Why do some countries....

[Mike111 0]

... have a nationwide requirment saying people should wear AAd's?

Why not leave it to the dropzone owner to decide that (excluding students who need them of course) as it is their business that might suffer potentially if something went wrong?

i just can't understand the mentality of forcing qualified skydivers to do something they might not wanna do.

I know I am only a student.. and fully understand the benefits of an AAd,but if i didnt wanna use one then surely thats my perogative as it is for any jumper that wears oneand wants to.

,many thanks

Mike

[funks 1]

Why do states mandate the use of seatbelts?

[Mike111 0]

Agreed because it reduces deaths.

but skydiving is a voluntary thing... so surely the jumper... if the DZO is happy with it....should be allowed to make the choice in this "self regualted sport"?

[funks 1]

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but skydiving is a voluntary thing

And driving isnt?

[Mike111 0]

in some cases necessary to get to work or earn aliving from.

Im not saying AAd's are a bad thing at all...but in a voluntary thing then surely the choice should be upto the individual?

[wmw999 2,485]

I don't believe skydiving is entirely self-regulated in Great Britain (except by the BPA). In the US it's more self-regulated, but we still have the Federal Aviation Regulations. The BSRs of the United States Parachute Association are supposed to be treated as requirements by USPA member dropzones.

Could it be that only BPA dropzones exist in Great Britain?

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Mike111 0]

In Britain its not a requirement after youve got your b licence.

in france it is.

Funniyl enough in UK its not a requirement unless your a student or A licence

[NelKel 0]

Do the rules overseas state that the aad has to be turned on?

_________________________________________

Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan

[Remster 30]

Because their contries regulatory body that oversee skydiving decided it was a good idea.

Remster

[billvon 3,031]

Same reason we have nationwide requirements to use a reserve, to get the reserve repacked every 120 days whether it needs it or not, to use certified pilots, to have radios in aircraft, to open by 2000 feet, to avoid clouds etc. Because a lot of people thought those things were good ideas. In many cases, they decided that because the lack of those requirements led to a lot of deaths.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Same reason we have nationwide requirements to use a reserve, to get the reserve repacked every 120 days whether it needs it or not, to use certified pilots, to have radios in aircraft, to open by 2000 feet, to avoid clouds etc. Because a lot of people thought those things were good ideas. In many cases, they decided that because the lack of those requirements led to a lot of deaths.

Sometimes these sort of regulations are driven by careful thought and analysys. Sometimes as a gut reaction to an incident.

And sometimes they are put in by people who don't understand the matter at hand, or who are not in favor of the activity. Laguna Beach residents tolerate scuba divers because California law won't let them restrict access to the shoreline, but they did put up ridiculous requirements to carry and snorkel and to always dive with a buddy.

It's always fair to question the value of safety regulation.

[bob.dino 1]

Because those countries don't trust people with bugger-all jumps to be able to manage risk and keep themselves alive?

[jurgencamps 0]

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Because those countries don't trust people with bugger-all jumps to be able to manage risk and keep themselves alive?

Euh, I'm sorry? So only skydivers with low jump numbers have been saved by their AAD?

Jurgen

[piisfish 140]

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... have a nationwide requirment saying people should wear AAd's?

do you want to jump in Empuria and you don't want to buy a Cypres (or other AAD ?) ?

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Mike111 0]

I would jump with one if I was doing freefly or RW but if I was doing a solo practice i wouldnt switch it on.

That might heolp me because i wouldnt have device dependancy and would know how to manage myself without one ( i can so far but a bit of practice now and again would keep me alert which would me in an other scenario where an AAD wouldnt)

[Mike111 0]

i would presume so... pretty pointless buing one and nto switching it on. i guess.

[Mike111 0]

fair point... but what about those who are for more experienced???

Im nto trying to create an argument... just trying to understand the reasons.

[dragon2 2]

For the world top swoopers (and only those) an AAD actually creates a hazard. As demonstrated in the swoop competition in France, where all the swoopers were required to have an AAD and turn it on. Protesting didn't help, they had to. Voila, 2 out.

And after that, the fatal accident at Texel, of course.

Here in The Netherlands it's mandatory to have an AAD untill your C license (min 200 jumps and a bunch of other stuff). After that, most people still jump with an AAD anyway. I've jumped without for a couple jumps because having 2 rigs and 2 cypresses was getting to be too expensive, and eventually I sold the 2nd rig too.

Even experience jumpers can hit the tail on exit on solo jumps, I've seen it happen, so... It comes down to personal responsibility.

I don't mind jumping without AAD but I'd rather have one in my rig. I think I've got enough jumps and enough cutaways to make that decision. But if a dz or a country wants to impose an AAD I don't think it's that bad, provided they make allowances for say top swoopers, pond swoopers, planned water jumps and crw jumpers that plan to do low downplanes.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Why do states mandate the use of seatbelts?

To get federal tax money. New Hampshire is the only state in the union that has had the spine to keep the seatbelt a personal choice.

Live free or die.

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[Mike111 0]

fair point mate

[piisfish 140]

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I would jump with one if I was doing freefly or RW but if I was doing a solo practice i wouldnt switch it on.
That might heolp me because i wouldnt have device dependancy and would know how to manage myself without one

I can see your point, but there is NO dependancy to AAD's if you follow rule #2
#1 - turn AAD on
#2 - forget about it

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Dolph 0]

It's judged to save more lives than it takes at a relative modest investment in energy and money. The civil aviation authorities like it and are a little less likely to take over all aspects of the sport because of it. There are insurance issues (we're to some extent covered by our membership).

Because it's generally a good idea to have an AAD as a backup. Same with a reserve - that's also mandatory here. My gear has to go through a check every year for airworthyness and I have to hang in a harness and pass a yearly emergency procedures test as well. Any Instructor I can ground me if he thinks I'm unsafe. We have wingload restrictions in place as well as a certification needed to do relative work and demo jumps.

Probably sounds very restrictive to you, but it really doesn't bother me. This sport is inherently dangerous after all.

Not hearing too many complaints about it really and I don't object to. Some people are proud of their relatively (to us) unregulated skydiving world and quick to point of the freedoms but it's mostly some odd form of boasting I don't quite understand. People still die skydiving, here and elsewhere.

I can see your point from a philosophical point of view (self reliance and governance, personal responsibility) but I view these restrictions as relatively minor. Your mileage may vary.

[Dolph 0]

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Why do states mandate the use of seatbelts?

To get federal tax money. New Hampshire is the only state in the union that has had the spine to keep the seatbelt a personal choice.

Live free or die.

If you had socialized health care (fully covered by the government through tax payers money) I suspect the economic reality might persuade you to think of seat belt laws as a good idea. Bit of a tangent I know since you don't but to be fair, in reference to AAD being mandatory, there are some issues other than personal safety that has a minor impact.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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I can see your point, but there is NO dependancy to AAD's if you follow rule #2
#1 - turn AAD on
#2 - forget about it

Forgetting about it increases the risk of two out if you go low and dump your main at, say, 1500 feet.

My main deployment hard deck is much when I have an AAD.

There is no piece of equipment you can add to your gear that is 100% transparent. It would be nice, but there are possible scenarios when even the best safety equipment can be detrimental.

Safety equipment tends to help far more often than it hurts, but the potential for harm is always there if we think of that equipment as transparent.

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[tso-d_chris 0]

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If you had socialized health care (fully covered by the government through tax payers money) I suspect the economic reality might persuade you to think of seat belt laws as a good idea.

I really wasn't commenting on whether wearing a seatbelt is a good idea, or whether or not I agree with seatbelt laws. I just pointed out why seatbelt laws are so widespread.

I've had my life saved once by my seatbelt, and I survived another accident because I wasn't wearing it. I almost always wear it these days; odds are greater that it will help than hurt.

On the other hand, I'm not inclined to jump with an RSL, and I don't own an AAD, although I have in the past. I certainly don't want to see AADs mandatory.

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