LawnDart21 0 #51 November 22, 2005 You bring up a good point, but look at the two comparisons you made, an airline and a day spa. Delta is a macro case, as they sell 1000s and 1000s of seats each month, and part of thier ticket purchase prices are based on, among other things, current fuel costs on that macro level. If they had one person cancel a flight without being charged a fee, they would be fine, but if you have 2,000 people cancel their tickets on a weekend and not be charged a cancellation fee, that would have a major impact on Delta. If it happened over and over again, they could even risk going (surpise in the airline industry........) bankrupt. Now unless your day spa (micro case) had to turn away another customer because your spot was the last free one available, and you cancelled to late for them to rebook the slot, they had no reason to charge you a cancellation fee, as your cancellation cost them nothing if they refilled the slot. And even if they didnt "fill your slot", as long as your appointment didnt prevent them from seeing other people at different times, ie as long as they werent operating continously at full capacity, your reservation/cancellation would have zero impact on their production. So basically you got charged $25 for the privieledge of holding a reservation. Because you paid $25 for nothing related to the service that you sought. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
javajunkie 0 #52 November 22, 2005 QuoteYou bring up a good point, but look at the two comparisons you made, an airline and a day spa. Delta is a macro case, as they sell 1000s and 1000s of seats each month, and part of thier ticket purchase prices are based on, among other things, current fuel costs on that macro level. If they had one person cancel a flight without being charged a fee, they would be fine, but if you have 2,000 people cancel their tickets on a weekend and not be charged a cancellation fee, that would have a major impact on Delta. If it happened over and over again, they could even risk going (surpise in the airline industry........) bankrupt. In the same sense, in the summer Cross Keys sells thousands of tandems a month. The price they charge when they sell a tandem is based on, among other things, current fuel costs and insurance rates. If they had one person cancel a tandem without being charged a fee, they would be fine, but if they had 400 people cancel their tandems on a weekend and not be charged a cancellation fee, that would have a major imapct on Skydive Cross Keys. If it happened over and over again, they could even risk going bankrupt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #53 November 22, 2005 Quotehe must be old!! hehe! He might just not be to lazy to use spellcheck. Not taking the time or effort to do something right says a lot about a person. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #54 November 22, 2005 Quote While I don't agree with the practice, they reluctantly added the "$30 gear rental fee" because Skyride had been doing just that. The only difference is that Skyride didn't tell you about this fee until after you had given them your credit card number and paid. So, wheras originally Freefall Adventure's website showed a price of $185, Skyride's websites would show a price of $165 (without mentioning the additional fees). Students would book through Skyride, thinking they were cheaper, even though they ended up being more expensive when you added on the "hidden fees". Looking at Skyride's, www.skydivephiladelphia.com website, which Jessica said that she used, they quote their tandem jumps as being $165 and video as $85. If you want to nitpick about fees, how is it that they were charged $672 for two jumps that they never made. That comes to $336 per jump with video, which is $86 more expensive, per jump, than their quoted price (and they didn't even get to jump!!!). I'm sure the additional $86 was just Skyride's "9/11 fee", and "terrorist fee". Actually, I believe it was $597 for the 2 jumps plus video, and then $75 for the comically misnamed cancellation fee. It still doesn't make it right, or good, for Crosskeys to join in on the gear rental fee. "First Tandem Skydive Only $139.00" Add $30.00 for gear rental. (in smaller print, no less) Slightly less tacky would to say First Tandem Skydiver on $169, including $30 gear rental. But it makes the industry look like a bunch of scammers. The refund fee is really a non refundable deposit and should be phrased as such. I don't think those are bad, but I wouldn't advise anyone to pay it more than a week in advance. Of course, then you don't get all the money up front. Why should you? I wonder what happens if you get weathered out past the 30 day limit. Do they screw you like Skyride would? Personally, given alternative DZs, I send people elsewhere. I don't buy into the need to emulate the scumbags. And the reasons for dumping Skyride are weaker if other member DZs use the same practices. I think it's bad enough that places will have $129 winter specials, but only to minimal altitude, and then hard sell the upgrade. It's not quite bait n switch, but damn close. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #55 November 22, 2005 QuoteIn the same sense, in the summer Cross Keys sells thousands of tandems a month. The price they charge when they sell a tandem is based on, among other things, current fuel costs and insurance rates. Its not the "same sense" Delta vs Cross Keys. If it were, then like a Delta ticket, why doesnt it (the cost of a tandem) fluctuate each week, as fuel costs and insurance rates go up? Tandem tickets dont typically flucuate during a season, becuase one tandem or a weekend of tandems dont determine how much fuel is bought that week. Most DZs either "pay at the pump" as they need it at an airport, or more common, have a fuel farm that is filled as needed and drawn from. Neither scenario lends itself to the cancelling or not of potential tandem students cancelling (1 or 100) having any affect on the day to day fix and variable costs of running the DZ. Have you ever scratched from a load your were manifested on as a fun jumper? Did you get charged a cancellation fee? Its no different charging a fun jumper a cancellation fee for scratching a load than it is charging a tandem jumper, the difference, the tandem jumper doesnt know any better. If you manifest for a 2 way at 2pm in manifest, and say your 2 loads back, so its a 3pm call, then at 2:20pm, your employer calls your cell, and says, its an emergency, we need you at the office right now. When you go tell manifest that you are scratching the 3pm load, do you think it would be fair that they charge you a cancellation fee? Do you think as a fun jumper, you would continue to jump at a DZ that did that to you? Its not a potential tandem student's job to pad the pockets of a DZ if they choose to cancel a jump within a reasonable time frame, through a "cancellation fee". And yes, to answer your question, if 400 students sign up for tandems and Cross Keys goes out and ferries in extra planes, extra fuel to cover it all, and then they bail, yes, Xkeys has the right to be made whole from the expendature and a "reasonable" fee to compensate them for lost business that they could have made taking other students up. But if those 400 people cancel before the extra plane is contracted, before all the extra fuel is bought, there is no ethical reason on earth (or above it, as our sport goes) to collect cancellation fees from the 400 jumpers if they didnt cause any financial duress to the DZ. Thats pocket padding and its unethical. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #56 November 22, 2005 when did this thread become about crosskeys? nevermind. i just wont read back that far, and ignore this thread from now on. i thought this was a thread where somone thought they got skammed by skyride. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #57 November 22, 2005 Quotewhen did this thread become about crosskeys? Ask Javajunkie, I was simply replying to her analgy that CKs was basically no different than Delta along the lines of what I posted about Delta. If your gonna throw stones, atleast read the thread. For the record, I love CKs, think its a great DZ, my only question (generic) is why any DZ would feel justified in charging a cancellation fee if the cancellation was made with enough time to rebook the slot. I still don't have an answer for that, other than, "thats just the way it is" -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #58 November 22, 2005 QuoteIf your gonna throw stones, atleast read the thread. didn't throw any stone's, you must have mis understood me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #59 November 23, 2005 QuoteQuotehe must be old!! hehe! He might just not be to lazy to use spellcheck. Not taking the time or effort to do something right says a lot about a person. Sparky Believe it or not, in the business world the first 2 things a person notices about you is your shoes and your teeth. They base their first opinion on these two items. I guess, since we can't see each other on a site like this we have to go with spelling and grammar. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #60 November 23, 2005 Why charge a refund fee? If they paid with credit card (Only way to pay online) the DZ is charged a small fee for each transaction. Its typically 1-3% of the total purchase price. On a $175 tandem and $75 video the DZ just paid out between $2.50 and $7.50 in merchant fees just to Visa/Mastercard/etc. Depending on the method of refund the DZ may get charged fees to credit the money back also. So now the DZ has paid out between $5 and $15 just for the pleasure in taking the customers money, holding it for 4 weeks then giving it all back to them. Cash is much easier to deal in, but once again that eliminates the online aspect and now makes it nessicary to keep more cash on hand to cover all the certificates if multiple people ask for a refund at the same time. Lets not get into bounced cheek fees and the associated issues that businesses take by accepting forms of payment outside cash.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #61 November 23, 2005 Phree - these sounds like reasons to just charge a deposit rather than the full freight in advance. 3% (seems unlikely they'd get much lower) of $50 is only 1.50. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdBoi 0 #62 November 23, 2005 Its just a forum!! God whatS wrong with you guys lol Get over it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #63 November 23, 2005 Remember.. those people are buying a Gift Certificate. They might be giving it away, its not a reserveration system. It would'nt make sense to charge only $50 of a $200 tandem gift certificate. Online reservation systems do only take the deposit $ and then charge the full amount after the jump. This way no matter what the deposit is paid (most times thats non-refundable anyways in their policy) and the Customer is only responcible for the rest of the amount after the jump. Large stores like Walmart can eat the transaction fees in their profit margin, but if you look at a lot of DZ's they now have a Normal fee and a "Cash discount fee" for jump tickets. The Visa fee is the reason for that.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
