Mistreatment of skydivers by EMTs

[jdthomas 0]

Quote

I have never seen such passe action by the EMTs in my life - they had to make several trips back to the ambulance (which for some odd reason they had parked far away from the packing area) to get equipment - and they WALKED back - not running.

I've never been so aggrivated by EMTs in my life. Does this have to be a skydiver specific thing? I"m not sure, but it left a sour taste in my mouth regarding the EMTs in that town. I hope I never require their services...


Jen

I am sorry to read that many of you have had bad experiences with EMT's.
One thing to remeber is that we EMT's are just like you, we are people and we have off and on days.
Because the kid at McDonalds gave you a hard time and the wrong order do you hate McDonalds as a whole and think from now on you will have bad service based on this one event?

As far as parking an ambulance away from an area or on the runway.
We park for the convience of leaving the scene and not getting blocked in somewhere. as well as try to find a place that is close to the patient. Sometimes we roll to an address given and park by the front door only to find the patient out in the back yard way away from the place we thought was a good parking spot.
And patient care comes first, the plane can wait or divert of needed. the patient needs to be stable before moving them.. so you got a good show of an otter flying circles. to the medics it was patient first planes later!

If you want better relations with your local EMS then invite them to saftey day. help them understand skydiving and try to understand thier job.
both party's will be happy if you take honest intrest in each others callings of life.. kind of like dating, you have to show intrest in your date or you won't get naked later!

Personally, if I work another skydiver while I am trying to have a day off at the DZ I am going to shred the rig out of spite for making me work on my day off and so i can get more money when I repair the rig as that persons rigger!

Love your local EMT's.. they may just save your life!

Joe Thomas
EMT-I

www.greenboxphotography.com

[KillerKimmy 0]

Quote

people like this should look for a different job!

Thats what I thought. If you were a massage therapist that was always stressed and spoke angrily, what would that do for business? I know that since there is more bureaucracy involved in hospital care, and paramedic stuff, that it doesn't work that way.

Captain Kim

ps Did I mention that there was a medi vac helicopter 1,000 feet from the guy, and for some reason they got another one which took like 45 minutes to show up. Many people complained at that since he was totally stable and just hit his head. Why did he need the chopper? It would have sucked if an accident happened and a mother and child really needed the heli, and it was picking up a guy with a concussion.

[KillerKimmy 0]

Quote

Personally, if I work another skydiver while I am trying to have a day off at the DZ I am going to shred the rig out of spite for making me work on my day off

Wow what a crappy thing to do! I hope you aren't serious. If you have anger issues about your life, why take it out onn a person when it is your job to help them?

If I had a crappy day, you bet your butt if I'm helping a client, I'll either forget it until the session is over, or tell the client I can't see them.

Again if you're kidding, then brush my post off.

[popsjumper 2]

EMTs can be funny, too.

When one of our students broke an ankle, we brought her back in the back of a pickup. The EMT arrived and asked what happened? The girls says (with a perfectly straight face) "I fell down." The EMT, without missing a beat says, "Yeah, it's that first step that gets you every time."

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[tombuch 0]

Ughhh!

I’m one of the S&TA’s at this drop zone, and an EMT, but I don’t work for the local volunteer squad, and wasn’t at the DZ at the time of this incident.

We do have a horrible relationship with the local volunteer ambulance squad. We have tried everything we know of to mend the relationship, but nothing has worked. To defend the rescue squad for a second, there are some personalities at the DZ that are difficult to deal with, but obviously that doesn’t excuse unprofessional conduct. Frankly, I don’t think there can be a solution that will hold given the personalities both at the ambulance squad and drop zone.

When there are specific concerns about a specific call, the patient can file a complaint with the local EMS system (in this case, probably with the medical director at the hospital), and the call will be reviewed as part of the Quality Improvement program. That creates some added political conflict with the local squad, so it probably isn’t a good way to build relationships, but it does get ‘the system’ to look at the performance of the health care providers.

Are there broader solutions for this specific DZ? You bet, but they take money and effort. The DZ could establish their own responders to handle accidents on their private property, and they could establish a relationship with a paid professional ambulance service, rather than use the volunteer squad. That’s a tough task that requires a bunch of work and cooperation within the DZ community, and a commitment to work within the general EMS system. I don’t think the DZ has the people in place to make that happen, or the resources to sustain such a program over time.

I don’t want to hash this specific problem out any further in a public forum, but it should be understood that there are mechanisms to deal with these issues within each EMS system, and if a DZ wants to break away from the local volunteer service, there is a way to do that.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[valcore 0]

This really isn't the same but I re-injured my back on a hard opening and thats what the military doctors told me. "Well thats what happens when you skydive" Next time I hurt myself I won't tell them that I am a skydiver because I have gotten horrible bedside manner. But I do have to that they did give me a hell of a lot of narcotics.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I'm from the government and I'm here to help’. ~Ronald Reagan

30,000,000 legal firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

[WeakMindedFool 0]

Maybe they were unprofessional, I wasn't there and you were. Medically necessary things hurt sometimes...and I only run when I'm being shot at. The only way you can be sure of what your saying is to completely educate yourself on the subject, go get your EMT, hell it's a 5 unit cores at your local JC. As for the bird, I don't know what kind of trauma system you run there and not all EMS birds are equal, there could be a really good reason to use one, and the one on the ground might not be adequate for the needs of the patient or there might be some secondary reason not to use it. How do you know he was stable? Allot of people die after they, "just hit their head". How far was the nearest Trauma center that takes Neuro? Did he loose consciousness? Was he repetitive? I can guarantee you the one thing we don't do is sit around and explain things to people, it's not what I get paid for.... unless you want me to come on out and explain things to you for money?!? I'm in Nor Cal and we just had this jackass hang himself up on an antenna. It took 5 hours to get him down. My agency refused to do the rescue by helicopter (to dangerous) as did the CHP bird, The USCG, and the National guard. Someone ended up climbing the guide wire, setting a pick point and lowering this fool down, who proceeded to complain about how long it took them to save his punk ass (when he wasn't sniveling to the 911 operator about how he wasn't going to BASE jump anymore). So at the end of the day I got to ask...what do you expect when you jump off shit?

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[ihavearrived 0]

20% ? Thats a little steep, If I have to ask to have my IV bag refilled, maybe 10%?!

[Skykat108 0]

We have an EMT who actually jumps, it's great having him there, and in turn we have a good relationship with the EMTs They even helped out on our year end video ^_^

Sucks that political stuff gets in the way of good care. I hope that you guys can get that straighten out, that is extremely unprofessional on the part of the EMTs

[artistcalledian 0]

Quote

Quote

Personally, if I work another skydiver while I am trying to have a day off at the DZ I am going to shred the rig out of spite for making me work on my day off

Wow what a crappy thing to do! I hope you aren't serious. If you have anger issues about your life, why take it out onn a person when it is your job to help them?

If I had a crappy day, you bet your butt if I'm helping a client, I'll either forget it until the session is over, or tell the client I can't see them.

Again if you're kidding, then brush my post off.

did you not read his words right after the bit you've quoted? not too hard to see he's joking, it's not rocket salad you know

________________________________________
drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police

[WeakMindedFool 0]

I take it you meant that for killer not me, and I strongly doubt it's political. It could be that those EMT's were just assholes!

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[sstovall 0]

Kimmy,

I think you need to look at it from the other side. I seriously doubt you know the whole story. Work in the ER/Trauma ICUs for a while and then judge. In regard to the broken back incident, if that is the whole story then that nurse should immediately be terminated and reported to the Board of Nursing for unsafe practice. As part of a Health care professionals training we are taught to alleviate the cause of a person's medical issue. We teach the elderly how to avoid falling at home to avoid broken hips, we teach parents to not leave their children unattended in the tub, and we teach people that hucking themselves out of an airplane two miles above the ground involves a higher than average risk. If you can't see that this is hazardous then you need a shot of objectivity.

I see you are a diver. What happens when you do a deep dive and get the bends even though you followed the rules. Someone is going to say "why didn't you mix yours gases properly or do your decompression stops appropriately?" It's part of the game.

If the hospital is doing anything below the standard of care the by all means report them to their administration and JCAHO www.jcaho.org

As far as the transport team, if you have a question then ask. Very rarely is getting in a hurry and acting rash going to improve a situation. Picture this, your friend pounds in and is having trouble breathing but is alert and maintaining his vitals. Things go south. Do you want the guy who has been running all over the place, heart pounding, out of breath, not thinking 100% clearly intubating, starting a line, etc.. on your friend? Or the one who is cool, calm, and in control and likely to do everything right the first time? You never know, maybe that helicopter wasn't equipped to handle that given situation. It would suck to be 5000ft above the ground and miles from the equipment you need. Just get some perspective and ask questions before you go blaming people who work their ass off to save your life.

Shane

=
=
-some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain,
that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

[dropdeded 0]

I will say, from experience, that some people definately should not be in EMS. It does take quite an effort sometimes to maintain professionalism, but I have seen EMT's AND Paramedics that really dont belong in the field at all. Its a shame, but its true.

dropdeded

------------------------------------------
The Dude Abides.
-

[jdthomas 0]

Wow what a crappy thing to do! I hope you aren't serious. If you have anger issues about your life, why take it out onn a person when it is your job to help them?



Again if you're kidding, then brush my post off.

[Silverchic 0]

Ear infections are bad - I had a bad one a while ago and I could hardly even keep my balance while walking! Let alone trying to stay stable in free fall!!!

How is it that we put man on the moon before we figured out it would be a good idea to put wheels on luggage?

[johnny1488 1]

No one knows the whole story but what we do know is that other active sports in the area dealing with the same people don't receive the same treatment we do.

And it is not a one time deal.

We have several EMT's and a paramedic who jump at our DZ.

But to have someone who is supposed to be working in the patients best intrest basically calling them "stupid" while working on them is pretty shitty.

And why would working in a trauma/er change her judgment? Again no one seems to tell the rock climber " what the hell were you doing that for?"

As far as the helicopter, if it wasn't equipped to handle the situation, I dont think it would have idled on the runway for over an hour and then left with the jumper if it wasn't equipped. People who have been hurt far worse were denied a helicopter.

I am not saying this happens all over or even anywhere else. But I think she was asking what people would do if it happened to them.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[JUDYJ 0]

I am a level one trauma nurse... I also broke my tailbone and pelvis on jump#10.. I have lived on both levels.

YOU can't possible make things right by spewing all this here. There are actions and recourses whenever someone or some agency is less than professional. There is a level of accountablility all health care professionals must answer to.

IF one door closes...keep knocking till the right one opens.

IF you are going to be Stupid - you better be tough!

[dropdeded 0]

Im gonna retract my previous statement because it was more stated because of a recent incident at work, not what went on with this particular call. I wasnt there, I dont know what happened.

Carry on.

dropdeded

------------------------------------------
The Dude Abides.
-

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

I am not saying this happens all over or even anywhere else. But I think she was asking what people would do if it happened to them.

She was advised early in the thread what to do if this did in fact happen. Continuing to complain on the net is not going to change things.

Quote

The reference to the girl who was forced to sit up while having a back injury did happen like 3-4 years ago (little after I started jumping), and to tell you the truth I would have tried to contact authorities if I understood what was happening. As far as I know, and I don't know much because it didn't happen to me, but nothing was done perhaps because nothing was said.

First you have to deal in facts, not hearsay and second hand information. If it can be documented take action through the proper channels. A knee jerk rant on DZ.com will not change things.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Airman1270 0]

...And patient care comes first, the plane can wait or divert of needed. the patient needs to be stable before moving them.. so you got a good show of an otter flying circles. to the medics it was patient first planes later!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I'm sorry Joe, I thought I addressed that point: The injured guy was receiving treatment. There were enought EMT's on the scene that a few were just standing there watching. Available and ready to help, of course, but just watching. (Not a bad thing - better too many than too few.)

It would not have interfered with the quality of medical care if one of these guys had stepped away from the group for a minute and moved the truck a short distance to the side. The harsh response to the request seemed out of line.

I did not identify the DZ (because it really doesn't matter) but Tom B. jumps there. His post about having a poor relationship with the local rescue squad sheds some light on this. By the way, the incident occurred in the early '90's. None of this is intended as a personal smear, and I hope we're not trashing the people who are currently serving.

Cheers,
Jon S.

[Feeblemind 1]

Quote

I broke an ankle while playing softball in high school (outfield collision.) Several years later I broke my other ankle on my first jump (brain fart on the PLF.) The same doctor treated me both times. After the jumping injury, he strayed from his field of expertise by commenting that I shouldn't be jumping out of airplanes. I asked him why he didn't tell me to give up baseball. He didn't have an answer.

On another occasion I witnessed an injury. The jumper had a bad landing on the grass near the runway. The EMT staff was doing their thing while the Otter slowly circled the DZ. When someone asked one of them to move their vehicle so the plane could land, he received a boatload of attitude, something along the lines of "we're helping your friend, etc. etc." However, I did not think the question was unreasonable. They had plenty of people there, and the injured guy was being treated. Several EMT's were standing around watching. It would not have compromised their professional efforts if one of them broke away from the group briefly and moved the truck.

It was neat watching that Otter, though. That thing can fly almost as slowly as a hot air balloon.

Cheers,
Jon S.

After you caught the intial attitude I would have asked for his/her name. The normal response from them would be "Why?" look them straight in the eye and say" We just wanted to know who to hold responsible after the plane crashes when it runs out of fuel" [Evil]

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[rigging65 0]

Quote

and they WALKED back - not running

We don't run...it never saved anyones life, and it's hurt more than one person. Moving with a purpose is a much safer way to get the job done.

Think about this: If the guy carrying the backboard came running back, tripped and twisted his ankle, who is going to go back and get the board from him? And who is going to take care of him? And who is going to either a) drive the ambulance now or b) treat the patient now??

I don't know why they didn't park closer. Lots of times we prefer to carry a patient out over rough ground, as opposed to driving them out. It's much less bumpy (read: less painful), and usually just as fast.

Being an Paramedic that was/is intimately involved with a local DZ, I can tell you this: there is not time to explain your actions on scene...not to mention it's not our job. If you have a problem, call someone in charge and talk with them.

"...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

[skymedic 0]

Yea...the other night I had a gun pulled on me cause i didn't "Run" to someone's aid. I'm not going to risk my life running into any situtation. even if that's at an airfield. moving with a purpose to a person also gives me time to take the pulse of the scene. More than once have I been fooled into rushing in and been burned by making poor decisions.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Yea...the other night I had a gun pulled on me cause i didn't "Run" to someone's aid. I'm not going to risk my life running into any situtation. even if that's at an airfield. moving with a purpose to a person also gives me time to take the pulse of the scene. More than once have I been fooled into rushing in and been burned by making poor decisions.

If someone is bleeding, choking or suffocating to death, don't seconds count?

I was the only person on the scene of a stroke or heart attack once, and even though I was doing CPR, the guy was turning blue. (There were others standing around watching, but none willing to help, even though I asked.) I wanted the ambulance and medics to get there as fast as possible - he was dying, and needed those seconds to save his life.

[ladyskydiver 0]

I'm sure those who do this for a living can explain it better, but from my CPR and First Aid training, one of the first things they teach you is to assess the situation. Yes, seconds do count. Running into a situation isn't going to help anyone.

The rescuer needs to be aware of their surroundings and ensure that they are going to be able to enter the area safely and then proceed to take care of the injured individual.

If the rescuer gets injured rushing (aka running) into a situation, you now need 2 people to be taken care of and helped.

In the same situation, I'd be hoping and praying that they get there quickly as well. However, their safety as well as any other individuals between them and the injured party are a priority as well.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.