TheBachelor 5 #1 May 17, 2004 There was a situation at the big-way camp at Perris last weekend where a jumper ended up with 2 canopies out. The initial reaction on the ground was “Cypres fire”, but it turned out to be something more unusual. The reserve closing loop broke after she had deployed her main and released the brakes. After the rigger inspected the container, it was determined that a sharp edge on the reserve grommet had (probably) cut the loop. The 2 canopies deployed in a biplane configuration with the main in front. Since the main was in front, the jumper did not cut it away. She steered towards the landing area using her main toggles to make small turns, allowing the reserve to “catch up” to the main’s turn before turning any further. A canopy manufacturer’s rep was on site, and said that in test jumps he had done with 2 canopies out, he experienced similar behavior with the reserve following the main when small turns were made. Kudos to the jumper for her handling of a dangerous situation, and to Kate, Dan B.C., Tony, and Larry for ensuring that the people who had reserve rides (4 total) had other rigs to jump so they didn’t miss any of the camp’s jumps.There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #2 May 18, 2004 Kudos to the jumper for her handling of a dangerous situation ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What model of main did she have? What model of reserve? How heavy was she loading them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheBachelor 5 #3 May 18, 2004 I BELIEVE that her main was a Sabre2 - 170, probably loaded about 1:1. I don't know what her reserve was.There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #4 May 22, 2004 Quotepeople who had reserve rides (4 total) had other rigs to jump 4 reserve rides? Why so many? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #5 May 23, 2004 QuoteQuotepeople who had reserve rides (4 total) had other rigs to jump 4 reserve rides? Why so many? That was 4 reserves out of 1600 jumps, all on larger formations. That's not all that bad. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #6 May 25, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuotepeople who had reserve rides (4 total) had other rigs to jump 4 reserve rides? Why so many? That was 4 reserves out of 1600 jumps, all on larger formations. That's not all that bad. Sparky I can't believe I'm about to mess with my good juju but 4 out of 1600 is pretty high when I'm sitting at 1 in 2600 including tandems and even military freefall where my rigs are packed by non-jumpers. Please let my juju stay good. Tim T. Team Paraclete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #7 May 26, 2004 Quotemilitary freefall where my rigs are packed by non-jumpers Just an aside... What is the deal with military packers over there? In Oz, army riggers have to be volunteers for parachuting too....-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #8 May 26, 2004 QuotePlease let my juju stay good. Quote When are you making your next jump, I want to watch it. One was a broken reserve loop,one was lost pud at hard deck, one was broken lines and am not sure what the last one was. The first three were not related to packing of the main. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites usskydiver 0 #9 May 26, 2004 QuoteQuotemilitary freefall where my rigs are packed by non-jumpers Just an aside... What is the deal with military packers over there? In Oz, army riggers have to be volunteers for parachuting too.... In the USAF you do not have to be jump qualified to be a parachute rigger. It sound stupid to me also. Tim T. Team Paraclete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites usskydiver 0 #10 May 26, 2004 QuoteQuotePlease let my juju stay good. Quote When are you making your next jump, I want to watch it. One was a broken reserve loop,one was lost pud at hard deck, one was broken lines and am not sure what the last one was. The first three were not related to packing of the main. Sparky The next jump will be this weekend, hopefully. IMO all the situations above still violate one or more of the 3 basic causes for malfunction (poor packing, poor maintenance, poor body position) and I might add poor design but without know all the facts (equipment, type of jump, etc.), I won't further comment. Just my thoughts..... Tim T. Team Paraclete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #11 May 26, 2004 Quoteand I might add poor design but without know all the facts (equipment, type of jump, etc.), I won't further comment. Just my thoughts..... You made the first calls without all the facts. The one was a broken reserve loop after the main was open for some time, hardly the jumpers fault. One was a problem with the a canopy with only 80 jumps, has been returned to the manufacture. The lost pud was a good call by the jumper. imo SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #12 May 26, 2004 What is the deal with military packers over there? In Oz, army riggers have to be volunteers for parachuting too.... In the USAF you do not have to be jump qualified to be a parachute rigger. It sound stupid to me also. Tim T. Team Paraclete >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Parachute riggers in the Canadian Army have to be jump qualified, Canadian Air Force riggers are not. Something about the difference in cost .... It only costs a few thousand dollars to warm up a C-130 jump plane, but a few million to fire an ejection seat. Oh, and the last time Canadian Air Force Search and Rescue Technicians came to play at our civilian DZ, they brought their Army rigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TheBachelor 5 #13 May 26, 2004 Quote One was a broken reserve loop,one was lost pud at hard deck, one was broken lines and am not sure what the last one was. The first three were not related to packing of the main. Sparky The last one was a line over and the jumper was using a packer. The packer was more bothered by it than the jumper.There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites usskydiver 0 #14 May 26, 2004 QuoteQuoteand I might add poor design but without know all the facts (equipment, type of jump, etc.), I won't further comment. Just my thoughts..... You made the first calls without all the facts. The one was a broken reserve loop after the main was open for some time, hardly the jumpers fault. One was a problem with the a canopy with only 80 jumps, has been returned to the manufacture. The lost pud was a good call by the jumper. imo Sparky Mark, Don't put words in my mouth. I stated that 4 reserve rides in 1600 seemed high and that the malfunctions all seem attributable to the 3 (or 4 - design) basic causes. Here's my thought process: Broken Reserve Loop - Maintenance Problem w/ canopy - Design Floating pud - Packing? Design? Maintenance? Line Over - Packing I said I wouldn't hazard a guess on attributing to design without knowing all the facts - as they pertain to design. The rest is easy to surmise. Tim T. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #15 May 26, 2004 My name is not MarkMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites usskydiver 0 #16 May 26, 2004 QuoteMy name is not Mark Sorry, Mike Tim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #17 May 26, 2004 QuoteQuoteMy name is not Mark Sorry, Mike Tim Are you calling me sorry?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites usskydiver 0 #18 May 27, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteMy name is not Mark Sorry, Mike Tim Are you calling me sorry? I would never call anyone with a 4 digit D license number "Sorry" when I have a zip code. Tim T. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #19 May 27, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteMy name is not Mark Sorry, Mike Tim Are you calling me sorry? I would never call anyone with a 4 digit D license number "Sorry" when I have a zip code. 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usskydiver 0 #9 May 26, 2004 QuoteQuotemilitary freefall where my rigs are packed by non-jumpers Just an aside... What is the deal with military packers over there? In Oz, army riggers have to be volunteers for parachuting too.... In the USAF you do not have to be jump qualified to be a parachute rigger. It sound stupid to me also. Tim T. Team Paraclete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #10 May 26, 2004 QuoteQuotePlease let my juju stay good. Quote When are you making your next jump, I want to watch it. One was a broken reserve loop,one was lost pud at hard deck, one was broken lines and am not sure what the last one was. The first three were not related to packing of the main. Sparky The next jump will be this weekend, hopefully. IMO all the situations above still violate one or more of the 3 basic causes for malfunction (poor packing, poor maintenance, poor body position) and I might add poor design but without know all the facts (equipment, type of jump, etc.), I won't further comment. Just my thoughts..... Tim T. Team Paraclete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #11 May 26, 2004 Quoteand I might add poor design but without know all the facts (equipment, type of jump, etc.), I won't further comment. Just my thoughts..... You made the first calls without all the facts. The one was a broken reserve loop after the main was open for some time, hardly the jumpers fault. One was a problem with the a canopy with only 80 jumps, has been returned to the manufacture. The lost pud was a good call by the jumper. imo SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #12 May 26, 2004 What is the deal with military packers over there? In Oz, army riggers have to be volunteers for parachuting too.... In the USAF you do not have to be jump qualified to be a parachute rigger. It sound stupid to me also. Tim T. Team Paraclete >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Parachute riggers in the Canadian Army have to be jump qualified, Canadian Air Force riggers are not. Something about the difference in cost .... It only costs a few thousand dollars to warm up a C-130 jump plane, but a few million to fire an ejection seat. Oh, and the last time Canadian Air Force Search and Rescue Technicians came to play at our civilian DZ, they brought their Army rigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #11 May 26, 2004 Quoteand I might add poor design but without know all the facts (equipment, type of jump, etc.), I won't further comment. Just my thoughts..... You made the first calls without all the facts. The one was a broken reserve loop after the main was open for some time, hardly the jumpers fault. One was a problem with the a canopy with only 80 jumps, has been returned to the manufacture. The lost pud was a good call by the jumper. imo SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #12 May 26, 2004 What is the deal with military packers over there? In Oz, army riggers have to be volunteers for parachuting too.... In the USAF you do not have to be jump qualified to be a parachute rigger. It sound stupid to me also. Tim T. Team Paraclete >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Parachute riggers in the Canadian Army have to be jump qualified, Canadian Air Force riggers are not. Something about the difference in cost .... It only costs a few thousand dollars to warm up a C-130 jump plane, but a few million to fire an ejection seat. Oh, and the last time Canadian Air Force Search and Rescue Technicians came to play at our civilian DZ, they brought their Army rigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheBachelor 5 #13 May 26, 2004 Quote One was a broken reserve loop,one was lost pud at hard deck, one was broken lines and am not sure what the last one was. The first three were not related to packing of the main. Sparky The last one was a line over and the jumper was using a packer. The packer was more bothered by it than the jumper.There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #14 May 26, 2004 QuoteQuoteand I might add poor design but without know all the facts (equipment, type of jump, etc.), I won't further comment. Just my thoughts..... You made the first calls without all the facts. The one was a broken reserve loop after the main was open for some time, hardly the jumpers fault. One was a problem with the a canopy with only 80 jumps, has been returned to the manufacture. The lost pud was a good call by the jumper. imo Sparky Mark, Don't put words in my mouth. I stated that 4 reserve rides in 1600 seemed high and that the malfunctions all seem attributable to the 3 (or 4 - design) basic causes. Here's my thought process: Broken Reserve Loop - Maintenance Problem w/ canopy - Design Floating pud - Packing? Design? Maintenance? Line Over - Packing I said I wouldn't hazard a guess on attributing to design without knowing all the facts - as they pertain to design. The rest is easy to surmise. Tim T. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #15 May 26, 2004 My name is not MarkMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #16 May 26, 2004 QuoteMy name is not Mark Sorry, Mike Tim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #17 May 26, 2004 QuoteQuoteMy name is not Mark Sorry, Mike Tim Are you calling me sorry?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #18 May 27, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteMy name is not Mark Sorry, Mike Tim Are you calling me sorry? I would never call anyone with a 4 digit D license number "Sorry" when I have a zip code. Tim T. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #19 May 27, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteMy name is not Mark Sorry, Mike Tim Are you calling me sorry? I would never call anyone with a 4 digit D license number "Sorry" when I have a zip code. Tim T. My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites