Does your Dropzone have wind holds?

[valcore 0]

Just trying to get a feel of things here. Does your dropzone make a call on wind and not allow licensed jumpers to jump. At what point do they call it (i.e wind speed)

As an example we had 12-14 steady gusting to 21 today. We did not put a single plain up regardless of the number of people who wanted to jump and the sunny weather.

Any thoughts?

The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I'm from the government and I'm here to help’. ~Ronald Reagan

30,000,000 legal firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

[gemini 0]

We were jumping today at Spaceland until the dzo called a "weather" wind hold. Winds had been increasing and suddenly started gusting with about a 10-15 mph swing. Good call although he had to issue a butt-load of rain checks for tandems.

Blue skies,

Jim

[bob.dino 1]

Yep, we do have wind holds, and we occasionally call a full plane down. Not sure at what speed this occurs, but for reference, the max speeds allowed by the Op Regs are:

5.2.7. Descents shall not be made when the wind speed exceeds the following limits or any

lower limit determined by the DZSO:

(a) Student parachutists ………………………………………….. 15 knots

(b) Parachutists holding a Certificate “A” or “B” …………...…… 20 knots

(c) Parachutists other than students and not using ramair

main and reserve parachutes ………………………………. 20 knots

(d) Parachutists holding at least a Certificate “C” and using

ram air main and reserve parachutes ………………………….. 25 knots

(see also 5.7.10.A and 5.7.10.B, display descents and 5.5.2, night descents.)


Wind speed should be measured at a height of 30 feet above the DZ. If measured at

eye level, add 25% to the reading. Wind speed should be below the above limits for

at least 10 minutes before commencing or resuming operations.

For reference: Certificate C requires at least 100 jumps.

[tombuch 0]

Nope. If the jumpers want to jump and the pilot wants to fly, then the load goes.

Sometimes a senior jumper will step up to the microphone and suggest that everybody evaluate the winds, and it's common for most experienced jumpers to stand down and encourage the less experienced to stay on the ground. Generally most of the junior jumpers listen, so we don't have a whole lot of "fun" jumpers leaping into dangerous wind conditions.

For the most part the folks who jump under any conditions are the tandem instructors with their students, and even in that department there isn't a fixed point for a wind hold. If enough tandem instructors are willing to go, and the load can be sort of filled with tandems, then the load goes. Tandem instructors can say no and stand down, and a few do, but as a group they have a much higher tolerance for wind and risk.

So, no we don't have official wind holds.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[gemini 0]

Interesting incident in Dallas in January. We were there to do 30-ways. On Sunday morning, the pilots said they would not fly. After the event was called, we found out there was wind shear at 800 ft.

Good call by the pilots!

Blue skies,

Jim

[Samurai136 0]

USPA SIM 2-1

F. WINDS (S)
Maximum ground winds
1. For all solo students
a. 14 mph for ram-air canopies
b. 10 mph for round reserves
2. For licensed skydivers are unlimited

Generally speaking most weather holds are initiated when there are not enough skydivers willing to jump in present wind/ weather conditions.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[valcore 0]

Quote

USPA SIM 2-1

F. WINDS (S)
Maximum ground winds
1. For all solo students
a. 14 mph for ram-air canopies
b. 10 mph for round reserves
2. For licensed skydivers are unlimited

Generally speaking most weather holds are initiated when there are not enough skydivers willing to jump in present wind/ weather conditions.

Interesting we have 2 quotes from the sim here but FYI we did have enough people to put a load up. I am not sure why we did not go, leaning towards DZ money politics. Most of the instructors wanted to jump said the weather was fine. The strange thing is I remember jumping in much stronger wind gusts at my dropzone, I think this is why I am a little confused about the situation.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I'm from the government and I'm here to help’. ~Ronald Reagan

30,000,000 legal firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

[bob.dino 1]

Quote

Interesting we have 2 quotes from the sim here

One. Op Regs = APF, and has nothing to do with the USPA.

Quote

leaning towards DZ money politics. Most of the instructors wanted to jump said the weather was fine.

By "DZ money politics" do you mean that the DZO was going to lose money by starting up the plane? Quite possible. Starting up a turbine just to do one load does seem to be an expensive proposition.

[angryelf 0]

Just depends on the DZ. Did a jump today at 18kt winds gusting to 25kts. The DZO tried to talk me out of it-but I let him know I was ready to go and wound up having a sweet jump.(didn't want to land with the plane b/c the winds were cross wind to the runway). Most of the Drop Zones I've been to-it is up to the jumper as long as he/she is licensed and wants to get out.

"Sometimes you eat the bar,
and well-sometimes the bar eats you..."

[grasshopper 0]

Quote

USPA SIM 2-1

F. WINDS (S)
Maximum ground winds
1. For all solo students
a. 14 mph for ram-air canopies
b. 10 mph for round reserves
2. For licensed skydivers are unlimited

Generally speaking most weather holds are initiated when there are not enough skydivers willing to jump in present wind/ weather conditions.

It depends on the drop zone. as an example, perris shut down this afternoon due to winds, even though people were still willing to jump. I have also seen other dzs refuse to put up a load due to a strong crosswind (over the runway).

________________________________________________________
Abbie drove me to Idaho and all I got was this lousy sigline

[dharma1976 0]

yeah same as tom but my general rule is if john skinner aint jumping I aint jumping...

Cheers

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[justinb138 0]

Quote

Just depends on the DZ. Did a jump today at 18kt winds gusting to 25kts. The DZO tried to talk me out of it-but I let him know I was ready to go and wound up having a sweet jump.

Ever stop and think why he was trying to talk you out of it?

[NWFlyer 2]

I've never seen them at my home DZ (except for students), not to say they don't happen, but at DeLand today they put out a "C license hold," restricting jumping to those with a C license and above. A lot of the locals stayed on the ground and I decided to as well.

Personally, I usually look at the student wind holds and the most experienced folks at the DZ. If they're sitting down and I'm not, I wonder why, and usually join them.

Ultimately, it's a DZO's call, no matter how many people want to jump. I respect that.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Samurai136 0]

Quote

I've never seen them at my home DZ (except for students), not to say they don't happen, but at DeLand today they put out a "C license hold," restricting jumping to those with a C license and above. A lot of the locals stayed on the ground and I decided to as well.

Personally, I usually look at the student wind holds and the most experienced folks at the DZ. If they're sitting down and I'm not, I wonder why, and usually join them.

Ultimately, it's a DZO's call, no matter how many people want to jump. I respect that.

The USPA BSR's are minimum saftey requirements. There's nothing to prevent each dropzone from developing their own higher levels of safety. I have never had a problem with going on a weather hold at any DZ.

It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air; than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[AggieDave 6]

The DZO rarely states "nope, the load won't fly." However, when the upper handful of the most experienced jumpers at my DZ (who are typically on every load they can be on, working or playing) don't want to go jump due to wind, the rest of the DZ typically agrees. Today we had great weather, just winds gusting from 12 to nearly 30mph. No one wanted to jump, so some cool things that needed to get done around the DZ got done followed by a few good games of poker.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[GTAVercetti 0]

We don't do wind holds. If there are enough people, it flies.

However, as it may have been mentioned, those that know better will not get on a load and often have the effect of placing everyone else effectively on a hold. Which is usually a good thing.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[tbrown 26]

Two weeks ago at Perris we had a powerful Santa Ana (that's a desert wind for those of you back east) kick up a little past noon. First thing they did was to put all the tandems and other students on hold. Manifest also got on the horn and advised to one & all that winds were 15 - 20 knots and gusting and that we should feel sure about whether we were comfortable jumping in those conditions. At that point a number of jumpers (myself and friends included) decided to scratch off our load. A few more loads went up and then the uppers got so powerful and unpredictable that manifest announced they were shutting down operations for the day. So I guess we do have wind holds.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[tombuch 0]

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As an example we had 12-14 steady gusting to 21 today. We did not put a single plain up regardless of the number of people who wanted to jump and the sunny weather.

Any thoughts?

I answered your question directly a few posts ago, but as the thread developed it was looking like some people are trying to figure out when it's ok to jump, and when its not. A wind hold is an easy way to answer that question for everybody, but many DZ's expect jumpers to make their own decisions and thus don't institute a hold.

One of the management based concerns about using wind holds is that if the winds are significant enough to generate a hold today and we call the hold for everybody, but tomorrow they are just a bit lower (or higher) and we don't call a hold then we may open ourselves up to liability if somebody is hurt. It's a funny concept that suggests management either needs to take the initiative every time, or leave the responsibility on the jumpers every time.

In any event, if you are wondering how to decide or evaluate the winds, check out article 6 "Evaluating Wind and Turbulence" on The Ranch S&TA page at http://theblueskyranch.com/STA.php. It was written specifically for The Ranch, but the concepts apply to any any drop zone. You might also want to read article 2, "Checking The Weather." That one is very-very specific to The Ranch but will give you an idea where to locate weather resources that cover your home DZ.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[TrickyDicky 0]

The UK is similar, but theres hard levels.

Students/people with round mains and or reserves 15knts
Everyone Else 20knts.

These limits are called in if you get 2 gusts over the limits within a 5 min period. If this occurs then jumping is called off for at least 30 minutes.

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[Reginald 0]

Quote

Just depends on the DZ. Did a jump today at 18kt winds gusting to 25kts. The DZO tried to talk me out of it-but I let him know I was ready to go and wound up having a sweet jump.(didn't want to land with the plane b/c the winds were cross wind to the runway). Most of the Drop Zones I've been to-it is up to the jumper as long as he/she is licensed and wants to get out.

Glad you lived, now spend the next month thinking that an experienced jumper was telling you that you were about to do an unsafe jump and you did it anyway. You got away with it this time….

"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Well... up in the SoCal Mojave Desert where I jump, its usually pretty much like other folks have said... the students go on a wind-hold at 14mph and the Tamdems at somthing over 20 / less then 30 or when ever the Tandmem Masters say "no-go". Experienced are pretty much self regulating. The DZO, who's also the pilot, owns the ultimate vote... if he doesn't want to fly, we're on a weather hold.

Personally, I can echo a lot of the comments made here about the more experienced folks pulling off of loads when the winds get high or things get turbulent before some of the less experienced up jumpers. I've been under canopy in high winds / turbulence more times then I care to think of doing the ... "wishing I was down there rather then up here"... thing.

Direction as well as intensity can play in to decissions too depending on your particular DZ. At Cal City... when the winds start coming up out of the west, across the Sierras, and the wave is running, it can get really turbulent under canopy and / or it can be doing less then 20 on the ground, but you go up a few hundred feet its doing 30, 40+ and in no time it can be doing that on the ground. Another scenario which may be more likely at other DZs for some to consider is if there is a building or buildings that the wind is blowing across as you're coming into land, you're probably more likely to see this at an experienced landing area then a student pit, but landing into the wind after its blown across some structures can create some difficult landing conditions. I've seen, or its happend to me, where you go to flare and you get nothing and hammer because you landing on the downwind side of something or other in high winds... sucks... you learn to not only look at the wind direction / speed in high winds, but what's also up-wind that will be creating disturbance and maybe finding an more open area to land in... a bit of a walk back to the hangar to get a beer beats an ambulance ride to get morphine in my book any day.

[seejanefall 0]

Yep, Ralph and a tandem master grounded me about a month and a half ago due to erratic gusty winds from the east (a very short landing approach at the DZ). Only one load went up that day, a tandem, and they got out a mile and a half away from the DZ, and fought all the way back to the DZ. Even though they landed safely in the middle of the peas, it was a little unnerving watching a tandem get pushed backwards. I didn't have a problem being grounded, I know they had my best interest in mind.

_____________
PMS #394

[FrEaK_aCcIdEnT 0]

well i sat at the DZ all day Sat. in the morning it was way to cold for me to want to go up and get out. so i opted to wait. turns out i should have froze my ass off. at least i would have made a jump.

after 1 or so winds got really crazy wierd. one minute it would be 13-15mph then the next a gust would come along at 22-25mph...

all in all i left like i have done many times before on average windy days. wishing i could get in the air.

there is always next weekend.

its not abnormal to see the limits when jumping at my DZ. for those who know winds are just another everday thing. its a patience training device.

ExPeCt ThE uNeXpEcTeD!
DoNt MiNd ThE tYpOs, Im LaZy On CoRrEcTiOnS!

[justinb138 0]

Don't worry, forecast shows it's going to be colder this next weekend, with highs in the mid- 40s.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Did a jump today at 18kt winds gusting to 25kts. The DZO tried to talk me out of it-but I let him know I was ready to go

Based on what? 65 jumps? How many of those jumps were you self-jumpmastering? Any jump where you had input from an instructor or coach, who was watching out for your well-being cannot be counted toward you jump numbers in reference to making a call in regards to weather.

How many jumps do you have on your canopy? Subtract all of your student jumps, and other rental gear situation, and look at how many jumps you have with that canopy, the canopy you took into those conditions.

What experience do you have in conditions approaching those you jumped in?

Seriously, you need to realize that skydiving is not a guaranteed activity. Going to the DZ does not mean you will jump. The sooner you accept this, the longer you will last in skydiving.

All the DZO was trying to do was tell you to put your money back in your pocket. That should go a long way toward how you take what he is telling you.