catfishhunter 2 #1 June 1, 2004 While things turned out ok this could have been ugly. Went up for my buddies 400th Jump yesteray. We planned an 11 way which turned turned into a big cluster with only 5 of us actually getting in before break off. Kelly the jumper whos 400th it was dumped at 4500 to signal break off. I turned and tracked off stopped and looked up at 3000ish before deploying. I saw a jumper directly above me. I turned and tracked 2-3 more seconds looked back and saw them deploying. I then waved went to deploying and couldn't find my hackey. I tried again nope not where I left it, looked down and realized HOLY SHIT the ground looks big! Instead of going silver immedialtly I tried for my hackey again. I figure I dumped somewhere near 1800. To make matters worse my canopy decides to snivel for the very first time! My canopy was still snivelling when my skytronic starts screaming the flatline at 1500 I thought about chopping but instead started yanking on my rear risers and got the canopy fully inflated at 1200. I made 2 turns and landed. I Know what I did wrong and I talked to ALOT of people about it and drilled myself over and over "TRY TWICE GO SILVER" I spent way to much time trying to get my main over my head and nearly ran out of air. If it had been a malfuntion this would be an incident instead of a saftey and training. I have heard people talk about ground rush and how it can do weird things to the brain. I know now what they meant. This is what I learned: 1. Don't go LOW 2. Try Twice Go Silver 3. Get a Canopy over my head by my hard deck doesn't mean it HAS to be my main This might help someone and then again maybe not but I did learn that while I might think I am a heads up jumper I can still make thinking errors that WILL KILL ME! BSBD MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #2 June 1, 2004 You keep saying try twice then go silver. Just remember that is altitude dependant! If you are trying the first time at 1700 feet, perhaps trying once is enough. Have a set plan before you go up. You should know yourself and know your gear to determine your hard deck altitudes. Mine is about 1500 go main. Below 1500 go silver. If I go for my main in the low zone (1500 - 2000), if I fumble or miss, the silver right away. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jannu 0 #3 June 1, 2004 So where did you find your hackey from on the third try? Glad you're ok Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lewmonst 0 #4 June 1, 2004 QuoteWhile things turned out ok this could have been ugly. Went up for my buddies 400th Jump yesteray. We planned an 11 way which turned turned into a big cluster with only 5 of us actually getting in before break off. And you didn't learn anything from this? What was the planned 11 way? belly? QuoteI turned and tracked off stopped and looked up at 3000ish before deploying. I saw a jumper directly above me. This is the danger of not being able to keep track of everyone you jump with. If your group cannot stay on level with eachother than you should probably not jump together. I understand the desire to celebrate a n-hundreth with a big-way, but you also don't want to celebrate an incident either. You risk a mid-air collision during the jump and potentially worse a collision on opening. That is VERY dangerous. Keep it safe. Glad you and your friends are ok. peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites catfishhunter 2 #5 June 1, 2004 QuoteSo where did you find your hackey from on the third try? I was reaching for it where it normally is..It was pushed lower in the BOC and down from where it normally is.I think it had gotten banged around when the exit funnled and people ended up on my back This wouldn't have been much of an issue at 3000K but at 2000k the ground was getting BIG real fast and I got fixated on getting it out and it was not where it was Suppose to be QuoteJust remember that is altitude dependant! If you are trying the first time at 1700 feet, perhaps trying once is enough Agreed at 3k this wouldn't have been a problem at all but I didn't look at my Alti again after 3k it was 2 or 3 seconds before i went to dump which is about 4-500' for me. I took me another 3 seconds to find my hackey which put me sub 2k QuoteHave a set plan before you go up. You should know yourself and know your gear to determine your hard deck altitudes. Mine is about 1500 go main. Below 1500 go silver. If I go for my main in the low zone (1500 - 2000), if I fumble or miss, the silver right away. I thought I had that drilled into my head. That is why I posted this because when ground rush set in I got fixated on getting my main out instead of going silver at my hard deck which is 1800. I made alot of mental errors at pull time that I really didn't think I would make, luckily they didn't kill me. That is why I posted this. Just might get someone else to think about what they would do when they end up where they don't expect to be. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites catfishhunter 2 #6 June 1, 2004 QuoteAnd you didn't learn anything from this? What was the planned 11 way? belly? Yes it was belly. QuoteThis is the danger of not being able to keep track of everyone you jump with. If your group cannot stay on level with eachother than you should probably not jump together. I understand the desire to celebrate a n-hundreth with a big-way, but you also don't want to celebrate an incident either. You risk a mid-air collision during the jump and potentially worse a collision on opening. That is VERY dangerous. Keep it safe. Nearly everyone on the jump has made many many jumps together. Only one person on the jump that I had never jumped with. I really don't know for sure who tracked over me, If I did I would have a talk with them but that wasn't as big a factor as my poor decison making. QuoteGlad you and your friends are ok. Thanks MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nullified 0 #7 June 2, 2004 QuoteNearly everyone on the jump has made many many jumps together. Only one person on the jump that I had never jumped with. Not bustin' your balls, but that wasn't the point. The point...I think...was that it sounds like few if any of the participants had any experience being part of that size skydive. You didn't mention the experience level of the other jumpers, but if less than 50% of them were able to get in to the formation, I can't imagine that there was much experience on that dive, and there was some serious disaster potential. On a more positive note, great job being heads-up enough to check the air above you. You probably saved two lives. Stay safe, Mike If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites samyueru 0 #8 June 2, 2004 Curious...did you have a CYPRES? A little lower and it could've been real bad in that case!! -Alex Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mad47 0 #9 June 2, 2004 It is not directly related to main point, but I am just curious. If you made it in, then how did you end up having someone above you 1500 feet after break off? People who cannot get in usually end up being lower than the base. I would guess the level problem was most likely caused by poor tracking (diving and loosing a lot of altitude instead of flat tracking). Consider working on your tracking skills if you want to jump with big groups. This skill saves your life and opens the doors for hotter and bigger skydives because the jumpers ability to safely manage the break-off is a primary concern of every organizer. If I find myself on 11-way skydive with several people out, my first priority will be to keep track of those people and look for a whole of clear airspace to get the hell out as soon as we reach break-off altitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites catfishhunter 2 #10 June 2, 2004 First no I don't have a Cypress. Second You make a good point about flat tracking. I watched the Video a couple times and I did not flat track. I turned 180 and dove down and swooped my track back flat. I do this out of habit to pick up speed and then punch my track out. I am 6'2" 235# I don't normally cover allot of ground flat tracking, no excuse I need to work on it. Thanks for posting. I didn't notice that on the video until you said that. I will pay more attention to what I am doing next time as well as those around me. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mad47 0 #11 June 2, 2004 Body type is no excuse The first few seconds of break-off are very important. If you turn and dive down, you already loose a lot of altitude relative to other jumpers. I don't feel like posting tips about tracking since I myself need to learn how to do it really well. There were several great posts at dz.com. Look at hook'n'swoop's tips. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites catfishhunter 2 #12 June 2, 2004 Thanks! MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Phillbo 11 #13 June 5, 2004 I'm a low nuimber jumper but I have a tendancy to do a "touch" of my hackey at about 7k.. 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lewmonst 0 #4 June 1, 2004 QuoteWhile things turned out ok this could have been ugly. Went up for my buddies 400th Jump yesteray. We planned an 11 way which turned turned into a big cluster with only 5 of us actually getting in before break off. And you didn't learn anything from this? What was the planned 11 way? belly? QuoteI turned and tracked off stopped and looked up at 3000ish before deploying. I saw a jumper directly above me. This is the danger of not being able to keep track of everyone you jump with. If your group cannot stay on level with eachother than you should probably not jump together. I understand the desire to celebrate a n-hundreth with a big-way, but you also don't want to celebrate an incident either. You risk a mid-air collision during the jump and potentially worse a collision on opening. That is VERY dangerous. Keep it safe. Glad you and your friends are ok. peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #5 June 1, 2004 QuoteSo where did you find your hackey from on the third try? I was reaching for it where it normally is..It was pushed lower in the BOC and down from where it normally is.I think it had gotten banged around when the exit funnled and people ended up on my back This wouldn't have been much of an issue at 3000K but at 2000k the ground was getting BIG real fast and I got fixated on getting it out and it was not where it was Suppose to be QuoteJust remember that is altitude dependant! If you are trying the first time at 1700 feet, perhaps trying once is enough Agreed at 3k this wouldn't have been a problem at all but I didn't look at my Alti again after 3k it was 2 or 3 seconds before i went to dump which is about 4-500' for me. I took me another 3 seconds to find my hackey which put me sub 2k QuoteHave a set plan before you go up. You should know yourself and know your gear to determine your hard deck altitudes. Mine is about 1500 go main. Below 1500 go silver. If I go for my main in the low zone (1500 - 2000), if I fumble or miss, the silver right away. I thought I had that drilled into my head. That is why I posted this because when ground rush set in I got fixated on getting my main out instead of going silver at my hard deck which is 1800. I made alot of mental errors at pull time that I really didn't think I would make, luckily they didn't kill me. That is why I posted this. Just might get someone else to think about what they would do when they end up where they don't expect to be. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #6 June 1, 2004 QuoteAnd you didn't learn anything from this? What was the planned 11 way? belly? Yes it was belly. QuoteThis is the danger of not being able to keep track of everyone you jump with. If your group cannot stay on level with eachother than you should probably not jump together. I understand the desire to celebrate a n-hundreth with a big-way, but you also don't want to celebrate an incident either. You risk a mid-air collision during the jump and potentially worse a collision on opening. That is VERY dangerous. Keep it safe. Nearly everyone on the jump has made many many jumps together. Only one person on the jump that I had never jumped with. I really don't know for sure who tracked over me, If I did I would have a talk with them but that wasn't as big a factor as my poor decison making. QuoteGlad you and your friends are ok. Thanks MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nullified 0 #7 June 2, 2004 QuoteNearly everyone on the jump has made many many jumps together. Only one person on the jump that I had never jumped with. Not bustin' your balls, but that wasn't the point. The point...I think...was that it sounds like few if any of the participants had any experience being part of that size skydive. You didn't mention the experience level of the other jumpers, but if less than 50% of them were able to get in to the formation, I can't imagine that there was much experience on that dive, and there was some serious disaster potential. On a more positive note, great job being heads-up enough to check the air above you. You probably saved two lives. Stay safe, Mike If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
samyueru 0 #8 June 2, 2004 Curious...did you have a CYPRES? A little lower and it could've been real bad in that case!! -Alex Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad47 0 #9 June 2, 2004 It is not directly related to main point, but I am just curious. If you made it in, then how did you end up having someone above you 1500 feet after break off? People who cannot get in usually end up being lower than the base. I would guess the level problem was most likely caused by poor tracking (diving and loosing a lot of altitude instead of flat tracking). Consider working on your tracking skills if you want to jump with big groups. This skill saves your life and opens the doors for hotter and bigger skydives because the jumpers ability to safely manage the break-off is a primary concern of every organizer. If I find myself on 11-way skydive with several people out, my first priority will be to keep track of those people and look for a whole of clear airspace to get the hell out as soon as we reach break-off altitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #10 June 2, 2004 First no I don't have a Cypress. Second You make a good point about flat tracking. I watched the Video a couple times and I did not flat track. I turned 180 and dove down and swooped my track back flat. I do this out of habit to pick up speed and then punch my track out. I am 6'2" 235# I don't normally cover allot of ground flat tracking, no excuse I need to work on it. Thanks for posting. I didn't notice that on the video until you said that. I will pay more attention to what I am doing next time as well as those around me. MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mad47 0 #11 June 2, 2004 Body type is no excuse The first few seconds of break-off are very important. If you turn and dive down, you already loose a lot of altitude relative to other jumpers. I don't feel like posting tips about tracking since I myself need to learn how to do it really well. There were several great posts at dz.com. Look at hook'n'swoop's tips. Cheers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
catfishhunter 2 #12 June 2, 2004 Thanks! MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phillbo 11 #13 June 5, 2004 I'm a low nuimber jumper but I have a tendancy to do a "touch" of my hackey at about 7k.. Just so I know where it is Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
