ddircksen 0 #1 January 26, 2006 Check this out... Skydivingmovies.com Seems the tandem went out with the upper hooks undone. Scarier than most I've seen... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #2 January 26, 2006 Crazy shit Camera guy had one hell of a time keeping up with that long delay before drouge deployment as he was finishing the hookup ... What an idiot. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #3 January 26, 2006 I remember seeing a tandem video where the tandem was only hooked up top. When the drogue came out, the passenger swung out to a vertical position then back. That was 12 years ago at my first home DZ (long since closed)."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bumgangster 0 #4 January 26, 2006 its good to know that you only need 1 connected, or so I heard Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #5 January 26, 2006 Does that mean automatic tandem licence loss??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #6 January 26, 2006 Quote Does that mean automatic tandem licence loss??? IMO, should be...My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #7 January 26, 2006 QuoteQuote Does that mean automatic tandem license loss??? IMO, should be... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yup! The last guy that forgot shoulder hooks - in Perris Valley, California - got fired. He had to do a few refresher dives with the local tandem examiner, then got a job at the DZ over the hill. Oh! And the textbook says that a single - 2,500 pound - hook is enough to keep the tandem pair together during an emergency exit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darnknit 0 #8 January 26, 2006 QuoteDoes that mean automatic tandem license loss??? Yup! The last guy that forgot shoulder hooks - in Perris Valley, California - got fired. He had to do a few refresher dives with the local tandem examiner, then got a job at the DZ over the hill. that doesn't sound like automatic tandem license loss. uncurrent instructors have to do refresher dives. now that i think of it, i have a few tandem ratings. i am not aware of any tandem licenses, so what are you yupping? blue stuff, p.j. pulling is cool. keep it in the skin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattFallsFast 0 #9 January 26, 2006 Quote The last guy that forgot shoulder hooks - in Perris Valley, California - got fired. He had to do a few refresher dives with the local tandem examiner, then got a job at the DZ over the hill. If this is true then I ask everyone: WHY EVEN BOTHER HAVING USPA LICENSES OR RATINGS?! Can anyone, anyone at all, tell me why we even bother having a USPA license system when something like this means you just go to the next "USPA Member" DZ over the hill and start taking tandems again? Aside from money to build a headquarters palace in DC, the licenses and rating appear to mean very little to nothing. This is a joke. If the USPA is nothing more than a lobby fund then call it that, I'll send you a few bucks to help furnish the headquarters with something shiny and don't bother me with meaningless license requirements again. (I yield back the balance of my time) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #10 January 26, 2006 That TM must have been high. He forgot to put his gogles on too. What a jackass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #11 January 26, 2006 in reply to "If the USPA is nothing more than a lobby fund then call it that, I'll send you a few bucks to help furnish the headquarters with something shiny and don't bother me with meaningless license requirements again. " .................... Beaurocratic cronyism incompetence and chest puffing ineffectiveness. spreads to the lower ranks and often comes from there to start with. If an incompetent member can't skydive properly or scares themselves a bit odds on they'll go for the board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #12 January 27, 2006 Isnt it the tandem gear manufactures that "license" or certify the tandem masters? I always thought anyway :) Mabey I'm confused. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #13 January 27, 2006 Both do. USPA and/or the manufacturer. Currently, you may do either and it will apply in the US. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #14 January 27, 2006 Actually, I think at USPA dropzones a person must be a USPA tandem intstructor reguardless, but I believe a USPA rating is sufficient for the manufacturer now is that it is. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #15 January 27, 2006 QuoteQuote The last guy that forgot shoulder hooks - in Perris Valley, California - got fired. He had to do a few refresher dives with the local tandem examiner, then got a job at the DZ over the hill. If this is true then I ask everyone: WHY EVEN BOTHER HAVING USPA LICENSES OR RATINGS?! Can anyone, anyone at all, tell me why we even bother having a USPA license system when something like this means you just go to the next "USPA Member" DZ over the hill and start taking tandems again? According to the person that posted the video, that incident happened in 1997. That was approximately the time the USPA Tandem rating came out. This TI may not have had the USPA tandem rating. USPA could have suspended his membership or other ratings. I have no idea if they did that. I don't know what jumper or what year Rob is talking about. But I probably do know the jumper. Rob hasn't been working at Perris for some time. I'm guessing his incident was also before the USPA tandem rating was around. The mfgs usually handled all the disciplinary actions against TIs. After all, they issued the rating and they can take it away. Sometimes, a local TE may say to a TI that if they go thru some more training they can keep their rating and the mfg and USPA will not be told about it. IOW, if the mfg or USPA do not know about an incident like this, there is little they can do. Usually, these incidents come to surface years after they happened. USPA does have a limited amount of time to pursue disciplinary action. (See the Governance Manual). About whether a TE should elevate this type of incident to the mfg/USPA - I think it should be. Not all TEs think like me or you. They may take it upon themselves to 'self-regulate' the jumper in question. If no one else privy to the incident reports it, there is nothing the mfg or USPA can do. DZs are not always forth-coming on things like this because it reflects poorly on them. Photographers are reluctant to report it to because they might lose future work. No amount of whining about USPA can change the fact that they may not have known about this at the time of the incident. Many safety issues are dealt with at the local level. Some issues are elevated to USPA. There are some issues that have been communicated to RDs, but the people that are witnesses are unwilling to state so, on record, to USPA. In those cases, there is nothing USPA can do, except give 'talking-to's to the 'suspects'. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #16 January 27, 2006 QuoteActually, I think at USPA dropzones a person must be a USPA tandem intstructor reguardless, but I believe a USPA rating is sufficient for the manufacturer now is that it is. There is a somewhat subtle difference here. Any tandem training jumpers must be done by a USPA TI. Other tandem jumps may be done by TIs rated only by the mfg, but they must meet the USPA currency requirements. See the BSRs for exact wording. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattFallsFast 0 #17 January 27, 2006 QuoteAbout whether a TE should elevate this type of incident to the mfg/USPA - I think it should be. Not all TEs think like me or you. They may take it upon themselves to 'self-regulate' the jumper in question. If no one else privy to the incident reports it, there is nothing the mfg or USPA can do. DZs are not always forth-coming on things like this because it reflects poorly on them. Photographers are reluctant to report it to because they might lose future work. No amount of whining about USPA can change the fact that they may not have known about this at the time of the incident. Not whining, just a legitimate question about how this organization functions. There is no enforcement mechanism that will compel the DZ to report it to the USPA. How many DZs have ever had a USPA membership revoked? If your argument is that there is little the USPA can do once they've kicked DZs out of the organization then I'd say you were right, and that's the problem. It is a regime in which we all smile and say we agree on a set of rules but then don't follow the rules when we don't want to. This is one thing when it involves something trivial like a regulation that the DZ must keep a copy of the current Parachutist on hand, however when it involves the lives of others it is completely unacceptable. You cannot just sweep that under the rug and a dead tandem passenger is manslaughter. So I suppose I completely agree with you but draw a different conclusion. Yes, the USPA can do nothing if it isn't told, BUT once the USPA finds a case in which it wasn't told and does nothing it confirms that there is no appetite for anything beyond spending money in this association. Like I said before, if this is a lobby fund just call it that and drop the sanctimonious attitude. We'll all just write a check each year and the fund can buy lobbyists and lawyers to keep federal regulations out. Personally, I'd very much like to see a USPA that works but it really seems quite pathetic at this point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #18 January 27, 2006 QuoteBoth do. USPA and/or the manufacturer. Currently, you may do either and it will apply in the US. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree. First, you need some kind of instructor rating (BIC, Coach 1, S/L jump-master, etc.) issued by an organization like USPA, CSPA, BPA, etc. This requirement originated with manufacturers. They wanted to share liability by saying "Some other organization said that he knows how to teach skydiving." Second: you attend a system-specific TI course given by one of the tandem manufacturers. For many years, this was the end of training. Third step: you attend a USPA Tandem Instructor Course. Step three is only required at USPA-affiliated DZs. Several other national aero clubs are contemplating a similar course covering generic TI training ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #19 January 27, 2006 You clearly do not understand how politics function at the national level. Hee! Hee! I am not even going to pretend to understand how USPA politics function at the disciplinary level. It is a slow process, at best. I just know that it happens - maybe once a year - with much behind-closed-doors negotiations. Grounding anyone is a tough decision and USPA's Board of Directors will not ground anyone, suspend instructional ratings, etc. until they have heard all the facts. Perhaps you should ask you USPA Conference Director for a detailed explanation of the suspension process. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trae 1 #20 January 28, 2006 in reply to"It is a slow process, at best. I just know that it happens - maybe once a year - with much behind-closed-doors negotiations." .................................. Perhaps it's these very processes that need changing. The secret behind closed doors stuff looks very much (as far as can easily be seen ) like keeping it all in a select group og semi-invisible politically minded control folk. Perhaps some form of much more public sharing of disciplinary action process is called for .eg some type of internet based fact seeking /judgement making & ....warnings. The powers that be may have many reasons not to include the general skydiving community in such public/open/transparent actions. Some of these reasons may be valid others just ensuring their own job security. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #21 January 29, 2006 QuoteThat TM must have been high. He forgot to put his gogles on too. What a jackass. Man you got that right. The main pin flap was open and flapping around in the aircraft before exit as well. In his defense, if he deserves one, at least he got the passenger hooked up, unbelievable!-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #22 February 6, 2006 Quote Second: you attend a system-specific TI course given by one of the tandem manufacturers. For many years, this was the end of training. Third step: you attend a USPA Tandem Instructor Course. Step three is only required at USPA-affiliated DZs. Several other national aero clubs are contemplating a similar course covering generic TI training ... Didn't it recently change so that if a tandem instructor only does his training through a USPA instructor rating course, he is valid with the manufacturer as well? Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #23 February 6, 2006 AFAIK the TI must complete manufacture specific training FIRST.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
