was that something distracted him and he lost altitude awareness. This is a known phenomenon in skydiving.

Please accept my sympathy for your loss.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[marks 0]

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People dont just fall stable into the ground if there unconscious or blacked out....they will tend to go to there backs and spin if they go limp.

thats why I say i have a hard time believing he just stared at the ground.

something else had to be wrong.

[diverdriver 5]

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People dont just fall stable into the ground if there unconscious or blacked out....they will tend to go to there backs and spin if they go limp.

thats why I say i have a hard time believing he just stared at the ground.

something else had to be wrong.

Why? He wouldn't be the first to be completely unaware of altitude. There have been plenty of documented Cypres saves where the jumper had no idea what altitude they were at. There didn't have to be something wrong. Maybe there was. Maybe there wasn't. But it's not an absolute.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[marks 0]

why?

whaat im getting at, is i think it is unreasonable to think suicide. mybe I wasnt clear sorry. hard pull followed by loss of altitude awareness, but others report they didnt even see him go for it...

[JohnRich 4]

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I'm just trying to find out what causes a person to blackout while falling...

In addition to what others have already said, I'll just add this.

There is nothing inherent in skydiving that makes one prone to black-out in freefall. You can breathe normally, just like on the ground.

A few exceptions come to mind:
1) High-altitude jumps where oxygen is required, and;
2) Spinning out of control at a high rate.
But from what I've heard so far, neither of these applies to this fatality.

If the jumper was unconscious in freefall, the likelihood would be that it was caused by some pre-existing medical condition. This has happened before. But from the reports of his body position, this too seems unlikely.

Sorry for your loss.

[skymedic 0]

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whaat im getting at, is i think it is unreasonable to think suicide.

I don't think you can rule that out. I'm not saying this is what happened...but on no pull incidents where someone is flat and stable till impact you can not rule this out as a possibility regardless of his perceived mental state.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[marks 0]

not rule it out, but that should be the last thing looked at.

[jumpnrandy 0]

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***
I don't think you can rule that out. I'm not saying this is what happened...but on no pull incidents where someone is flat and stable till impact you can not rule this out as a possibility regardless of his perceived mental state.

I'm very sorry this happened. However, I could not agree more. I was on the plane with the guy jumping out of Rome, several years ago, where he did a hop n pop from 13,500 and then shot himself while under canopy.

How bazaar! How bazaar!

While I don't remember his name, it was his third jump of the day. He was from a neighboring DZ and was in absolute great spirits. (Or so it seemed) Then again, while waiting to meet the plane at Lake Wales in 1997, I watched two guys keep tossing a cue ball to each other until they both had Cypress Fires right over the landing area. Again, all I can think is:

How bazaar! How bazaar!

My best to family and friends.

Randy

[skymedic 0]

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not rule it out, but that should be the last thing looked at.

Agreed.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[skrovi 0]

why didn't the AAD activate the reserve? what is his experience level?

[MooChooser 0]

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why didn't the AAD activate the reserve? what is his experience level?

Obviously it either wasnt turned on or he didnt have one.

[Remster 30]

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why didn't the AAD activate the reserve? what is his experience level?

Obviously it either wasnt turned on or he didnt have one.

He didnt have one in the borrowed gear he was jumping.

Remster

[riggerrob 643]

"Deer in the headlights" would be my first guess.

[jlmiracle 7]

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People dont just fall stable into the ground if there unconscious or blacked out....they will tend to go to there backs and spin if they go limp.

thats why I say i have a hard time believing he just stared at the ground.

something else had to be wrong.

In a different incident years ago a jump was knocked unconscious but know one knew because he appeared to be "tracking" and in a "stable" position.

I don't think all will tumble if incapacitated.

j

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[thepollster 0]

No disrespect intended, but his nickname was "Spicoli", right? Was this because he smoked a lot of pot? It wouldn't be the first time someone went in on a no-pull while high.

[Orange1 0]

In relation to a different incident talking to experienced jumpers and also with a mod here (can't remember which, PM conversation close to a year ago... billvon?) I have been told that it is indeed possible to fall stable while unconscious.

This leads to another potential problem, that even with an AAD there is a possibility of the reserve PC getting caught in the jumper's burble leading to PC hesitation that is not cleared.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[JohnRich 4]

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whaat im getting at, is i think it is unreasonable to think suicide.

I don't think you can rule that out. I'm not saying this is what happened...but on no pull incidents where someone is flat and stable till impact you can not rule this out as a possibility regardless of his perceived mental state.

I've known far too many people over the last few decades who committed suicide. Many of them seemed to be happy-go-lucky people, with a lot going for them. So the one thing I've learned, is that almost no one saw it coming, for any of them. Their suicide deaths were a total shock to nearly everyone. We never really know what is deep in the minds of our friends.

So, while we would hate to see that be the cause of this death, it's something that should not be ruled out entirely. Those who know the deceased most intimately should consider the possibility, however remote it may seem.

[jerm 0]

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not rule it out, but that should be the last thing looked at.

is it? According to what i've read, elevated mood just before suicide is common. The thought is that the person is releived, having made their decision, having 'found a way out' or whatever, like a weight off their shoulders.

Mind you, i'm not a psychologist, and this was a few years back, but IF it was a sucicide it woulnd't be the first where the person was in a deceptively good mood preceding it.

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[skymedic 0]

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is it? According to what i've read, elevated mood just before suicide is common. The thought is that the person is releived, having made their decision, having 'found a way out' or whatever, like a weight off their shoulders.

Mind you, i'm not a psychologist, and this was a few years back, but IF it was a sucicide it woulnd't be the first where the person was in a deceptively good mood preceding it.

You are very correct. Typicaly people that truly want to committ suicide will not tell anyone...and will have a period of euphoria before it happens. It is as you said, a relief that the deicision is made and they no longer have to worry about issues in this life anymore. Happens very often.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....