artistcalledian 0 #51 December 16, 2005 QuoteI'm sure those who do this for a living can explain it better, but from my CPR and First Aid training, one of the first things they teach you is to assess the situation. Yes, seconds do count. Running into a situation isn't going to help anyone. The rescuer needs to be aware of their surroundings and ensure that they are going to be able to enter the area safely and then proceed to take care of the injured individual. If the rescuer gets injured rushing (aka running) into a situation, you now need 2 people to be taken care of and helped. In the same situation, I'd be hoping and praying that they get there quickly as well. However, their safety as well as any other individuals between them and the injured party are a priority as well. i don't know about you, but i can look where i'm going when i run i think it can manage to run somewhere without tripping over like a spaz... at least i've managed 39 years of running places and staying on my feet... guess i must be lucky ________________________________________ drive it like you stole it and f*ck the police Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #52 December 16, 2005 >If someone is bleeding, choking or suffocating to death, don't seconds count? In some cases, yes. Which makes it all the more important to take the time to do the right thing the first time. It might take ten seconds to figure out what's really going on, but take a minute to realize that you missed something if you just dive in. >and even though I was doing CPR, the guy was turning blue. Right. I don't know what his situation was, but if it was anything like situations I have found myself in, it may have been beneficial to take a second, clear the airway and ensure it was intact before starting CPR. That may have gotten some oxygen to his brain a little sooner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegreekone 0 #53 December 16, 2005 i don't know about you, but i can look where i'm going when i run Quote If you could only do it when you post. Quotei think it can manage to run somewhere without tripping over like a spaz... at least i've managed 39 years of running places and staying on my feet... guess i must be lucky I am sure I'm not alone in requesting video of this "phenomenon". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #54 December 16, 2005 QuoteYes, seconds do count. Running into a situation isn't going to help anyone.. That sounds contradictory to me. 1) Seconds count. 2) Running saves seconds. 3) Therefore, running can save a life. You can assess a situation while running towards it. But hey, if I'm pumping out my last quart of blood, or gasping my last breathes of air - please, don't break out into a sweat over me. Should this "no running" rule also apply to police and firemen, who also have people depending upon them to save their lives? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #55 December 16, 2005 Quote>If someone is bleeding, choking or suffocating to death, don't seconds count? In some cases, yes. Which makes it all the more important to take the time to do the right thing the first time. It might take ten seconds to figure out what's really going on, but take a minute to realize that you missed something if you just dive in. I wouldn't suggest that just any ol' thing be done at random as soon as the medic gets there, without bothering to assess the problem. However, the sooner he gets there, the sooner he can start that assessment period. Let's say it takes 30 seconds to walk to the injured person, and then 10 seconds to assess the problem. Wouldn't it be better if the medic got there in 15 seconds by hurrying up? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zoter 0 #56 December 16, 2005 If you receive ANY less care as a skydiver who broke his leg after a hard landing in the Emergency room (or beyond) as compared to an old dear who tripped over her cat and received a similar injury....you MUST complain through your countries/governments medical governance structure. ALL Medical professionals are taught both professionally and ethically to triage and treat THE injury BEFORE they have ANYTHING to do with the moral reasons as to the cause of the injury. Anybody who deviates from this very simple practice in any medical community I am aware of in the civilised world risks disciplinary action. The EMT's have a responsibility to themselves to assess the environment and ensure it poses no risk to themselves prior to assessment/treatment of the patient..........if this is in anyway abused , again.....it should NOT be accepted That said on two field emergencies I have seen on both occasions the surrounding community (or injured party) have 'questioned'or debated the EMT /Paramedics decison to cut off the harness or associated equipment.............this should never , ever happen........respect their professionalism and let them do what THEY think needs to be done , unless you happen to be an awful lot more qualified and responsible for the person in question than they are. They may know squat about skydiving or its equipment but they DO know what they need to get done to assess, stabilise and treat that patient That will save a few more of those precious 'seconds'......when seconds count.... Just my humble opinion.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdthomas 0 #57 December 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteYes, seconds do count. Running into a situation isn't going to help anyone.. That sounds contradictory to me. 1) Seconds count. 2) Running saves seconds. 3) Therefore, running can save a life. You can assess a situation while running towards it. But hey, if I'm pumping out my last quart of blood, or gasping my last breathes of air - please, don't break out into a sweat over me. Should this "no running" rule also apply to police and firemen, who also have people depending upon them to save their lives? Well a year or so back a call went out here in KC and two EMS persons showed up on scene.. no police or fire crews where on scene yet and these medics broke a golden rule. they went rushing in! Rule one in ems.. BSI (body substance isolation) sub part of rule one. Scene safe! That was the last time those two rushed anywhere.. the scene was not safe and they are dead as some looney shot both of them! What does this have to do with your skydiving injuries.. nothing, but we don't rush. The state of kansas allows us to drive 10 over the posted speed limit with very few exceptions and more restrictions then exceptions. When we drive with the lights and sirens we are really only asking for the right of way, we have no legal right of way and we are forced to stop at red lights just the same as everyone else. On occassion I find that I speed up my walk, but I don't run. I have ran in the past, saw a lady drive off the highway into a corn field.. she was out cold when I ran all the way to her.. took me about 5 solid min's to catch my breat before I could do anything at all... could ahve walked in the same amout of time. Take am EMS class, it could save your buddy or a family member.. hell even that guy who turns blue on you. the you will understand why we don't run. Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #58 December 17, 2005 QuoteThe state of kansas allows us to drive 10 over the posted speed limit... lights and sirens... Ambulances have sirens and lights so that they can get to an accident scene quicker, so obviously that means that time is important. So I just don't quite understand why, once you've finished arriving at the scene in a great hurry, all of a sudden things switch to go-slow mode for the last few hundred feet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jdthomas 0 #59 December 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe state of kansas allows us to drive 10 over the posted speed limit... lights and sirens... Ambulances have sirens and lights so that they can get to an accident scene quicker, so obviously that means that time is important. So I just don't quite understand why, once you've finished arriving at the scene in a great hurry, all of a sudden things switch to go-slow mode for the last few hundred feet. Well it seems that none of us have a way to explain our efforts or answer your questions with the answer you want. So I could offer this suggestion and say go on some ride time with your local EMS, get to know what they are doing and why they do it. take the class and really understand whats going on. As I have said before you could possibly save some person someday. But maybe you just want to argue and think we ems persons really don't care and that we are a bunch of lazy ass fucks who don't like to run. heaven forbid that all the ems persons on this site that state we don't run for a reason would be correct.. but then again that could have been one of our secret oaths we took when we got out of school. Either way there seems to be no way for your to understand that we have rules we follow, they are flexable and on occassion you can run if you want and sometimes it is just flat out the wrong thing to do.. but none the less you seem convicend to know our job and what we should be doing. Perhaps taking up as a director of an ems service would fit you and your crews could run at full speed at every scene and you would rest easy in life knowing that you may have saved one or two seconds off a scene time. Either way I am done trying to help you understand. Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kelly 0 #60 December 17, 2005 JOhn, The reason that EMS persons dont rush around scenes is simple. Ever do breathing exersizes to calm yourself down? ever be in a rush? note the difference in feelings, emotions, actions, and reactions. The calmer the EMT/ police/ firefigher the more they will "have their head on their shoulders" and be able to think. As a side note, I ran one time as an EMT. The call was for a 40 year old woman in cardiac arrest. I tripped, flew about 10 feet in front of me and almost took out 2 other rescuers, a car and I could have seriously injured myself. Now, where would we have been with an additional patient (who the rescuers know quite well as opposed to the stranger) or even multiple more patients? Its all a matter of staying calm and doing the best job possible, which only results from calm, orderly thought processess. PS: I've been an EMT for 6 years and have been on DZ's since 2001. I don't run around scenes with strangers, I don't run around accident scenes with friends. I get there quickly, then calm down and assess and provide care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #61 December 18, 2005 QuoteAmbulances have sirens and lights so that they can get to an accident scene quicker, so obviously that means that time is important. So I just don't quite understand why, once you've finished arriving at the scene in a great hurry, all of a sudden things switch to go-slow mode for the last few hundred feet. John, Getting there is more important then getting their fast. If you get in a wreck driving there or fall on your ass running around once there, you have just become part of the problem and given up being part of the solution. By running to and fro all you do is raze the anxiety level of everyone else on the scene. Moving “with purpose” and with efficiency will serve the patient better and allow the EMS personnel to make it through the shift. The State of CA did a study in the early 80's on Fire Dept. units driving Code 3 to an incident. The units that drove balls to the wall did not get there any quicker than the units that observed a 35 mph speed limit on surface streets. But they did wear out the brakes on the units at twice the rate. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dropdeded 0 #62 December 18, 2005 This really is an interesting thread. I do "hurry" on scene at times, I dont doubt that I will "run" sooner or later if it is how something goes down but I dont really see it. Reading both sides of the replies here I dont know if it CAN be explained (and understood)why we dont run. Seen some good attempts to explain it, but I dont think I can so I wont try. No, I dont run on scene, and I'd prefer not working with people that do. Make sense, didnt think so dropdeded------------------------------------------ The Dude Abides. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #63 December 18, 2005 Hell, when dealing with any medical emergency, the first step is to check your own pulse. Do it before you start checking on others because if you don't have control of yourself, things tend to go from bad to worse right quick. Considering my career, I've seen numerous levels of negligence and avarice. Still, the stories about a nurse having someone with a broken back sit up sound as bullshit and concocted as anything I've ever heard. Everybody knows that in an emergency, don't move a person more than is absolutely necessary to either let the person live (if the car is in flames and the person is inside, paralysis is an acceptable risk) or to get the person to tretment. Maybe the original poster's story would ring true outside of the US, where lawsuits are more difficult. But, here in the US, most medical professionals generally stay out of medical situations unless their immediate intervention is absolutely necessary. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #64 December 19, 2005 Quote That sounds contradictory to me. 1) Seconds count. 2) Running saves seconds. 3) Therefore, running can save a life. You can assess a situation while running towards it. But hey, if I'm pumping out my last quart of blood, or gasping my last breathes of air - please, don't break out into a sweat over me. Should this "no running" rule also apply to police and firemen, who also have people depending upon them to save their lives? God I love whuffo's....and your definately one of them. You need to quit watching johnny and roy. By the way...I've been a Firefighter since 1994...Don't run if I am on a fire scene. (hoses break ankles), and when I was a cop for 3 years I didn't run then either(bullets kill cops dead). Once again...only time I have ever ran to a scene was for a kid that was laying in the middle of a roadway. THAT was because he was in the way of vehicles after being chucked out of his daddies car. Running to a person's aid does nothing. Also one other thing. on an average EMS call I bring in a 75pound airway bag, a 35pound monitor/defibrilator, an O2 cylinder that weighs about 10 pounds, a drug box that weighs another 20pounds or so, a portable suction unit taht weights 15 pounds. YOU tell me how i'm going to run with all this stuff even when I have a partner right there. YOU obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Like I said go back to watching your johnny and roy reruns and stay in your little fantasy land of yours. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #65 December 19, 2005 QuoteStill, the stories about a nurse having someone with a broken back sit up sound as bullshit and concocted as anything I've ever heard. I've seen this!!! Working in the ER one night and in walks a post MVA patient who's buddy drove him from the accident scene. I tell the RN that he needs to be boarded and she says no. I palpate his spine and he has pain to C4, C5, C6, C7. Patient kept saying he feels like his head is going to fall off. nurse once again ignores me...I get the Doc at this point. Turns out patient had Fx's of everything from C3 to T2. But the nurse fought me and fought me. Then she got reprimanded. Nurses and medics and EMT's and Doc's do not know all. and there really are some idiots out there for sure. Just hope they don't care for you...and if they do, you need to complain. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,070 #66 December 19, 2005 >So I just don't quite understand why, once you've finished arriving at > the scene in a great hurry, all of a sudden things switch to go-slow > mode for the last few hundred feet. Based on that statement I suspect you haven't been to many of these scenes. At one such incident, that resulted in the death of a friend of mine, the only person NOT running around was Matt, who was a paramedic. He was methodically getting oxygen set up, starting IV's, and giving us advice with CPR. He was also the one who remembered things like gloves - and got a lot more done than any of us, who were full of adrenalin. Amy has had to fight this tendency to hurry. One thing that EMT's and paramedics get trained for that Amy never learned is how to protect _themselves._ (After all, there aren't too many airbags about to fire in a hospital room.) At a recent accident she found herself with her arms in a shattered window, stabilizing someone's neck, trying to run next to a car that had started to roll downhill. Had she slowed down and thought about it, she may not have ended up in that position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #67 December 20, 2005 QuoteAt a recent accident she found herself with her arms in a shattered window, stabilizing someone's neck, trying to run next to a car that had started to roll downhill. Had she slowed down and thought about it, she may not have ended up in that position. Now that could have had a VERY tragic outcome for your bride. Very scary. But, a good example of why we assess the scene before we go rushing into it at a full clip. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #68 December 20, 2005 I had one ambulance ride, unconscious and broken up some, from a bronc at a rodeo. Made a few more trips to the hospital for other rodeo injuries to myself and friends. A few more trips for logging injuries to myself and others. Made a couple more trips for skydiving injuries. The EMT's are usually great. They're just there doing there job. I recall arguing with one once because he wanted me to go to the hospital after being hurt at a rodeo, and I kept explaining I didn't have any insurance and wasn't going. At another rodeo a friend broke his neck and he had to argue with everyone how he wasn't getting in the "damn" back of the ambulance, and rode up front like he was in a cab to the hospital. (Probably not too smart.) I suspect EMT's get tired of this after a while. Once you're in the hospital I've heard more than a few comments about how you must be "nuts". Or, "Why would you do that?". Usually this is by nurses and a few doctors working on you. I've never let it bother me much. Too bad for them if they don't understand what's really fun in life.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverjerry 0 #69 December 20, 2005 i have been around for a while on dzs and seen the aftermath of the things we do wrong and only once have i had anything to say bad about medics doctors or police who are there to help clear the landing area so we can resume dancing. once i had to fisicaly restrain an over eger fire man who wanted to help move a student, and a few times the same for over eager skydivers but for the rest they have always been proffesional. respect to all of them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #70 December 20, 2005 Quote...Or, "Why would you do that?". Usually this is by nurses and a few doctors working on you. Heh heh - that would be a good thing to ask one of those same docs when they're giving a prostate exam up someone's wazoo: "Why would you want to go and do that for a living?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #71 December 21, 2005 QuoteQuote...Or, "Why would you do that?". Usually this is by nurses and a few doctors working on you. Heh heh - that would be a good thing to ask one of those same docs when they're giving a prostate exam up someone's wazoo: "Why would you want to go and do that for a living?" Oh, I agree! My ex-doctor seemed to be enjoying that part of his job way to much..... That's one of the worst parts about getting old is having to get your damn prostate checked on a regular basis....Yuck! Who'd take a job like that?....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rigging65 0 #72 December 31, 2005 QuoteThat sounds contradictory to me. 1) Seconds count. 2) Running saves seconds. 3) Therefore, running can save a life. You can assess a situation while running towards it. But hey, if I'm pumping out my last quart of blood, or gasping my last breathes of air - please, don't break out into a sweat over me. Should this "no running" rule also apply to police and firemen, who also have people depending upon them to save their lives? The "no running" rule does apply to police and fire. Again, we don't run. Dress in your snow/ski clothes, put a 35 weight on your back and wrap a shirt around your mouth, then try to run 100 yards, then try to button up the buttons on your shirt. Your hands shake, your head bobs up and down as you try to catch your breath, your head swims and your vision blurs. That's what it's like for a fire guy. EMS guys have it just as bad, just due to the amount of gear that has to be moved to a scene...that stuff is heavy and awkward! Now imagine if you had to a) maneuver through a smoke filled house dragging 50 or 60 lbs behind you (a charged hose line), b) start an IV (like threading a medium sized needle with thread), or c) figure out medicine calculation based off a guestimated weight after making that little run. That's a pretty average day for us. And, with due respect, until you've done it you have no idea why it's difficult to do. Take a class, do a ride along, get some education on why things are the way they are. It should be clear by now that pretty much everyone on this board who's involved with fire/EMS feels the same way...think there might be a reason why? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Calvin19 0 #73 December 31, 2005 Ha! skydivers got it made! imagine the Attitude they have with us BASE jumpers. or, the attitude that conservative skydivers have when a BASE jumper gets hurt. ... -SPACE- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MissyOutTheBox 0 #74 January 13, 2006 Being an EMT myself I personally would never treat anyone with disrespect while treating them. Whether it s from jumping out of an airplane (Which mind you has less injuries than the driving of an automobile) or other activities.. It was probably due to inexperience. Please don't hold it against all of us EMT's. We are all of a different species...lol ------------------------------------------------------------ Have always wanted to be a social butterfly but now I have the wind beneath my feet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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JohnRich 4 #54 December 16, 2005 QuoteYes, seconds do count. Running into a situation isn't going to help anyone.. That sounds contradictory to me. 1) Seconds count. 2) Running saves seconds. 3) Therefore, running can save a life. You can assess a situation while running towards it. But hey, if I'm pumping out my last quart of blood, or gasping my last breathes of air - please, don't break out into a sweat over me. Should this "no running" rule also apply to police and firemen, who also have people depending upon them to save their lives? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #55 December 16, 2005 Quote>If someone is bleeding, choking or suffocating to death, don't seconds count? In some cases, yes. Which makes it all the more important to take the time to do the right thing the first time. It might take ten seconds to figure out what's really going on, but take a minute to realize that you missed something if you just dive in. I wouldn't suggest that just any ol' thing be done at random as soon as the medic gets there, without bothering to assess the problem. However, the sooner he gets there, the sooner he can start that assessment period. Let's say it takes 30 seconds to walk to the injured person, and then 10 seconds to assess the problem. Wouldn't it be better if the medic got there in 15 seconds by hurrying up? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #56 December 16, 2005 If you receive ANY less care as a skydiver who broke his leg after a hard landing in the Emergency room (or beyond) as compared to an old dear who tripped over her cat and received a similar injury....you MUST complain through your countries/governments medical governance structure. ALL Medical professionals are taught both professionally and ethically to triage and treat THE injury BEFORE they have ANYTHING to do with the moral reasons as to the cause of the injury. Anybody who deviates from this very simple practice in any medical community I am aware of in the civilised world risks disciplinary action. The EMT's have a responsibility to themselves to assess the environment and ensure it poses no risk to themselves prior to assessment/treatment of the patient..........if this is in anyway abused , again.....it should NOT be accepted That said on two field emergencies I have seen on both occasions the surrounding community (or injured party) have 'questioned'or debated the EMT /Paramedics decison to cut off the harness or associated equipment.............this should never , ever happen........respect their professionalism and let them do what THEY think needs to be done , unless you happen to be an awful lot more qualified and responsible for the person in question than they are. They may know squat about skydiving or its equipment but they DO know what they need to get done to assess, stabilise and treat that patient That will save a few more of those precious 'seconds'......when seconds count.... Just my humble opinion.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #57 December 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteYes, seconds do count. Running into a situation isn't going to help anyone.. That sounds contradictory to me. 1) Seconds count. 2) Running saves seconds. 3) Therefore, running can save a life. You can assess a situation while running towards it. But hey, if I'm pumping out my last quart of blood, or gasping my last breathes of air - please, don't break out into a sweat over me. Should this "no running" rule also apply to police and firemen, who also have people depending upon them to save their lives? Well a year or so back a call went out here in KC and two EMS persons showed up on scene.. no police or fire crews where on scene yet and these medics broke a golden rule. they went rushing in! Rule one in ems.. BSI (body substance isolation) sub part of rule one. Scene safe! That was the last time those two rushed anywhere.. the scene was not safe and they are dead as some looney shot both of them! What does this have to do with your skydiving injuries.. nothing, but we don't rush. The state of kansas allows us to drive 10 over the posted speed limit with very few exceptions and more restrictions then exceptions. When we drive with the lights and sirens we are really only asking for the right of way, we have no legal right of way and we are forced to stop at red lights just the same as everyone else. On occassion I find that I speed up my walk, but I don't run. I have ran in the past, saw a lady drive off the highway into a corn field.. she was out cold when I ran all the way to her.. took me about 5 solid min's to catch my breat before I could do anything at all... could ahve walked in the same amout of time. Take am EMS class, it could save your buddy or a family member.. hell even that guy who turns blue on you. the you will understand why we don't run. Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #58 December 17, 2005 QuoteThe state of kansas allows us to drive 10 over the posted speed limit... lights and sirens... Ambulances have sirens and lights so that they can get to an accident scene quicker, so obviously that means that time is important. So I just don't quite understand why, once you've finished arriving at the scene in a great hurry, all of a sudden things switch to go-slow mode for the last few hundred feet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #59 December 17, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe state of kansas allows us to drive 10 over the posted speed limit... lights and sirens... Ambulances have sirens and lights so that they can get to an accident scene quicker, so obviously that means that time is important. So I just don't quite understand why, once you've finished arriving at the scene in a great hurry, all of a sudden things switch to go-slow mode for the last few hundred feet. Well it seems that none of us have a way to explain our efforts or answer your questions with the answer you want. So I could offer this suggestion and say go on some ride time with your local EMS, get to know what they are doing and why they do it. take the class and really understand whats going on. As I have said before you could possibly save some person someday. But maybe you just want to argue and think we ems persons really don't care and that we are a bunch of lazy ass fucks who don't like to run. heaven forbid that all the ems persons on this site that state we don't run for a reason would be correct.. but then again that could have been one of our secret oaths we took when we got out of school. Either way there seems to be no way for your to understand that we have rules we follow, they are flexable and on occassion you can run if you want and sometimes it is just flat out the wrong thing to do.. but none the less you seem convicend to know our job and what we should be doing. Perhaps taking up as a director of an ems service would fit you and your crews could run at full speed at every scene and you would rest easy in life knowing that you may have saved one or two seconds off a scene time. Either way I am done trying to help you understand. Joewww.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kelly 0 #60 December 17, 2005 JOhn, The reason that EMS persons dont rush around scenes is simple. Ever do breathing exersizes to calm yourself down? ever be in a rush? note the difference in feelings, emotions, actions, and reactions. The calmer the EMT/ police/ firefigher the more they will "have their head on their shoulders" and be able to think. As a side note, I ran one time as an EMT. The call was for a 40 year old woman in cardiac arrest. I tripped, flew about 10 feet in front of me and almost took out 2 other rescuers, a car and I could have seriously injured myself. Now, where would we have been with an additional patient (who the rescuers know quite well as opposed to the stranger) or even multiple more patients? Its all a matter of staying calm and doing the best job possible, which only results from calm, orderly thought processess. PS: I've been an EMT for 6 years and have been on DZ's since 2001. I don't run around scenes with strangers, I don't run around accident scenes with friends. I get there quickly, then calm down and assess and provide care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #61 December 18, 2005 QuoteAmbulances have sirens and lights so that they can get to an accident scene quicker, so obviously that means that time is important. So I just don't quite understand why, once you've finished arriving at the scene in a great hurry, all of a sudden things switch to go-slow mode for the last few hundred feet. John, Getting there is more important then getting their fast. If you get in a wreck driving there or fall on your ass running around once there, you have just become part of the problem and given up being part of the solution. By running to and fro all you do is raze the anxiety level of everyone else on the scene. Moving “with purpose” and with efficiency will serve the patient better and allow the EMS personnel to make it through the shift. The State of CA did a study in the early 80's on Fire Dept. units driving Code 3 to an incident. The units that drove balls to the wall did not get there any quicker than the units that observed a 35 mph speed limit on surface streets. But they did wear out the brakes on the units at twice the rate. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropdeded 0 #62 December 18, 2005 This really is an interesting thread. I do "hurry" on scene at times, I dont doubt that I will "run" sooner or later if it is how something goes down but I dont really see it. Reading both sides of the replies here I dont know if it CAN be explained (and understood)why we dont run. Seen some good attempts to explain it, but I dont think I can so I wont try. No, I dont run on scene, and I'd prefer not working with people that do. Make sense, didnt think so dropdeded------------------------------------------ The Dude Abides. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #63 December 18, 2005 Hell, when dealing with any medical emergency, the first step is to check your own pulse. Do it before you start checking on others because if you don't have control of yourself, things tend to go from bad to worse right quick. Considering my career, I've seen numerous levels of negligence and avarice. Still, the stories about a nurse having someone with a broken back sit up sound as bullshit and concocted as anything I've ever heard. Everybody knows that in an emergency, don't move a person more than is absolutely necessary to either let the person live (if the car is in flames and the person is inside, paralysis is an acceptable risk) or to get the person to tretment. Maybe the original poster's story would ring true outside of the US, where lawsuits are more difficult. But, here in the US, most medical professionals generally stay out of medical situations unless their immediate intervention is absolutely necessary. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #64 December 19, 2005 Quote That sounds contradictory to me. 1) Seconds count. 2) Running saves seconds. 3) Therefore, running can save a life. You can assess a situation while running towards it. But hey, if I'm pumping out my last quart of blood, or gasping my last breathes of air - please, don't break out into a sweat over me. Should this "no running" rule also apply to police and firemen, who also have people depending upon them to save their lives? God I love whuffo's....and your definately one of them. You need to quit watching johnny and roy. By the way...I've been a Firefighter since 1994...Don't run if I am on a fire scene. (hoses break ankles), and when I was a cop for 3 years I didn't run then either(bullets kill cops dead). Once again...only time I have ever ran to a scene was for a kid that was laying in the middle of a roadway. THAT was because he was in the way of vehicles after being chucked out of his daddies car. Running to a person's aid does nothing. Also one other thing. on an average EMS call I bring in a 75pound airway bag, a 35pound monitor/defibrilator, an O2 cylinder that weighs about 10 pounds, a drug box that weighs another 20pounds or so, a portable suction unit taht weights 15 pounds. YOU tell me how i'm going to run with all this stuff even when I have a partner right there. YOU obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Like I said go back to watching your johnny and roy reruns and stay in your little fantasy land of yours. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #65 December 19, 2005 QuoteStill, the stories about a nurse having someone with a broken back sit up sound as bullshit and concocted as anything I've ever heard. I've seen this!!! Working in the ER one night and in walks a post MVA patient who's buddy drove him from the accident scene. I tell the RN that he needs to be boarded and she says no. I palpate his spine and he has pain to C4, C5, C6, C7. Patient kept saying he feels like his head is going to fall off. nurse once again ignores me...I get the Doc at this point. Turns out patient had Fx's of everything from C3 to T2. But the nurse fought me and fought me. Then she got reprimanded. Nurses and medics and EMT's and Doc's do not know all. and there really are some idiots out there for sure. Just hope they don't care for you...and if they do, you need to complain. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #66 December 19, 2005 >So I just don't quite understand why, once you've finished arriving at > the scene in a great hurry, all of a sudden things switch to go-slow > mode for the last few hundred feet. Based on that statement I suspect you haven't been to many of these scenes. At one such incident, that resulted in the death of a friend of mine, the only person NOT running around was Matt, who was a paramedic. He was methodically getting oxygen set up, starting IV's, and giving us advice with CPR. He was also the one who remembered things like gloves - and got a lot more done than any of us, who were full of adrenalin. Amy has had to fight this tendency to hurry. One thing that EMT's and paramedics get trained for that Amy never learned is how to protect _themselves._ (After all, there aren't too many airbags about to fire in a hospital room.) At a recent accident she found herself with her arms in a shattered window, stabilizing someone's neck, trying to run next to a car that had started to roll downhill. Had she slowed down and thought about it, she may not have ended up in that position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #67 December 20, 2005 QuoteAt a recent accident she found herself with her arms in a shattered window, stabilizing someone's neck, trying to run next to a car that had started to roll downhill. Had she slowed down and thought about it, she may not have ended up in that position. Now that could have had a VERY tragic outcome for your bride. Very scary. But, a good example of why we assess the scene before we go rushing into it at a full clip. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #68 December 20, 2005 I had one ambulance ride, unconscious and broken up some, from a bronc at a rodeo. Made a few more trips to the hospital for other rodeo injuries to myself and friends. A few more trips for logging injuries to myself and others. Made a couple more trips for skydiving injuries. The EMT's are usually great. They're just there doing there job. I recall arguing with one once because he wanted me to go to the hospital after being hurt at a rodeo, and I kept explaining I didn't have any insurance and wasn't going. At another rodeo a friend broke his neck and he had to argue with everyone how he wasn't getting in the "damn" back of the ambulance, and rode up front like he was in a cab to the hospital. (Probably not too smart.) I suspect EMT's get tired of this after a while. Once you're in the hospital I've heard more than a few comments about how you must be "nuts". Or, "Why would you do that?". Usually this is by nurses and a few doctors working on you. I've never let it bother me much. Too bad for them if they don't understand what's really fun in life.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverjerry 0 #69 December 20, 2005 i have been around for a while on dzs and seen the aftermath of the things we do wrong and only once have i had anything to say bad about medics doctors or police who are there to help clear the landing area so we can resume dancing. once i had to fisicaly restrain an over eger fire man who wanted to help move a student, and a few times the same for over eager skydivers but for the rest they have always been proffesional. respect to all of them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #70 December 20, 2005 Quote...Or, "Why would you do that?". Usually this is by nurses and a few doctors working on you. Heh heh - that would be a good thing to ask one of those same docs when they're giving a prostate exam up someone's wazoo: "Why would you want to go and do that for a living?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #71 December 21, 2005 QuoteQuote...Or, "Why would you do that?". Usually this is by nurses and a few doctors working on you. Heh heh - that would be a good thing to ask one of those same docs when they're giving a prostate exam up someone's wazoo: "Why would you want to go and do that for a living?" Oh, I agree! My ex-doctor seemed to be enjoying that part of his job way to much..... That's one of the worst parts about getting old is having to get your damn prostate checked on a regular basis....Yuck! Who'd take a job like that?....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #72 December 31, 2005 QuoteThat sounds contradictory to me. 1) Seconds count. 2) Running saves seconds. 3) Therefore, running can save a life. You can assess a situation while running towards it. But hey, if I'm pumping out my last quart of blood, or gasping my last breathes of air - please, don't break out into a sweat over me. Should this "no running" rule also apply to police and firemen, who also have people depending upon them to save their lives? The "no running" rule does apply to police and fire. Again, we don't run. Dress in your snow/ski clothes, put a 35 weight on your back and wrap a shirt around your mouth, then try to run 100 yards, then try to button up the buttons on your shirt. Your hands shake, your head bobs up and down as you try to catch your breath, your head swims and your vision blurs. That's what it's like for a fire guy. EMS guys have it just as bad, just due to the amount of gear that has to be moved to a scene...that stuff is heavy and awkward! Now imagine if you had to a) maneuver through a smoke filled house dragging 50 or 60 lbs behind you (a charged hose line), b) start an IV (like threading a medium sized needle with thread), or c) figure out medicine calculation based off a guestimated weight after making that little run. That's a pretty average day for us. And, with due respect, until you've done it you have no idea why it's difficult to do. Take a class, do a ride along, get some education on why things are the way they are. It should be clear by now that pretty much everyone on this board who's involved with fire/EMS feels the same way...think there might be a reason why? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #73 December 31, 2005 Ha! skydivers got it made! imagine the Attitude they have with us BASE jumpers. or, the attitude that conservative skydivers have when a BASE jumper gets hurt. ... -SPACE- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MissyOutTheBox 0 #74 January 13, 2006 Being an EMT myself I personally would never treat anyone with disrespect while treating them. Whether it s from jumping out of an airplane (Which mind you has less injuries than the driving of an automobile) or other activities.. It was probably due to inexperience. Please don't hold it against all of us EMT's. We are all of a different species...lol ------------------------------------------------------------ Have always wanted to be a social butterfly but now I have the wind beneath my feet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
