Krl1 0 #1 June 4, 2004 I will be in Las Vegas this weekend on a short family visit, and I thought I would take the opportunity to spend some time in the wind tunnel before I make my AFF Level II jump. Is there any reason to log the time I spend in the tunnel in my logbook? Any suggestions on what to work on specifically? I realize my second question is a loaded one. Thanks in advance! B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffD 0 #2 June 4, 2004 I would count it as air time, but it doesn't count for jumps. Also log what you did in there so you can talk to your instructors about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #3 June 4, 2004 QuoteI would count it as air time, but it doesn't count for jumps. Also log what you did in there so you can talk to your instructors about it. No, its not air time. Its not freefall time. Its tunnel time. Log it in a tunnel log if you want, on on the back page of your logbook to keep track, but its not freefall time.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #4 June 4, 2004 I "log" mine in that I will put a notation in my log book that I went to the tunnel on "X" date and spent "Y" time in the tunnel with "Z" coach. I do not include it in air time.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakflyer9999 1 #5 June 4, 2004 QuoteNo, its not air time. Its not freefall time. Why isn't it air time or freefall time? Log it. It is definitely experience flying your body. The USPA may not count it towards ratings, but who cares? It's your log book, you can log anything that you want and tunnel time is a great learning experience. As common as tunnels are becoming, I'd be willing to bet that the USPA eventually recognizes tunnel time for training purposes. Who knows, they might even require it one of these days. KG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genoyamamoto 0 #6 June 5, 2004 QuoteWhy isn't it air time or freefall time? I would consider you under a state of freefall when the distance between your body and the ground is continually decreasing without being impeded by a drag-production object like a canopy. In a windtunnel the distance between your body and the ground can increase, therefore you are no longer falling, rather rising. Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base698 14 #7 June 5, 2004 Because while tunnel flying is a lot like skydiving there are a lot of notable differences with respect to flying, especially freeflying. You also don't have to worry about others, your spot or altitude, all of which are key points to being aware in freefall. I log it separate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #8 June 5, 2004 QuoteI would consider you under a state of freefall when the distance between your body and the ground is continually decreasing without being impeded by a drag-production object like a canopy. I agree with you *almost*. What about drogue fall time? Can't I log my Tandem jumps?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #9 June 5, 2004 I note it when it happens in the correct spot in the log book...I note minutes, coach, where, what worked on. I do NOT count it as air time, nor do I think it should be. It's interesting to note the progression in the jumps immediately preceeding, and those following tunnel time. It's a good way to remember what you want to work on in freefall, and to see the progression. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
genoyamamoto 0 #10 June 6, 2004 QuoteI agree with you *almost*. What about drogue fall time? Can't I log my Tandem jumps? You log tandem jumps? j/k I guess a more correct definition instead of a drag-producing object would have been a device that allows a survivable, controlled landing (aka flight). In the case of flight one has control over the vertical rate of descent, i.e. by flaring a canopy one can increase the distance to the ground. So when people start landing wingsuits i'd say that it is no longer freefall, it would be more like flight. Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #11 June 6, 2004 Log it, but not as freefall time. I have little sub sections of my log book, (when I logged) Tandems, Demos, 4way jumps, tunnel time all were logged as seperate parts...So it could have been jump # 2000 but Tandem # 100 or 4way #1,400. Simulated skydiving time is NOT skydiving, so it should not count towards SKYDIVING ratings....So log it, but its not Freefall time. I know some people have a "Tunnel book"."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #12 June 6, 2004 I log it with my skydives, but I keep a separate total for "tunnel time" and don't include it in freefall time: example: two way, time: 60 sec. total time 00:52:41 tunnel, time: 5 min. Total time: 00:31:00 two way, time: 60 sec. total time: 00:53:41 tunnel time: 10 min. total time: 00:41:00 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #13 June 7, 2004 Anybody log creeper time? Although I know base jumpers that log really high jumps into water as fixed object jumps. I know of nobody that logs tunnel time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #14 June 7, 2004 QuoteIt's your log book, you can log anything that you want Thats right. You can also log jumps you dont do if you really want. Tunnels time is great training, no doubt, but its not freefall time.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martz 0 #15 June 7, 2004 In simple word it's freefall time ... Are you falling in a tunnel ??? You got your answer just my opinion ...=============================== Ourson # 5 impatient de sauter # 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #16 June 7, 2004 QuoteIn simple word it's freefall time ... Are you falling in a tunnel ??? No, you are not falling in a tunnel unless the fan breaks. So tunnel time would not be FREEFALL time then would it? Log it in your log book if you wish, but don't include it in total freefall time."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #17 June 7, 2004 I just shake my head sometimes.... Since when did tunnel training become skydiving????? You're time in actual freefall serves other purpose in your actual skydiving proficiency then turning points. Altitude awareness, observation skills, exposure to problems, etc.... All the CSPA (and I can only assume USPA) requirements for licenses and ratings thats ask some FF time ask just that: Freefall time. Dont cheat.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #18 June 7, 2004 QuoteI just shake my head sometimes.... You are not alone there! ...Why oh why is this persisting? QuoteSince when did tunnel training become skydiving????? Absolutely agreed. (again, why oh WHY is this "insistance" somehow that tunnel time is either skydiving, or "freefall"?? It is NEITHER people!!! ...I like the comment about creeper time! The wind tunnel is a TRAINING AID, just like a creeper, or heck a hanging harness or VR simulator can be. ...Anyone also want to log those?? C'mon folks, put this one to bed. As has already been said (several times, and by several people) log whatever you want in your own personal log book, but puh-leeze DON'T try to pass off ANY TRAINING AID time as actual skydiving/freefall time! ...'K? 'nuff said? Blue Skies, -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #19 June 7, 2004 No need to log the tunnel, video all of your tunnel experience. Its a tool, you are working on something. Video it so you can keep learning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #20 June 7, 2004 QuoteIn simple word it's freefall time ... Are you falling in a tunnel ??? /reply] It would be more accurate to say you're floating, not falling. I did 30 minutes between jumps 8 and 10. I could do a Gorman (Aliens) and say I've done 44 jumps .... 30 simulated. But while at that point I was still extremely tense going to the door exit, I had no worries at all in the tunnel. Being able to focus just on legs and symmetry is quite useful, but it isn't skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kris 0 #21 June 8, 2004 QuoteI just shake my head sometimes.... Since when did tunnel training become skydiving????? What? You don't log your creeper and dirt dive time, too? Seriously though, if it's simulated, it doesn't count towards real freefall.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites martz 0 #22 June 8, 2004 QuoteIt would be more accurate to say you're floating, not falling. You're right so don't log it as freefall time !=============================== Ourson # 5 impatient de sauter # 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites marcandalysse 0 #23 June 9, 2004 I do as ladyskydiver does, I log the date, my flying time in tunnel, and the coach. Then I multiply the total minutes by $10 and see how much I've spent in that big noisy tin can!!! OUCH!! No its not freefall. And it is good to save your videos. Besides watching what I was doing, I can go back and watch how my coach and the better flyers are moving their bodies....there is always alot to learn.... marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #24 June 9, 2004 Simple: Log tunnel time as tunnel time . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Kris 0 #21 June 8, 2004 QuoteI just shake my head sometimes.... Since when did tunnel training become skydiving????? What? You don't log your creeper and dirt dive time, too? Seriously though, if it's simulated, it doesn't count towards real freefall.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martz 0 #22 June 8, 2004 QuoteIt would be more accurate to say you're floating, not falling. You're right so don't log it as freefall time !=============================== Ourson # 5 impatient de sauter # 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcandalysse 0 #23 June 9, 2004 I do as ladyskydiver does, I log the date, my flying time in tunnel, and the coach. Then I multiply the total minutes by $10 and see how much I've spent in that big noisy tin can!!! OUCH!! No its not freefall. And it is good to save your videos. Besides watching what I was doing, I can go back and watch how my coach and the better flyers are moving their bodies....there is always alot to learn.... marc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #24 June 9, 2004 Simple: Log tunnel time as tunnel time . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
