what should you do on a tracking jump if you hit cloud?

[Newbie 0]

at 7000ft approx, near the end of a 3 way tracking jump, one guy off to my left, pretty much on level but a fair amount of separation (maybe 30 ft away), the other guy way low (like 200ft down) on his back looking up at me, he was off to the right and slightly ahead. At 7k the low guy on the left begins to disappear into a cloud, and my first instinct is now arch hard through the cloud so that at 5000ft (breakoff) we can all acertain where we are, and ensure we track away from each other. I'm watching the guy on the left, our designated leader, and as we begin to hit the cloud at around 7k, rather than follow him i decide to maintain my heading as at 5000ft he is going left anyway to peel off out of the "formation", i would carry on straight ahead, and the guy low and on the right would be peeling off to the right (this is what we said we would do on the dive plan, depending on who was left, middle and right, thats the way you would peel off to separate).

So anyway this cloud - the only big puffy cloud on an otherwise clear day - decided not to comply and at 5000ft i can't see the low guy or the ground now, and i'm pretty sure the guy on my left will now be peeling off left heading back toward the dz as i had seen him pointing that way at 7k, so i decide to power forward and deploy a little higher at about 3500 as i was worried that the low guy could really be anywhere.

What is standard protocol/best practice if you have this sort of separation/level issues on a tracking dive (or i guess any jump where you aren't able to see the others and you have some horizontal and/or vertical separation between you, and you hit cloud a few thousand feet before break off time?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[akarunway 1]

I am Not an instructor. I've punched a few and we all FREEZED and came out the same as we went in.We weren't tracking tho. It can seem hairy at the time but actually pretty cool. We went thru 4 k of cloud one time. Interesting and wet

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[quade 4]

I think there probably isn't a good, safe, "standard" answer to this. Too many variables.

There are times when you can and times when you can't, with a reasonable amount of safety, punch a cloud if that should inadvertantly happen. Cloud bases and tops are a factor as are the visibility within the cloud, your proximity to other jumpers, break off and deployment altitudes. For sure, you probably want to reconsider making the skydive at all if you're not going to be in clear air by break off. Personally, I don't want to do a skydive and will usually pull off the jump given the knowledge and opportunity unless I can be pretty damn sure I'll have visual contact with the ground for break off and be able to see other canopies during deployment.

Conditions which might be marginally reasonable for a 4-way, might not be a great idea for a tracking dive. A spot where you rely on the pilot and GPS to help spot the load -might- be acceptable for folks falling more or less straight down. If you are tracking without much visual contact with the ground . . . well, you might end up over unfamiliar territory. Tracking dives also are usually quite a bit looser with larger distances between jumpers so you'll probably lose visual contact with each other inside a cloud AND have no idea which way you're heading -- not really a good situation, but I can see where a very skilled group in tight formation could probably pull it off reasonably well.

When in doubt, err on the side of not jumping.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Newbie 0]

thanks quade. This cloud came out of nowhere, i guess scanning the skies before going up and as we are lining up on jump run for lurking clouds like this, and avoiding them is the key? There was no cloud base to speak of, just blue, until we hit the cloud - i guess it's something for me to think about when tracking (i.e. whats 1 or 2 miles out, and 5-7000ft below us in the track corridor)

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Ron 10]

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This cloud came out of nowhere

What it just "poofed" into the sky?

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avoiding them is the key

you just answered you own question.

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i guess it's something for me to think about when tracking (i.e. whats 1 or 2 miles out, and 5-7000ft below us in the track corridor)

Again a great observation.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,991]

Some thoughts:

1. In general, when you punch a cloud, the safest thing to do is to continue whatever you were doing before you entered it. That way you don't play the "I wonder if he's tracking back towards the DZ . . but maybe he will asssume that I am tracking back towards the DZ . . ." game. On 4-ways, generally we just continue turning points, then we break off from the center. Even in a dense cloud you'll still be able to see people. On big-ways, if you hit a cloud as you're building, slow down (but don't stop) and stay on level. On a tracking dive, continue the plan so everyone knows what everyone else is doing.


2. Avoid clouds. During RW, the only opportunity to avoid a cloud is on jump run while you're spotting. If you get out over a cloud, you'll punch it (depending on throw and relative winds.) On a tracking dive, you have to avoid the clouds after exit. Tracking dives and wing suit dives have a responsibility to navigate to avoid other traffic and clouds. And if you don't notice the cloud coming - that's a pretty big mistake. Imagine if the cloud had been a high opening tandem. Gotta keep your eyes open.

[Newbie 0]

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This cloud came out of nowhere

What it just "poofed" into the sky?

ok what i should have said was "i haven't done enough formation tracking dives to know that with my level of experience, i should check the track corridor fully, even on a day that only has the odd one or 2 clouds in the sky, and even if i'm not leading".

Say i spot a cloud though as we are lining up on jump run - should i just point and shout to the leader and tell him "cloud"?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Ron 10]

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ok what i should have said was "i haven't done enough formation tracking dives to know that with my level of experience, i should check the track corridor fully, even on a day that only has the odd one or 2 clouds in the sky, and even if i'm not leading".

Well that a lot more accurate than it just "came out of nowhere"...It also shows that you have control over the situation. If it just poped up, you could do nothing. If it was there all along then you flew into it...

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Say i spot a cloud though as we are lining up on jump run - should i just point and shout to the leader and tell him "cloud"?

Not a bad idea. Even if he is the leader, you are still responsable to be safe and legal...And the FAR's say you have to stay 2,000 feet away from a cloud (Below 10,000 feet).

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mr2mk1g 10]

When we do a tracking jump we have 1 leader and then everyone else can direct them as nessasery. Whoever's closest will give the backtracker directions as they cannot see the ground (for obvious reasons). Same would go for cloud.

FAR's don't apply - he's in England - we can bust clouds all we like... well, at least legally, whether it's a good idea or not is another matter.

[bch7773 0]

anytime you are in the air and you don't know where the other skydivers are, i think a good general idea is that before you deploy, do a really good check below and around you. you can even do a barrel roll to check the air above you if you think someone might be up there.

and make sure you do a really good wave off before you deploy, maybe 3 or 4 waves, alitude permitting.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Scrumpot 1]

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i guess scanning the skies before going up and as we are lining up on jump run for lurking clouds like this, and avoiding them is the key?

Another good practice whenever there are ANY clouds in the sky at all, is during climb to make mental note of where the base of them are. Even if they are "scattered" and obviously you plan to avoid them, if you have at least made mental (or heck even verbal ...I've often noted even for others that the clouds seem to base-out at xx k), so then if you do enter one during your jump, you can have a reasonable expectation of when you are going to come out and can "plan" accordingly. General rule of thumb is to always have a plan, ...Plan the dive, then dive the plan. As Quade points out, there can be at times too many variables for just one "standard" answer though. Optimum is always for everyone to KNOW (in advance) what the others may be doing.

Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[riggerrob 643]

if you enter clouds during a skydive, do the same thing as any conscientious pilot: stick to the plan.
If the flock was headed west when it entered a cloud, then continue heading west.

If you decide to vary from the plan, vary in a safe direction i.e. if you were on the left wing of the flock, turn 3o degrees left.
If you were lead, maintain heading and speed.
If you were at the tail of the flock, you may slow down, but stay on heading.
Once you fall out the bottom of the clouds, take a good look around and deploy at the planed altitude.

If you "drift" into clouds under canopy, continue flying straight ahead on your old heading.
If clouds are several thousand feet thick and you worry about getting blown downwind of the DZ, then do slow right turns until you clear clouds.