Jackpunx 0 #1 October 28, 2005 I just finished AFF..and they teach us to have a decision altitude at 2500 at what point did that go away for you? if you pull at 3k or less.. and it takes about 1k to inflate a chute.. I understand as you get more experience you may push the envalope a little.. also depending on the spot.. I pull at 4k right now.. I am under canopy by 3 k and able to do a Crrontrolabilty check.. Im sure things will change for me.. just wondering what changed for you? when it happend? and why. thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #2 October 28, 2005 I reach back to pull at about 3.5 I jump a 230 Spectre, and I am open, stowed/unstowed everything by 2300 ish. I my hard deck is 1800. If I cant land what I have I go for it then. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nitrox100 0 #3 October 29, 2005 What are you jumping that would take 1000 feet to open? I jump a snively Velocity and dump at 2,500 and am in the saddle every time at 1,900. The time I had a high speed mal I was actually in the saddle higher than I would have been had I rode a normal snively main. With enough jumps you can feel a mal almost the second it comes off your back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB38 0 #4 October 29, 2005 Most likely the idea that a canopy takes 1,000 feet to open comes from the length of pull time. When I was in early AFF, pull altitude was 5,000. That meant at 5,000, I would wave off, check to make sure my airspace was clear and pull. The PC wouldn't really leave my hand until [estimated] 4,300. By the time I was in the saddle, I'd be a touch over 4,000. At first, I thought that the canopy took forever to open, but I later clued in that freefall doesn't stop at 5,000 feet. So for listing pull altitudes, it would probably be best to note if the altitude is the time of the wave off, the time of the PC leaving one's hand or the container opening altitude.I really don't know what I'm talking about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #5 October 29, 2005 QuoteWhat are you jumping that would take 1000 feet to open? reply] I wave off at 4k and probably pull around 36-38 and am under canopy at 3k. Im jumping a 230 srectre Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #6 October 29, 2005 QuoteMost likely the idea that a canopy takes 1,000 feet to open comes from the length of pull time. When I was in early AFF, pull altitude was 5,000. That meant at 5,000, I would wave off, check to make sure my airspace was clear and pull. The PC wouldn't really leave my hand until [estimated] 4,300. By the time I was in the saddle, I'd be a touch over 4,000. At first, I thought that the canopy took forever to open, but I later clued in that freefall doesn't stop at 5,000 feet. So for listing pull altitudes, it would probably be best to note if the altitude is the time of the wave off, the time of the PC leaving one's hand or the container opening altitude. after I read some the replies ... your exactly right.. so.. what is the wave off for most of you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ladyskydiver 0 #7 October 29, 2005 Depends on the type of jump. Most jumps, I'm waving off and deploying at 3K. However, on big ways, I'll take it down to 2K.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #8 October 29, 2005 anyway, no one is really answering the question yet. first off, you don't have to lower your pull height. Altitude is time. I've heard that Bill, the owner at Lodi (with ~30,000 jumps) always pulls at 4. It won't work at every boogie - WFFC wants people in the saddle no higher than 3. And you may not find everyone keen to jump with you if the breakoff is higher than 4.5 or 5. I'm still throwing at 3.5. Having recently had a minor mal where I debating cutting away until altitude made the call for me (keeping it and landing a little hard), I'm not in a hurry to shorten that time further. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jsaxton 0 #9 October 29, 2005 When you have your first high speed mal how much altitude would you want? Think about it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #10 October 29, 2005 Quoteanyway, no one is really answering the question yet. first off, you don't have to lower your pull height. Altitude is time. I've heard that Bill, the owner at Lodi (with ~30,000 jumps) always pulls at 4. It won't work at every boogie - WFFC wants people in the saddle no higher than 3. And you may not find everyone keen to jump with you if the breakoff is higher than 4.5 or 5. I'm still throwing at 3.5. Having recently had a minor mal where I debating cutting away until altitude made the call for me (keeping it and landing a little hard), I'm not in a hurry to shorten that time further. I guess nobody here went through aff where the decision alt is 2500" lol I only wanted to know what happened and when did you decide that you didnt really need 2500" anymore.. Is just because other people did it.. so you did it too? is it because its not safe to pull so high? is it because you need the extra 6seconds of freefall? Just curious.. Ive seen people with lots of jumps say they pull at 3500 to 4k.. and Ive seen people with low jump numbers.. that pull at 2500.. Personaly Im comfortable waving off at 4 and pulling when my airspace is clear.. I was just wondering if you all had a secret that you werent telling me...lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #11 October 29, 2005 QuoteWhen you have your first high speed mal how much altitude would you want? Think about it Im not sure.. thats why Im asking you guys what you do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jsaxton 0 #12 October 29, 2005 Quote Well you for sure want enough time to 1) recognise the mal, 2) execute EP's without scaring your cypres 3) try to locate your shit 4) have enough time (altitude) to land safely. Remember a high speed mal will stand you up, so you will be going a LOT faster than normal ;) QuoteWhen you have your first high speed mal how much altitude would you want? Think about it Im not sure.. thats why Im asking you guys what you do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jsaxton 0 #13 October 29, 2005 Quote The more experiance, the lower you pull, until you get enough experiance that you want toi pull higher ;) Quoteanyway, no one is really answering the question yet. first off, you don't have to lower your pull height. Altitude is time. I've heard that Bill, the owner at Lodi (with ~30,000 jumps) always pulls at 4. It won't work at every boogie - WFFC wants people in the saddle no higher than 3. And you may not find everyone keen to jump with you if the breakoff is higher than 4.5 or 5. I'm still throwing at 3.5. Having recently had a minor mal where I debating cutting away until altitude made the call for me (keeping it and landing a little hard), I'm not in a hurry to shorten that time further. I guess nobody here went through aff where the decision alt is 2500" lol I only wanted to know what happened and when did you decide that you didnt really need 2500" anymore.. Is just because other people did it.. so you did it too? is it because its not safe to pull so high? is it because you need the extra 6seconds of freefall? Just curious.. Ive seen people with lots of jumps say they pull at 3500 to 4k.. and Ive seen people with low jump numbers.. that pull at 2500.. Personaly Im comfortable waving off at 4 and pulling when my airspace is clear.. I was just wondering if you all had a secret that you werent telling me...lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #14 October 29, 2005 QuoteQuote Well you for sure want enough time to 1) recognise the mal, 2) execute EP's without scaring your cypres 3) try to locate your shit 4) have enough time (altitude) to land safely. Remember a high speed mal will stand you up, so you will be going a LOT faster than normal ;) QuoteWhen you have your first high speed mal how much altitude would you want? Think about it Im not sure.. thats why Im asking you guys what you do I know that my pull alt is 35-3800'.. thats because I want to be under canopy by 3k and if I dont like my canopy at 3k.. I'll be under a new one by 2k.. what are your numbers and why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jsaxton 0 #15 October 29, 2005 I throw out at 3500-3000 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #16 October 29, 2005 QuoteQuote The more experiance, the lower you pull, until you get enough experiance that you want toi pull higher ;) [] now thats a fair statement Im sure you guys get a newbe that askes the same question every couple months.. Im not trying to cause trouble.. just wondering thanks for taking the time to replyI'll be in the air tomorrow... I got some RW jumps to do so I can close in on getting my A with in a couple weeks.. cant waitI talked to an organizer and I want to start jumping with other people.. the reason for my questions is just to try to understand the unwritten rules and ediquite (sp?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HydroGuy 0 #17 October 29, 2005 I started pulling lower for one reason...I started jumping with other people. If you are initiating your deployment procedures at anything higher than 3000 to 3500, you need to be getting out of the plane last...which means you'll probably be solo. Solos get boring after a while.Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #18 October 29, 2005 Remember a high speed mal will stand you up, so you will be going a LOT faster than normal ;) Not really. If it's standing you up there's usually a pilot chute and some kind of ball of crap over your head and it's probably slowed you down to ninety or the high eighties mph. I once cutaway from a streamer mal and felt the "drop" effect when my 3 ring separated. That cutaway was in the old days too (1980) when pull altitudes of 2000 - 2500 ft were the norm. Back then I used to pull "high" at 2800 - 3000 ft and was usually sitting under canopy by 2500 ft. On this streamer cutaway I was under an open reserve slightly above 1500 ft, which should be decent even nowadays, especially with square reserves (I had a round reserve back then). There's been a cultural change in pull altitudes from the old days. Back then we had canopies that opened quicker - and harder. And we all started out with static line from about 2500 ft, moving up through freefall in small increments from hop 'n pops at 3200 ft, 10 sec. delays at 3500 ft & so on. Most of today's jumpers progessed through freefall programs like AFF, where they started with high leaps from 12,500 and made their first pulls at 5 grand. In my opinion, it was easier for us to work our way UP in the old days than it seems for modern day students to work their way DOWN from a pull at 5 grand. On plenty of loads we've talked to so many kids making their hop & pop for their A License who are just a nervous wreck about having to leave the plane below 5 grand. We just try to reassure them that it's safe and FUN and they'll ENJOY it. I almost wish I could offer to go with them and say "just follow me", but I'm already committed to something else with my friends at 12.5. It's because we started with pulling at 2500 ft. Which is a bit low for today's students with slower opening canopies, but 3000 - 3500 ft should seem reasonable. And it's true that high speed malfunctions eat up altitude at an unbelievable rate, but the extra altitude will do you no good if you just use it to stare at the thing. You've got two handles, so find 'em and pull 'em. That's all it really takes and pulling two handles can be done with amazing speed if you're scared. And if you've got a RSL - which you SHOULD have at low experience levels, the fix will happen even faster (but you still gotta pull both those handles, even if the silver is an "empty" pull). Pulling higher than the old days is generally a good thing and I like it. But it's important to learn to at least feel confident with 3 grand and that should be a goal - work your way down to confident with 3 grand. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #19 October 30, 2005 For me, after AFF, I started working my opening point down to 3500. I kept it at 3500 for about a year and about 75 jumps. Then I started going to boogies, where many of them want you to open no higher than 3,000. So I started working my pull altitude down to 3,000. That's where many experienced jumpers in the US pull, and you could probably go the rest of your life pulling at 3. I have been pulling at 3 for the last few years now, even doing coach jumps. I will very likely lower my "acceptable" pull altitude when I start AFF Instruction, but that's for different reasons, and will be done over a long period of time, with some changes to my gear and procedures. Even then, I will still consider 3K to be my "normal" opening altitude, with 2K being the absolute bottom.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jsaxton 0 #20 October 30, 2005 QuoteTry a bag lock Not really. If it's standing you up there's usually a pilot chute and some kind of ball of crap over your head and it's probably slowed you down to ninety or the high eighties mph. I once cutaway from a streamer mal and felt the "drop" effect when my 3 ring separated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #21 October 30, 2005 After 4-way jumps, I usually pitch just above 3000ft. On my Spectre, that puts me in the saddle around 2500ft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dustin19d 0 #22 October 30, 2005 Nothing changed for me. It doesn't matter what kind of jump im doing. I always throw my PC before 3,200 even though I don't have to throw it until 2,000. I jump a Pilot 150 and if I throw at 3,200 I'll be fully open, slider stowed, chest strap open, and booties off before 2,000. If theres a mal durring any one of thoes stages I'll respond acordingly. Don't assume that jump numbers entitle you to open lower or decide lower? Its something that comes with experience and currency. Honestly this is a complicated subject. There are so many variables that can arise during pull time. Concentrate on spoting, canopy controll, Alt awareness and just overall being safe inside and outside the aircraft. And since you asked I didn't even realize when it changed for me. I concentrated on all the other things I needed too. And as some of thoes tasks became muscle memory I felf more comfortable going slightly lower. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites G5fh84 0 #23 October 31, 2005 My ditter goes off the first time at 4500 to say "wrap it up soon" then it goes off at 4000 to say "turn and track hard" then it goes solid tone to say "ok slowdown and pull" I wave off at about 3300 and log my in the saddle alt. every time just to keep track if theres ever a change. I'm in the saddle 2600-2800 every time. If I find someone tracking next to me I'll hold my track for another 3 seconds but that's only happened very few times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #24 October 31, 2005 All great posts.. thanks for taking the time.. Im not in any rush to go beyond my comfort level ..but I can see my comfort level changing as time goes by.. as for now....I should have my A next week or so and was invited by the load organizer to join them.. Im excited about that and as Im a beginner im sure they will accomodate me until im comfortable.. after the few RW coach jumps I did yesterday.. Break off about 5 .. wave off and clear airspace around 4.. pull about 35-3700.. it all made sense.. I never felt like I was pushing the envalope.. I got a hop and pop, a packing class and my last final jump.. and Im on my own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,439 #25 October 31, 2005 Once you learn how your canopy opens, you'll begin to learn when it's not feeling right as it opens. Mine opens quickly (I'm also from those low-opening, hard-opening 80's, and I got used to it), so I'm quite comfortable throwing out lower than 2500 (that's initiating pack opening -- NOT turning). But when you have enough room in your head after the jump to think about how your canopy feels as it opens as a second-nature kind of thing, then you can start compressing your opening sequence (which is really what opening lower is). But wait until there's some room in your head. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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Jackpunx 0 #6 October 29, 2005 QuoteMost likely the idea that a canopy takes 1,000 feet to open comes from the length of pull time. When I was in early AFF, pull altitude was 5,000. That meant at 5,000, I would wave off, check to make sure my airspace was clear and pull. The PC wouldn't really leave my hand until [estimated] 4,300. By the time I was in the saddle, I'd be a touch over 4,000. At first, I thought that the canopy took forever to open, but I later clued in that freefall doesn't stop at 5,000 feet. So for listing pull altitudes, it would probably be best to note if the altitude is the time of the wave off, the time of the PC leaving one's hand or the container opening altitude. after I read some the replies ... your exactly right.. so.. what is the wave off for most of you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #7 October 29, 2005 Depends on the type of jump. Most jumps, I'm waving off and deploying at 3K. However, on big ways, I'll take it down to 2K.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #8 October 29, 2005 anyway, no one is really answering the question yet. first off, you don't have to lower your pull height. Altitude is time. I've heard that Bill, the owner at Lodi (with ~30,000 jumps) always pulls at 4. It won't work at every boogie - WFFC wants people in the saddle no higher than 3. And you may not find everyone keen to jump with you if the breakoff is higher than 4.5 or 5. I'm still throwing at 3.5. Having recently had a minor mal where I debating cutting away until altitude made the call for me (keeping it and landing a little hard), I'm not in a hurry to shorten that time further. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #9 October 29, 2005 When you have your first high speed mal how much altitude would you want? Think about it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #10 October 29, 2005 Quoteanyway, no one is really answering the question yet. first off, you don't have to lower your pull height. Altitude is time. I've heard that Bill, the owner at Lodi (with ~30,000 jumps) always pulls at 4. It won't work at every boogie - WFFC wants people in the saddle no higher than 3. And you may not find everyone keen to jump with you if the breakoff is higher than 4.5 or 5. I'm still throwing at 3.5. Having recently had a minor mal where I debating cutting away until altitude made the call for me (keeping it and landing a little hard), I'm not in a hurry to shorten that time further. I guess nobody here went through aff where the decision alt is 2500" lol I only wanted to know what happened and when did you decide that you didnt really need 2500" anymore.. Is just because other people did it.. so you did it too? is it because its not safe to pull so high? is it because you need the extra 6seconds of freefall? Just curious.. Ive seen people with lots of jumps say they pull at 3500 to 4k.. and Ive seen people with low jump numbers.. that pull at 2500.. Personaly Im comfortable waving off at 4 and pulling when my airspace is clear.. I was just wondering if you all had a secret that you werent telling me...lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #11 October 29, 2005 QuoteWhen you have your first high speed mal how much altitude would you want? Think about it Im not sure.. thats why Im asking you guys what you do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #12 October 29, 2005 Quote Well you for sure want enough time to 1) recognise the mal, 2) execute EP's without scaring your cypres 3) try to locate your shit 4) have enough time (altitude) to land safely. Remember a high speed mal will stand you up, so you will be going a LOT faster than normal ;) QuoteWhen you have your first high speed mal how much altitude would you want? Think about it Im not sure.. thats why Im asking you guys what you do Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #13 October 29, 2005 Quote The more experiance, the lower you pull, until you get enough experiance that you want toi pull higher ;) Quoteanyway, no one is really answering the question yet. first off, you don't have to lower your pull height. Altitude is time. I've heard that Bill, the owner at Lodi (with ~30,000 jumps) always pulls at 4. It won't work at every boogie - WFFC wants people in the saddle no higher than 3. And you may not find everyone keen to jump with you if the breakoff is higher than 4.5 or 5. I'm still throwing at 3.5. Having recently had a minor mal where I debating cutting away until altitude made the call for me (keeping it and landing a little hard), I'm not in a hurry to shorten that time further. I guess nobody here went through aff where the decision alt is 2500" lol I only wanted to know what happened and when did you decide that you didnt really need 2500" anymore.. Is just because other people did it.. so you did it too? is it because its not safe to pull so high? is it because you need the extra 6seconds of freefall? Just curious.. Ive seen people with lots of jumps say they pull at 3500 to 4k.. and Ive seen people with low jump numbers.. that pull at 2500.. Personaly Im comfortable waving off at 4 and pulling when my airspace is clear.. I was just wondering if you all had a secret that you werent telling me...lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #14 October 29, 2005 QuoteQuote Well you for sure want enough time to 1) recognise the mal, 2) execute EP's without scaring your cypres 3) try to locate your shit 4) have enough time (altitude) to land safely. Remember a high speed mal will stand you up, so you will be going a LOT faster than normal ;) QuoteWhen you have your first high speed mal how much altitude would you want? Think about it Im not sure.. thats why Im asking you guys what you do I know that my pull alt is 35-3800'.. thats because I want to be under canopy by 3k and if I dont like my canopy at 3k.. I'll be under a new one by 2k.. what are your numbers and why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #15 October 29, 2005 I throw out at 3500-3000 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #16 October 29, 2005 QuoteQuote The more experiance, the lower you pull, until you get enough experiance that you want toi pull higher ;) [] now thats a fair statement Im sure you guys get a newbe that askes the same question every couple months.. Im not trying to cause trouble.. just wondering thanks for taking the time to replyI'll be in the air tomorrow... I got some RW jumps to do so I can close in on getting my A with in a couple weeks.. cant waitI talked to an organizer and I want to start jumping with other people.. the reason for my questions is just to try to understand the unwritten rules and ediquite (sp?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HydroGuy 0 #17 October 29, 2005 I started pulling lower for one reason...I started jumping with other people. If you are initiating your deployment procedures at anything higher than 3000 to 3500, you need to be getting out of the plane last...which means you'll probably be solo. Solos get boring after a while.Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #18 October 29, 2005 Remember a high speed mal will stand you up, so you will be going a LOT faster than normal ;) Not really. If it's standing you up there's usually a pilot chute and some kind of ball of crap over your head and it's probably slowed you down to ninety or the high eighties mph. I once cutaway from a streamer mal and felt the "drop" effect when my 3 ring separated. That cutaway was in the old days too (1980) when pull altitudes of 2000 - 2500 ft were the norm. Back then I used to pull "high" at 2800 - 3000 ft and was usually sitting under canopy by 2500 ft. On this streamer cutaway I was under an open reserve slightly above 1500 ft, which should be decent even nowadays, especially with square reserves (I had a round reserve back then). There's been a cultural change in pull altitudes from the old days. Back then we had canopies that opened quicker - and harder. And we all started out with static line from about 2500 ft, moving up through freefall in small increments from hop 'n pops at 3200 ft, 10 sec. delays at 3500 ft & so on. Most of today's jumpers progessed through freefall programs like AFF, where they started with high leaps from 12,500 and made their first pulls at 5 grand. In my opinion, it was easier for us to work our way UP in the old days than it seems for modern day students to work their way DOWN from a pull at 5 grand. On plenty of loads we've talked to so many kids making their hop & pop for their A License who are just a nervous wreck about having to leave the plane below 5 grand. We just try to reassure them that it's safe and FUN and they'll ENJOY it. I almost wish I could offer to go with them and say "just follow me", but I'm already committed to something else with my friends at 12.5. It's because we started with pulling at 2500 ft. Which is a bit low for today's students with slower opening canopies, but 3000 - 3500 ft should seem reasonable. And it's true that high speed malfunctions eat up altitude at an unbelievable rate, but the extra altitude will do you no good if you just use it to stare at the thing. You've got two handles, so find 'em and pull 'em. That's all it really takes and pulling two handles can be done with amazing speed if you're scared. And if you've got a RSL - which you SHOULD have at low experience levels, the fix will happen even faster (but you still gotta pull both those handles, even if the silver is an "empty" pull). Pulling higher than the old days is generally a good thing and I like it. But it's important to learn to at least feel confident with 3 grand and that should be a goal - work your way down to confident with 3 grand. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #17 October 29, 2005 I started pulling lower for one reason...I started jumping with other people. If you are initiating your deployment procedures at anything higher than 3000 to 3500, you need to be getting out of the plane last...which means you'll probably be solo. Solos get boring after a while.Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #18 October 29, 2005 Remember a high speed mal will stand you up, so you will be going a LOT faster than normal ;) Not really. If it's standing you up there's usually a pilot chute and some kind of ball of crap over your head and it's probably slowed you down to ninety or the high eighties mph. I once cutaway from a streamer mal and felt the "drop" effect when my 3 ring separated. That cutaway was in the old days too (1980) when pull altitudes of 2000 - 2500 ft were the norm. Back then I used to pull "high" at 2800 - 3000 ft and was usually sitting under canopy by 2500 ft. On this streamer cutaway I was under an open reserve slightly above 1500 ft, which should be decent even nowadays, especially with square reserves (I had a round reserve back then). There's been a cultural change in pull altitudes from the old days. Back then we had canopies that opened quicker - and harder. And we all started out with static line from about 2500 ft, moving up through freefall in small increments from hop 'n pops at 3200 ft, 10 sec. delays at 3500 ft & so on. Most of today's jumpers progessed through freefall programs like AFF, where they started with high leaps from 12,500 and made their first pulls at 5 grand. In my opinion, it was easier for us to work our way UP in the old days than it seems for modern day students to work their way DOWN from a pull at 5 grand. On plenty of loads we've talked to so many kids making their hop & pop for their A License who are just a nervous wreck about having to leave the plane below 5 grand. We just try to reassure them that it's safe and FUN and they'll ENJOY it. I almost wish I could offer to go with them and say "just follow me", but I'm already committed to something else with my friends at 12.5. It's because we started with pulling at 2500 ft. Which is a bit low for today's students with slower opening canopies, but 3000 - 3500 ft should seem reasonable. And it's true that high speed malfunctions eat up altitude at an unbelievable rate, but the extra altitude will do you no good if you just use it to stare at the thing. You've got two handles, so find 'em and pull 'em. That's all it really takes and pulling two handles can be done with amazing speed if you're scared. And if you've got a RSL - which you SHOULD have at low experience levels, the fix will happen even faster (but you still gotta pull both those handles, even if the silver is an "empty" pull). Pulling higher than the old days is generally a good thing and I like it. But it's important to learn to at least feel confident with 3 grand and that should be a goal - work your way down to confident with 3 grand. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #19 October 30, 2005 For me, after AFF, I started working my opening point down to 3500. I kept it at 3500 for about a year and about 75 jumps. Then I started going to boogies, where many of them want you to open no higher than 3,000. So I started working my pull altitude down to 3,000. That's where many experienced jumpers in the US pull, and you could probably go the rest of your life pulling at 3. I have been pulling at 3 for the last few years now, even doing coach jumps. I will very likely lower my "acceptable" pull altitude when I start AFF Instruction, but that's for different reasons, and will be done over a long period of time, with some changes to my gear and procedures. Even then, I will still consider 3K to be my "normal" opening altitude, with 2K being the absolute bottom.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #20 October 30, 2005 QuoteTry a bag lock Not really. If it's standing you up there's usually a pilot chute and some kind of ball of crap over your head and it's probably slowed you down to ninety or the high eighties mph. I once cutaway from a streamer mal and felt the "drop" effect when my 3 ring separated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #21 October 30, 2005 After 4-way jumps, I usually pitch just above 3000ft. On my Spectre, that puts me in the saddle around 2500ft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dustin19d 0 #22 October 30, 2005 Nothing changed for me. It doesn't matter what kind of jump im doing. I always throw my PC before 3,200 even though I don't have to throw it until 2,000. I jump a Pilot 150 and if I throw at 3,200 I'll be fully open, slider stowed, chest strap open, and booties off before 2,000. If theres a mal durring any one of thoes stages I'll respond acordingly. Don't assume that jump numbers entitle you to open lower or decide lower? Its something that comes with experience and currency. Honestly this is a complicated subject. There are so many variables that can arise during pull time. Concentrate on spoting, canopy controll, Alt awareness and just overall being safe inside and outside the aircraft. And since you asked I didn't even realize when it changed for me. I concentrated on all the other things I needed too. And as some of thoes tasks became muscle memory I felf more comfortable going slightly lower. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
G5fh84 0 #23 October 31, 2005 My ditter goes off the first time at 4500 to say "wrap it up soon" then it goes off at 4000 to say "turn and track hard" then it goes solid tone to say "ok slowdown and pull" I wave off at about 3300 and log my in the saddle alt. every time just to keep track if theres ever a change. I'm in the saddle 2600-2800 every time. If I find someone tracking next to me I'll hold my track for another 3 seconds but that's only happened very few times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #24 October 31, 2005 All great posts.. thanks for taking the time.. Im not in any rush to go beyond my comfort level ..but I can see my comfort level changing as time goes by.. as for now....I should have my A next week or so and was invited by the load organizer to join them.. Im excited about that and as Im a beginner im sure they will accomodate me until im comfortable.. after the few RW coach jumps I did yesterday.. Break off about 5 .. wave off and clear airspace around 4.. pull about 35-3700.. it all made sense.. I never felt like I was pushing the envalope.. I got a hop and pop, a packing class and my last final jump.. and Im on my own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,439 #25 October 31, 2005 Once you learn how your canopy opens, you'll begin to learn when it's not feeling right as it opens. Mine opens quickly (I'm also from those low-opening, hard-opening 80's, and I got used to it), so I'm quite comfortable throwing out lower than 2500 (that's initiating pack opening -- NOT turning). But when you have enough room in your head after the jump to think about how your canopy feels as it opens as a second-nature kind of thing, then you can start compressing your opening sequence (which is really what opening lower is). But wait until there's some room in your head. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
wmw999 2,439 #25 October 31, 2005 Once you learn how your canopy opens, you'll begin to learn when it's not feeling right as it opens. Mine opens quickly (I'm also from those low-opening, hard-opening 80's, and I got used to it), so I'm quite comfortable throwing out lower than 2500 (that's initiating pack opening -- NOT turning). But when you have enough room in your head after the jump to think about how your canopy feels as it opens as a second-nature kind of thing, then you can start compressing your opening sequence (which is really what opening lower is). But wait until there's some room in your head. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
