labrys 0 #151 October 8, 2005 QuoteIt's a minor nit about an ad, an ad from a company that's done a lot of very good things for the sport. Bill Booth agrees with the nit and will add a disclaimer. Numbskulls saved; case closed. As the original source of the "nit" I'd like to add that I agree with this comment 100%Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #152 October 8, 2005 QuoteNumbskulls saved; case closed. Out of disappointment and frustration numbskulls return to high load canopies!Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #153 October 9, 2005 Exactly. If some numbskull is going to get killed by misenterpreting an advertisement, there is a very good chance that once corrected, they will find another dumbass way to get killed. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Witelli 0 #154 October 9, 2005 QuoteYour Skyhook will not forgive a disconnected shackle any more than a standard RSL will. Well then, whose fault is that. Did Skyhook unhook the shackle? Did you check the shackle? Either way, you'd better know how to deal with it if it doesn't work. I suggest you talk to your instructors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #155 October 9, 2005 Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #156 October 9, 2005 Most "accidental" shackle releases I have heard of were on the "old" brass shackles with weak springs. The stainless shackles we have been using for years have stronger springs, and are far more secure...plus we check every shackle for spring tension and pin length, before it goes on a Skyhook lanyard. The chance of one of our shackles accidently releasing is way less than a main canopy malfunction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sd-slider 0 #157 October 9, 2005 QuoteThe ad also upset me, particularly the scale indicating deployment within 100 ft. Is there ANYONE here who would use a skyhook equiped rig to cut away from a mal at 100 ft? Look @ the scale again....it's deployment time in feet....NOT AGL #'sAnvil Brother #69 Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk... Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #158 October 10, 2005 >Look @ the scale again....it's deployment time in feet....NOT AGL #'s Deployment distance (in feet) sets the minimum altitude AGL you can cut away and live to tell about it. It does NOT, of course, mean that cutting away at that altitude is a good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Witelli 0 #159 October 10, 2005 I'm totally agreeing with you. I'm just trying to put some responsibility on the skydiver as well for their own safety. Either way, thanks for your innovations, it could only mean great things for the sport. I really hope the skyhook catches on and becomes something revolutionally. Only time will tell. Thank you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #160 October 10, 2005 There is no difference between deployment altitude in feet and deployment altitude in feet AGL. Thanks for making my point. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #161 October 10, 2005 QuoteI used to sleep with someone who let the RSL deploy his reserve when he had his second cutaway - said he wanted to see if it worked or not. I was an instructor then, and I did ream his ass. Was he low? Then he made a terrible decision. Ream away. Was he high enough to pull the handle in the event the RSL failed? Then what is the issue? What would someone consider a minimum altitude for pulling the reserve if they took an intentional delay? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Witelli 0 #162 October 10, 2005 QuoteThere is no difference between deployment altitude in feet and deployment altitude in feet AGL. Thanks for making my point. You're right, 100 ft. is 100 ft. But the way I took slider's post was that the ad was in no way shape or form saying it was safe to deploy at 100 ft AGL. In fact, there's no picture of the ground in the ad, so we can't assume that the ad is suggesting any altitude AGL. All it's saying is that you should be under a canopy within 100ft. of cutting away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #163 October 11, 2005 QuoteAll it's saying is that you should be under a canopy within 100ft. of cutting away. How is that different from saying it's OK to cut away at 101 ft and to "smile" while you do it? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #164 October 11, 2005 QuoteThe ad also upset me, particularly the scale indicating deployment within 100 ft. Is there ANYONE here who would use a skyhook equiped rig to cut away from a mal at 100 ft? I hope it's packed slider down if they expect a 100ft deployment. Tough to find a rigger willing to sign and seal a slider down reserve pack job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #165 October 11, 2005 QuoteNear the end of the RWS Skyhook promo video, there's a scene showing two BASE jumpers chopping perfectly good canopies at 100ft. One has time to flare; the other doesn't. IIRC the reserves were packed slider down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #166 October 11, 2005 QuoteMan, I hope you never decide to teach with an attitude like that. There is nothing natural, instinctive or obvious about skydiving. Everything must be learned. Students have to take in multiple sources of information and they often get conflicting advice. Hopefully, we can teach them what are the reliable sources of information, and the unreliable ones. Instructors are reliable, manufacturers are reliable, so are official publications (USPA, et al). Advertising is unreliable. Drinking Budweiser won't get you a room full of hot chicks, eating Wheaties won't win you a gold medal, and pulling your cutaway handle won't always put a reserve over your head. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #167 October 11, 2005 Quote Drinking Budweiser won't get you a room full of hot chicks Don't believe this... beer is good... girls like men that drink beer... they wouldn't show it on TV if it wasn't true! I just haven't figured out why the guys on the ads don't have big beer guts like me... They don't have any disclaimers on the beer ads calling into the question the efficacy of beer to attract girls, so I don't think that every skydiving ad needs a disclaimer "Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #168 October 11, 2005 Actually, I have been trying to come up with a "disclaimer" for the Skyhook cartoon ad, but everything I write sounds stupid (No, you can't quote me on that.). Any ideas? Just to stir up the pot a little...Why does everyone call RSL's back-up devices? On a rig with an RSL (Skyhook or not, but especially on RWS rigs, where the reserve ripcord pin is permanently attached to the RSL lanyard, NOT to the ripcord cable) the RSL is the PRIMARY system, which pulls the pin after a breakaway from a partial malfunction. It is the reserve ripcord that is the back-up device, because you don't have to pull it unless the RSL fails. If you believe that back-up systems can't be trusted, then you can't trust your reserve ripcord. If you can't trust your reserve ripcord, then you shouldn't be jumping. PS: Seriously, when you think of, or practice, breakaway procedures on an RSL equipped rig, you should always include a reserve ripcord pull, even though in the vast majority of cases, you won't get the chance. Of course, in a total malfunction, the reserve ripcord is primary, because the RSL does nothing...unless you pull on it yourself, in which case the RSL COULD be considered a back-up device for the reserve ripcord. (Wait a minute, now even I'm confused.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCARYPERRY 0 #169 October 11, 2005 just took my slider off my reserve for bridge day!! No rigger involved and after choppen over the river, will let a rigger put it pack and sign card, lets see what happens at b day!!Flame on, but I bet my life on this deployment system and so far there is nothing in my mind that can shave those precious feet as effectivlyOnly he can be happy,who can make his the present hour,for today he has lived Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #170 October 11, 2005 I consider it a "backup" because it is a backup to me not performing my procedures correctly or fast enough. Not that I"m really concerned about this (I dont jump RSL anymore, until I get my new Vector III w/ skyhook that was ordered this week anyway ) Both of my chops, I had the reserve D-Ring in my hand (or thrown) before I felt the reserve, both of those jumps had a RSL... It was infact a backup. One that I didnt need. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #171 October 11, 2005 >Flame on, but I bet my life on this deployment system . . . You do have free toggles on that reserve now, right? And a tailgate might be a good idea for such a jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #172 October 11, 2005 QuoteBoth of my chops, I had the reserve D-Ring in my hand (or thrown) before I felt the reserve, both of those jumps had a RSL... It was infact a backup. One that I didnt need. If you beat your RSL, your EP's were probably out of sequence. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 42 #173 October 11, 2005 Here's one idea... "Skydiving is DANGEROUS. Please don’t die without having pulled all the handles. Never stop trying to save your own life, all the way to the ground.""Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #174 October 11, 2005 QuoteQuoteBoth of my chops, I had the reserve D-Ring in my hand (or thrown) before I felt the reserve, both of those jumps had a RSL... It was infact a backup. One that I didnt need. If you beat your RSL, your EP's were probably out of sequence. Blues, Dave Never said I beat it, but I had it pulled before I felt the reserve.. The pin was pulled before I got to it (as evident by the kicked cable that I pulled) .. Difference between beating it and having it pulled before feeling the reserve deploy. I used the two hand on one handle method for the first one and the one hand on each handle for the second.. Either way the RSL didnt really make a difference in my outcomes. Funny thing about the first one though is that I did delay a little bit, seems like it took a little time for the rsl deployed reserve to get out, but that may have been because I was spinning on my back. Considering that I consiously thought about turning back to belly before pulling silver, it's all a blur on that one I guess That handle was lost, so no kick to look at. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #175 October 11, 2005 Quote>Flame on, but I bet my life on this deployment system . . . You do have free toggles on that reserve now, right? And a tailgate might be a good idea for such a jump. There's no loop for the line release. He'll have to chance it. Use Masking tape in place of the Tail gate. a couple wraps around the C,D and Brake lines is fine. When making the pack job skinny before s folding it, fold it up over the tail rather than towards the nose. Make sense without pictures? Have funMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
