Learning to Swoop...A YouTube Saga

[normiss 851]

Sanji's reply to DGIT.

He still doesn't get it.

Put me down for $20, 6-8 months.

ETA: Cleaned up my horrible effort at a linkie.
Read Sanji's comments under the video.

[hcsvader 1]

Hey normiss, you links aren't working correctly, just links to the OP video.

Have you seen my pants?
it"s a rough life, Livin' the dream
>:)

[EnricoPalazzo 1]

Yes, it's the OP video, with Sangi's comment and the OP's reply to it.

[MagmaticZebra 0]

This entire thing is just yet another person in the skydive community that probably wasn't talked to harshly enough, and wrote off anything else because people were trying to be nice about it.
I think I mentioned to Andrey a couple times that I thought the 129 was a bit of a leap in terms of canopy size, but like others, I didn't really go much further than saying it might not be the best idea and tried to be friendly about it. This was probably the same message and kindness he got from others, and mostly wrote it off as just a suggestion... He probably thought everything wasn't so bad until he posted the video and people could comment without any emotion. More peope need to bash people at the drop zones as they do online. I wish I could. Skydive community would probably be a safer place.

[-ftp- 0]

  Quote

  Quote

Its videos like this that make you hope that they they "just" break a leg when they learn their lesson. I hope they don't kill themselves or others.

If he flew like that while I was in the air, I'd break his fucking legs!

You have no right to be saying anything...what were you flying at sub 300's again??? Please remind us....

[billvon 3,070]

>You have no right to be saying anything...what were you flying at sub 300's again?

He was different.

[hookitt 1]

  Quote

>You have no right to be saying anything...what were you flying at sub 300's again?

He was different.

That caused an audible laughing sound to be emitted from one of the holes in my head region.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

  Quote

>You have no right to be saying anything...what were you flying at sub 300's again?

He was different.

In DocPop's defense, he was getting coaching and he was doing solo hop&pops.

While what he was doing was pretty foolish, the only one he was putting in danger was himself.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[DocPop 1]

  Quote

>You have no right to be saying anything...what were you flying at sub 300's again?

He was different.

I was different to this dude. While many on here disagreed with WHAT I was flying, NOBODY ever had to speak to me about HOW I was flying.

There is a world of difference.

And as to my right to say something.... pfft, never mind.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[cavscout73 0]

  Quote

  Quote

Safire2-129 might be a fast canopy for me, but not fast enough to be pricey. I sold Tri-160 and bought it used actually saving some money.

Worst reason for downsizing that I've ever seen.

  Quote

Be it the weather, timing, demand or some other factors, since I got interested, there wasn't a single course offered (also in Florida when we were there) that I could attend! And nothing scheduled either.

I highly doubt that there was nobody willing to sit down with you and help you out at any of those dropzones, especially if they saw how you were flying.

Not quite a canopy course but I would be willing to bet, there are a handful of damn good canopy pilots that could be picked up as coaches for some one on one.. especially in Deland or Sebastian.. for that matter bet ya could have walked into flight 1 and gotten that accomplished or at least pointed in the right direction..

[andymarch 0]

Ok, forty more jumps and two canopy classes since the video, read through the comments, got Brian's book have a lot to try and work on.

I still believe my canopy is safe and slow enough, even for my skill level, I would even like something with lighter front riser pressure. And as naïve as it sounds, I think that just a thousand landings on 190sq.ft. canopy brings you as closer to swooping as thousand commute miles – to being a car racer. So I want to set the right priorities and progression, pushing forward while staying safe to myself and others.

As subjective as opinions are, I appreciate all the [constructive :] feedback, and would like to thank everyone who responded, commented or otherwise criticized my video!

The courses: first one concentrated on controls (toggles, rears and fronts) and details of the flair. Second was about pattern, wind correction, ground track and being predictable. Both very helpful! In the future, plan to get all the coaching I have a chance to. Not too many landing videos, and no outside ones – somehow cameras used by coaches don't talk very well with modern laptops, - hopefully will fix that this summer.

Working primarily on pattern and consistency, reserving to either straight-ins or 90-degree turns. I've updated a video with a few most recent landings (skip to 6:40) and removed the double speed.

http://youtu.be/7wYvgALKnq4

[normiss 851]

'Snore has a right hand pattern?




Oh wait...you were the only right hand pattern jumper.

[-Joey- 0]

Haha, you were in Shelton the same day I was I think.

Btw check your PM :)

Skydiving is serious business

[davelepka 4]

Honest question, and I'll preface it by saying that I think you're making some better choices with regards to the canopy control courses you've taken, is 202 your accurate jump numbers as of today?

[Trafficdiver 8]

  andymarch

. And as naïve as it sounds, I think that just a thousand landings on 190sq.ft. canopy brings you as closer to swooping as thousand commute miles – to being racer

After seeing your "judgement" in the first video you posted I'd say you are the type of person who should do at least 1000 commuter miles before getting in a race car.

[3mpire 0]

  Quote

And as naïve as it sounds, I think that just a thousand landings on 190sq.ft. canopy brings you as closer to swooping as thousand commute miles – to being a car racer.

A more direct analogy, I think, would be to compare canopy progression with Naval aviators progressing from flight school to an F-18 landing on a ship at sea.

Check out the progression new navy pilots have to follow:

14 hours civilian flight training (plus a solo flight and cross country in GA aircraft)

Primary Flight Training in T34C or T6 Texan (both prop planes)

Intermediate to advanced training they finally get in a T45 and do an additional 65+ graded flights

Only after all of that time behind the stick of progressively staged classes of aircraft do they get to fly the real deal.

Notice they didn't go from a 182 in civilian GA to an F18?

I'm glad you're doing all the extra training and I'm not flaming you, but your logic doesn't make much sense to me.

[andymarch 0]

  davelepka

Honest question, and I'll preface it by saying that I think you're making some better choices with regards to the canopy control courses you've taken, is 202 your accurate jump numbers as of today?

About 210 now, yes. Jumps 201 and 202 were Wingsuit FJC (with Douglas Spotted Eagle) that I just could not not do!

  3mpire

A more direct analogy, I think, would be to compare canopy progression with Naval aviators progressing from flight school to an F-18 landing on a ship at sea.

Check out the progression new navy pilots have to follow<...>

Only after all of that time behind the stick of progressively staged classes of aircraft do they get to fly the real deal.

That's exactly what I have in mind! Military pilots are deliberately training towards deck landings on F18s, as opposed to just flying mail for thousands of hours, not that it won't at all help. Let's say I want to have a nice consistent 270 and fly 100ish Crossfire2 or Katana by 700-1000 jumps. I know this is realistic since I have quite a few examples. So what should be the next jump about for this goal? I don't think "just having 1000 jumps on 190" is quite the right approach. I need to make a progression, plan drills and details to work on, adjusting as I go. Something like:

Do at least 100 jumps to have a consistent 90-degree landing, with good accuracy with any wind, traffic and conditions.

Doing above, do regular high-pull jumps to spin 180s, 270s measuring altitude loss, do rears drills, stalls, whatever

Increase landing turn to 180/270/ do some next step (whoever went through this should watch my landings and suggest the right steps)

Downsize to X, going back to fronts, 90s and accuracy

etc
Not to mention for example, that without the right sequence, drills and video reviews I might learn bad habits that could be worse than not making those jumps at all.

[3mpire 0]

I am totally on board with the idea of a plan and executing to that plan. I think the only distinction I'd make is that while carrier landings are deliberate training, that is deliberate training with the thousands of hours of boring flight already under the belt. So while jumping a larger canopy won't give you the same practice, it still has value.

So to stick with the naval aviation analogy, the flight training is first in prop planes. That's your 190 sq. foot canopy.

Initial tailhook landing training is in a T45. That's your 150 sq. foot canopy. You have to do a minimum of 65+ flights in that T45 before the Navy decides if you're even allowed into something like an F18. The F18 is a sub 130sq. foot elliptical.

So yes, F18 pilots practice their carrier landings (actually you know you can watch them do that at OLF Coupeville on Whidbey island). But only after they have demonstrated proficiency on less performant platforms.

Lots of people learn to swoop on a 150 sabre2. I bet a really good canopy pilot on a sabre2 150 could out-swoop a bad canopy pilot on a smaller canopy.

T6 : F18 :: Triathlon 160 : Safire 129

It's skipping the middle bit that is tripping most people up, and is contributing to the backlash

[andymarch 0]

Well, I agree that I could have more graduate downsize, but since I already have 100 jumps on my Safire129 and feel pretty comfortable with it, this is what I start with, so to say.

And my point, continuing with Naval analogy, is that, imagine you have a GA pilot with 200 hours that you need to train on F18 deck landing, and you are paying for all the rentals, fuel etc. You want to be safe, since injuries or expensive equipment damage set you back and are very bad in general. But at the same time you don't want to say, here's 182, just fly for 1000 hours and come back :) So my question to others is: how would you approach this training?

[3mpire 0]

I'd do exactly what you are talking about -- set up a progression plan with measurable goals and hold myself accountable for meeting those goals before moving to the next step. On a 150 Sabre 2

With the naval analogy, you wouldn't take a 182 pilot and say fly for 1000 hours and then get into an F18. You'd say, "try this T6, then try this T45, and then try the F18".

edited to add: that is actually what I am doing -- I spend time under canopy working on stuff like flat turns, flare turns, front riser dives where I note altitude, execute maneuver, check altitude and see if I did it within my expected altitude range, etc.

I'm on my Sabre2 170, and I have no problem with it. I'll move to a 150 sometime but I don't feel that it is necessary to meet my immediate goals. Plus, I like having a 170 over my head when I get to jump my wingsuit (have you considered the ramifications of jumping your canopy as a beginning wingsuit pilot? how do you like line twists in a straight jacket? )

It's all about risk, and I have a lower threshold since I have a 1 year old son at home and a wife that depends on me.

Your body your risk, so if you are ok with your loading it's your business--unless you put others (me) at risk, in which case, that's where the friction with your fellow jumpers starts. A lot of people rag on your quick progression more out of their concern for how it could affect others.

[andymarch 0]

Ok, I think I hear what you are saying and vice versa.
Yup, I've got a good line twist in a wing suit, one reason why I used David's 150 for FJC.

Since I know you, we can discuss plans and progression further next time we meet :)

[78RATS 0]

You really should stop bellyflying if you want to be cool.

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[andymarch 0]

  78RATS

You really should stop bellyflying if you want to be cool.

Right! And dump skis for snowboard. Oh, and get an iPhone

[Krip 2]

Hi SERE

In response to the recent posts from Joey and his attitude.

It reminded me of this thread. Including the links you posted on u tube.

Enjoy

One Jump Wonder

[mike_brown 0]

  DocPop

  Quote

Its videos like this that make you hope that they they "just" break a leg when they learn their lesson. I hope they don't kill themselves or others.

If he flew like that while I was in the air, I'd break his fucking legs!

So this is why my instructors always preached for me to practice my flat turns.... Still do practice them. Gotta avoid stuff like this at the last few hundred feet apparently.