goofyjumper 0 #1 June 16, 2004 This past weekend on my last jump of the day, I was doing a 4-way. One of the other jumpers is alot bigger than us and ended up going low on us. Normally we would try and swoop down to him but the jump was almost over anyway, so we just decided to have a nice little spin before track off. As I was tracking off I thought to myself look around for the other guy that went low before you pull. Right at that time I looked directly below me and saw him about 100-200ft (not real sure) below me waving off! I imediately did a 90 degree turn and tracked as fast as I could watching him the whole time. I saw that he was deploying and I was far enough away from him, so I deployed. As I was deploying, I could see him shoot up super fast about 50 ft away from me. That was quite a scare. I am so glad I looked for him because I probably wouldn't be here right now. And neither would he. That was quite a bit of an extra adrenaline rush, not one that I really want though. I guess the lesson here is to make sure you give a big wave off and look around before doing so. Also always be aware of the other jumpers that are with you. Alot of people tell me that never even wave off anymore, that is a bad habit, please think of this next time you decide not to wave off. Also Be aware of your surroundings!----------------- I love and Miss you so much Honey! Orfun #3 ~ Darla Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisL 2 #2 June 16, 2004 I hope you spoke to him afterwards and told him what he almost did. There arent any good reasons I can think of to pull in place after going low on a RW jump.__ My mighty steed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #3 June 16, 2004 Quoteso we just decided to have a nice little spin before track off. Not sure what that means, but if the rest of you chose to play around in the sky instead of keeping your eyes on the low jumper, you're at fault too. The whole point of the wave off is to let other jumpers know you're about to pull, he did what he was supposed to do. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #4 June 16, 2004 Having the group on very different levels at breakoff is a situation that can go bad in a hurry. Do what you can to make sure everyone is on the same vertical plane at breakoff. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goofyjumper 0 #5 June 16, 2004 I really never blamed anyone. I was telling my story and the lesson I learned. When we came down from the jump, we all talked about it. And everyone on the jump was looking out for the low man. I just happened to be the one above him. Nobody was mad, we just learned from this incident. I was just posting a reminder about wave offs and being aware of your surroundings and how important that is. I don't believe that anyone is to blame.----------------- I love and Miss you so much Honey! Orfun #3 ~ Darla Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #6 June 16, 2004 Low man always has right of way.....and breakoff is not the time for pissing around having an extra bit of fun.........its time to locate others, find clear air, tracking hard, waving off and opening at the correct altitude........ Dumping high is dangerous as well....... These disciplines are there for a reason......to keep people alive...... Do not jump with anyone who can't/won't follow these rules.......you'll be doing yourself a favour......My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustRelax 0 #7 June 16, 2004 That is what hapenned to me 2 weekends ago, when I was the low one. In my case a guy above me didnt look for me. After I openned I saw and heard him streaming past me about 20 feet away. Close call! I talked a bit about it in the "Look out from below" thread. A good rule I have picked up is if you are the low one, beak off 1,000 feet eariler than planned and track off. Keeps the low person out of a possible collision path. Since I may be in your situation one day, I figure when I track I should take a moment at the end to scan below me just in case. Does that sound like a good strategy? I suppose the priority is to be aware of where all other jumpers are in relation to you, something I am working on but not quite nailed yet. ________________________________________ Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #8 June 16, 2004 I'm not really enthused about that plan unless you KNOW you cannot get back. Even if you spend the whole skydive cupping the ball, I would like for you to be as close as possible at breakoff so that everyone can see each other. ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustRelax 0 #9 June 16, 2004 QuoteI'm not really enthused about that plan unless you KNOW you cannot get back. Even if you spend the whole skydive cupping the ball, I would like for you to be as close as possible at breakoff so that everyone can see each other. Yes I agree. Getting up to the others should be a priority, but the 1,000 foot early break off is if you are nearing the bottom of the dive and, as you say, KNOW you cannot get back up to the others. ________________________________________ Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #10 June 16, 2004 Not only that but low man really does have the right of way, even if he got there by making a mistake. When I break off from RW i consider it the scariest part of the skydive and really try to pay as much attention as possible to tracking my ass off AND paying attention to where others have gone. -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #11 June 16, 2004 QuoteAfter I openned I saw and heard him streaming past me about 20 feet away. Close call! People tend to say "Wow, that was close" and not look at the seriousness. You almost died. I'd give this a lot more thought and talk to the most experienced 4-way person on your dz. QuoteA good rule I have picked up is if you are the low one, beak off 1,000 feet eariler than planned and track off. Keeps the low person out of a possible collision path. Be aware of line-of-flight. If you are tracking back up line-of-flight, you just have aded extra time to get into the airspace of the group that followed you out. Personally, I prefer if a person stays until they arrive at the previously determined breakoff altitude before tracking. That way I know where they are. Some people suck at tracking. I don't want to lose track of them and then catch them. On larger-ways, this becomes extremely important. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #12 June 16, 2004 QuotePersonally, I prefer if a person stays until they arrive at the previously determined breakoff altitude before tracking. That way I know where they are. Thats my preference too. Never give up trying to get back up. But make sure its the local custom at a DZ if you travel.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #13 June 16, 2004 I think a little something is missing here and that's the concept of clearing your airspace while waving off, before pulling, etc. On tracking dives it's always a barrel roll for me at the end (a very fortuitous barrel roll on my last dive) and at wave off on any other dive it's twist head as far as possible to each side to check for traffic above... Low man may have right of way but personally I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure I'm not dumping with some over me. Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #14 June 16, 2004 QuoteLow man may have right of way but personally I'm gonna do everything I can to make sure I'm not dumping with some over me. Since you are starting out on essentially the same level at breakoff, as you track away, glance under each armpit. It is an easy way to tell if someone is nearby in the early stages of your track. Starting a corrective action at your earliest opportunity can help you get extra separation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #15 June 16, 2004 QuoteSince I may be in your situation one day, I figure when I track I should take a moment at the end to scan below me just in case. Does that sound like a good strategy? Absolutely. Better yet, be glancing down, to the right, to the left and above you (as much as you can anyway) as you track. And learn to track well - flat and fast. By learning to track hard you may be able to avoid some of these type situations. You'll know you have it when you are looking below and behind you at the people who were next to you on the skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #16 June 16, 2004 QuoteI hope you spoke to him afterwards and told him what he almost did. Which was what, ...exactly? QuoteThere arent any good reasons I can think of to pull in place after going low on a RW jump. True, but... Where did it say anywhere that he pulled in place??? I must have missed that one somewhere. Wanna re-think your input there into this one, or should I spell it out a little more for you? P.S. ...Sunshine's got this about the closest from the perspective I am referring to here. <--(edited to add)coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #17 June 16, 2004 Glad you saw the guy and got out of the way. When a jumper, especially a lower experience jumper, goes below you, be afraid, be very afraid. I feel it's like looking down the barrel of a gun. Break off higher, get out of the way, and watch for the wave off, or like what happened to my wife, the pull with no waveoff. The low jumper should have tracked away earlier, perpindicular to the jump run direction. You guys did okay, but try to do better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZoneRat 0 #18 June 16, 2004 Quote I feel it's like looking down the barrel of a gun. That's exactly how it feels. Equally unnerving is that glance over the shoulder and seeing someone above you. We all get to be on both sides of that little gambit from time to time. When I'm above someone, I do anything to change that. Side-slide, track to one side. Stop tracking completely, turn 45°... whatever seems right at the time. When I'm low, I keep goin' straight and hard and I pull low.“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #19 June 16, 2004 Well, part of the pre dive plan you make with all the jumpers on the dive...is what the break off drills are.....for all the scenarios......normal breakoff, funnels, working limits etc.....and everyone knows and sticks to that plan religiously..... Changing the plan mid dive, is not on, and anyone who does so should expect to be axed from the load......breakoff shouldn't be a time to be guessing about people are gonna do......nobody appreciates surprises at or above breakoff/opening time.... And if you scan properly during your track you should be able to see everyone else.....if you can't he could be in your blind spot..... And thats why everyone needs to wave off..........My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
