johnnyoneeye 0 #1 December 1, 2005 Hi, I was wondering if anyone had any advice on the best way to exchange money when buying a used rig. I can have the rig sent to my dropzone, but they do not deal with the money. I can appreciate both sides of the issue: The seller does not want to send his rig without having any money, and the buyer does not want to send his money with out having the rig. Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with this issue? Thanks for your help. John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #2 December 1, 2005 One option would be to use an escrow service. You can google "escrow service" and get several options. It'll cost you a small fee."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sky-pimp 0 #3 December 1, 2005 are you not covered if you use paypal ?? or just go fetch it yourself would you really wana buy a used rig you have never seen or jumped ?? YeHaaaaaaaaaaa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spoons 0 #4 December 2, 2005 Paypal is easy, but I just sold a canopy by wire transfer and that was quite easy too. However it doesn't solve the problem of the actual transfer. If I were a seller I certainly wouldn't send something out without first receiving payment. Whenever I've bought stuff I've just trusted the seller, fortunately it's worked so far I've bought stuff without seeing it before (1 rig and 2 canopies) - obviously it's riskier - you just gotta have a little faith in the skydiver who's selling it That's not so hard in the UK, both times I've bought a rig, someone I know knew the seller. However when buying from the states it's probably a bit riskier, but I did it twice buying canopies from the states and it's worked out just fine...maybe i'm lucky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mwabd1 0 #5 December 2, 2005 C.O.D.--------money order or credit card only. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 4 #6 December 2, 2005 Do the transaction through the local rigger, and you can get the gear inspected before you buy too. Send him the money, he sends the rig and turns over the money. Well, it used to work, but now that the community has gotten so big, I'm not sure if it's the best way. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites seejanefall 0 #7 December 2, 2005 I second that. I've always had them send it to my rigger and have him be the third party for the transaction. _____________ PMS #394 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumper03 0 #8 December 2, 2005 QuoteDo the transaction through the local rigger, and you can get the gear inspected before you buy too. Send him the money, he sends the rig and turns over the money. Well, it used to work, but now that the community has gotten so big, I'm not sure if it's the best way. rl I have used this method successfully myself several times. Plus you get to know people!Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Superman32 0 #9 December 2, 2005 If the rigger is from a larger or well known DZ it may also help ease the mind of seller and buyer. There's always the chance of sending the money or gear to a fake rigger, so a bigger well known DZ is always better Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #10 December 2, 2005 If you want security in your transaction get a mutually trusted person or a person with a reputation (eg, a DZO, or a well known rigger, or a gear store, etc) to vouch for each other. If that's not possible & it's a complete stranger consider using an escrow service. There are many types of fraud, some of them subtle. Most transactions are not fraudulent.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ryoder 1,590 #11 December 2, 2005 QuoteIf the rigger is from a larger or well known DZ it may also help ease the mind of seller and buyer. There's always the chance of sending the money or gear to a fake rigger, so a bigger well known DZ is always better I once had a rig to sell, so the out-of-state buyer suggested we use his local rigger. Seemed like a good idea until the dumbass rigger gave him the rig without paying for it. I only got the money by showing up at the buyers door in person. I would suggest contacting a well-known dealer like Para-Gear or Square1 to see if they would act as the intermediary. The intermediary needs to know parachute gear and be able to do an inspection. Some off-the-wall escrow service would be useless for that."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyfreek 1 #12 December 2, 2005 i sent $ from canada to the states by western union. it was a bit pricey to send, but it was there instantly. as soon as the dude got the $, he shipped my stuff. if it is going across an international border, watch out how it is labeled and insured or you will get hosed on duties and taxes.my friend did it a different way and it took FOREVER to get the check cleared- 3 weeks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bwilling 0 #13 December 2, 2005 The good news is that most of the people in the skydiving community don't want to rip you off... the bad news is that you still each (buyer and seller) need to protect yourself in the transaction. The option to have the gear sent to a reputable rigger or DZO acting as a neutral intermediary is the best option for protecting both the seller and the buyer. The seller ships the rig to a known entity, and shouldn't have to worry about getting either money or the gear back, and the buyer gets a chance to inspect and/or have the gear inspected before handing over the payment, in whatever form is agreed upon by buyer and seller. COD shipments really only protect the seller, as the shipping company is not going to let the buyer inspect the gear before handing over the payment. The guy could ship you a box of rocks, and you wouldn't know it until you had already paid for it. I've bought and sold a number of skydiving related items online (most here on dz.com, thanks HH!), and can honestly say that at the end of the day, all transactions were either good to start with, or resolved to everyone's mutual satisfaction. For the most part, the skydiving community rocks! Good Luck! "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites johnnyoneeye 0 #14 December 2, 2005 Thanks a lot everyone I appreciate all of your suggestions John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #15 December 2, 2005 Quotei sent $ from canada to the states by western union. I'd recommend against Western Union. Its the tool of choice for scammers, and I would never ever sell anything if the buyer suggested using it, no would I buy something from a guy who suggested it. To me, WU sends up huge red flags.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tso-d_chris 0 #16 December 2, 2005 QuoteQuotei sent $ from canada to the states by western union. I'd recommend against Western Union. Its the tool of choice for scammers, and I would never ever sell anything if the buyer suggested using it, no would I buy something from a guy who suggested it. To me, WU sends up huge red flags. Can you elaborate? I'm having trouble understanding how Western Union Money Transfer (not Money Order) can be used in a scam. the money is deposited by the buyer, and only cash is accepted. The seller cannot pick up the money until about fifteen minutes after the cash is deposited. I can see how a seller could run a scam with it, I just don't see the buyer scam. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rmsmith 1 #17 December 2, 2005 The seller of the used rig is "soliciting", and as such the seller should send the rig for inspection prior to any transfer of funds. I have always done business this way. I keep copies of the e-mails, and I ship with USPS Return Receipt that requires a signature to receive the package. This will give the seller the ability to exercise some recourse if things go sour. I don't deal with buyers who are not willing to give up some personal information, yet want you to ship a rig. Also, if a buyer has poor communication skills they most likely have poor earning power too; sorry! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brianfry713 0 #18 December 2, 2005 If you're using something like PayPal or sending a check, the rigger/dropzone doesn't have to actually deal with the money, just be trusted to hold on to the rig until the seller notifies them that payment has been received and cleared.BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #19 December 2, 2005 QuoteCan you elaborate? Sure. If I dont know you and I hear WU, I`m gonna assume its fishy, regardless of what it is. Maybe complately safe and ledgit, but I wouldnt use it.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Superman32 0 #20 December 3, 2005 QuoteIf you're using something like PayPal or sending a check, the rigger/dropzone doesn't have to actually deal with the money, just be trusted to hold on to the rig until the seller notifies them that payment has been received and cleared. I agree. The seller sends the rig for an inspection, and if the inspection goes as expected, the buyer sends the seller the money. Once the money is received, the rigger releases the rig. Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Superman32 0 #21 December 3, 2005 Make use of this site. I bought my rig, form a dz.com poster (ChrisL), and it jus so happened, he had always used my rigger. He had the gear inspected the reserve repacked just before putting it for sale. My transaction consisted of him at meeting at the DZ, having the rigger, confirm that I had indeed the correct rig, tried it on and gave him the check. The whole thing took 15 min. and I'm still ecstatic about the gear. Since the seller was a DZ.commer, I was able to read most of his previous posts, which gave me an excellent idea of how he had cared for the rig, how well he flew and landed, etc. P.S. ChrisL, if you reading this, thank you again. Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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mwabd1 0 #5 December 2, 2005 C.O.D.--------money order or credit card only. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #6 December 2, 2005 Do the transaction through the local rigger, and you can get the gear inspected before you buy too. Send him the money, he sends the rig and turns over the money. Well, it used to work, but now that the community has gotten so big, I'm not sure if it's the best way. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seejanefall 0 #7 December 2, 2005 I second that. I've always had them send it to my rigger and have him be the third party for the transaction. _____________ PMS #394 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #8 December 2, 2005 QuoteDo the transaction through the local rigger, and you can get the gear inspected before you buy too. Send him the money, he sends the rig and turns over the money. Well, it used to work, but now that the community has gotten so big, I'm not sure if it's the best way. rl I have used this method successfully myself several times. Plus you get to know people!Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #9 December 2, 2005 If the rigger is from a larger or well known DZ it may also help ease the mind of seller and buyer. There's always the chance of sending the money or gear to a fake rigger, so a bigger well known DZ is always better Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #10 December 2, 2005 If you want security in your transaction get a mutually trusted person or a person with a reputation (eg, a DZO, or a well known rigger, or a gear store, etc) to vouch for each other. If that's not possible & it's a complete stranger consider using an escrow service. There are many types of fraud, some of them subtle. Most transactions are not fraudulent.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #11 December 2, 2005 QuoteIf the rigger is from a larger or well known DZ it may also help ease the mind of seller and buyer. There's always the chance of sending the money or gear to a fake rigger, so a bigger well known DZ is always better I once had a rig to sell, so the out-of-state buyer suggested we use his local rigger. Seemed like a good idea until the dumbass rigger gave him the rig without paying for it. I only got the money by showing up at the buyers door in person. I would suggest contacting a well-known dealer like Para-Gear or Square1 to see if they would act as the intermediary. The intermediary needs to know parachute gear and be able to do an inspection. Some off-the-wall escrow service would be useless for that."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyfreek 1 #12 December 2, 2005 i sent $ from canada to the states by western union. it was a bit pricey to send, but it was there instantly. as soon as the dude got the $, he shipped my stuff. if it is going across an international border, watch out how it is labeled and insured or you will get hosed on duties and taxes.my friend did it a different way and it took FOREVER to get the check cleared- 3 weeks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwilling 0 #13 December 2, 2005 The good news is that most of the people in the skydiving community don't want to rip you off... the bad news is that you still each (buyer and seller) need to protect yourself in the transaction. The option to have the gear sent to a reputable rigger or DZO acting as a neutral intermediary is the best option for protecting both the seller and the buyer. The seller ships the rig to a known entity, and shouldn't have to worry about getting either money or the gear back, and the buyer gets a chance to inspect and/or have the gear inspected before handing over the payment, in whatever form is agreed upon by buyer and seller. COD shipments really only protect the seller, as the shipping company is not going to let the buyer inspect the gear before handing over the payment. The guy could ship you a box of rocks, and you wouldn't know it until you had already paid for it. I've bought and sold a number of skydiving related items online (most here on dz.com, thanks HH!), and can honestly say that at the end of the day, all transactions were either good to start with, or resolved to everyone's mutual satisfaction. For the most part, the skydiving community rocks! Good Luck! "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnnyoneeye 0 #14 December 2, 2005 Thanks a lot everyone I appreciate all of your suggestions John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #15 December 2, 2005 Quotei sent $ from canada to the states by western union. I'd recommend against Western Union. Its the tool of choice for scammers, and I would never ever sell anything if the buyer suggested using it, no would I buy something from a guy who suggested it. To me, WU sends up huge red flags.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #16 December 2, 2005 QuoteQuotei sent $ from canada to the states by western union. I'd recommend against Western Union. Its the tool of choice for scammers, and I would never ever sell anything if the buyer suggested using it, no would I buy something from a guy who suggested it. To me, WU sends up huge red flags. Can you elaborate? I'm having trouble understanding how Western Union Money Transfer (not Money Order) can be used in a scam. the money is deposited by the buyer, and only cash is accepted. The seller cannot pick up the money until about fifteen minutes after the cash is deposited. I can see how a seller could run a scam with it, I just don't see the buyer scam. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #17 December 2, 2005 The seller of the used rig is "soliciting", and as such the seller should send the rig for inspection prior to any transfer of funds. I have always done business this way. I keep copies of the e-mails, and I ship with USPS Return Receipt that requires a signature to receive the package. This will give the seller the ability to exercise some recourse if things go sour. I don't deal with buyers who are not willing to give up some personal information, yet want you to ship a rig. Also, if a buyer has poor communication skills they most likely have poor earning power too; sorry! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brianfry713 0 #18 December 2, 2005 If you're using something like PayPal or sending a check, the rigger/dropzone doesn't have to actually deal with the money, just be trusted to hold on to the rig until the seller notifies them that payment has been received and cleared.BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #19 December 2, 2005 QuoteCan you elaborate? Sure. If I dont know you and I hear WU, I`m gonna assume its fishy, regardless of what it is. Maybe complately safe and ledgit, but I wouldnt use it.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #20 December 3, 2005 QuoteIf you're using something like PayPal or sending a check, the rigger/dropzone doesn't have to actually deal with the money, just be trusted to hold on to the rig until the seller notifies them that payment has been received and cleared. I agree. The seller sends the rig for an inspection, and if the inspection goes as expected, the buyer sends the seller the money. Once the money is received, the rigger releases the rig. Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #21 December 3, 2005 Make use of this site. I bought my rig, form a dz.com poster (ChrisL), and it jus so happened, he had always used my rigger. He had the gear inspected the reserve repacked just before putting it for sale. My transaction consisted of him at meeting at the DZ, having the rigger, confirm that I had indeed the correct rig, tried it on and gave him the check. The whole thing took 15 min. and I'm still ecstatic about the gear. Since the seller was a DZ.commer, I was able to read most of his previous posts, which gave me an excellent idea of how he had cared for the rig, how well he flew and landed, etc. P.S. ChrisL, if you reading this, thank you again. Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
