billvon 3,075 #101 October 13, 2005 >I downloaded and watched the video and thats the kind of crap >that makes skydiving look bad. No, fatalities due to stupid shit are what makes skydiving look bad. A whuffo watching this video would have no idea what he's watching. A tandem master might - which is where its value lies. Rick Horn has a 'stupid student tricks' where students and JM's alike do some very stupid things. It's an invaluable learning tool, one that lets you realize what you _shouldn't_ do on an AFF. >Beyond that, if some new tandem master is reading this thread and > even having not seen the video learns to be cautious of who he or > she takes with them on a skydive, then A+ for effort. And if he sees the video and realizes how bad such a dive could have gone - even better. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video is surely worth a thousand posts telling him to 'be careful.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #102 October 13, 2005 I think the video serves a purpose in highlighting the danger of complacency. I dont doubt that all the instructors involved, at heart are basically good people. They got ratings of different sorts so it would be fair to assume they had/have some understanding of the inherent risks of thier actions, before the jump was made. The question (for learning purposes) for each of us to reflect on is how can a group of presumably knowledgable skydiving instructors all suffer a collective brain fart and allow that jump to occur. Good people do bad things sometimes. I still think they are all dangers to our sport for thier actions, and continue to be, I would not board an airplane with any of them on it, but then again, I am also not in their shoes, so perhaps if they can figure out how they all allowed that situation to occur, then maybe, just maybe, they will learn from it and share what they have learned with others, to prevent it from happening again. If I saw that in them, I would perhaps reconsider being in the air with them. It was a horrible video, but in the end it could prove to be a valuable learning tool. We will all find ourselves with the opportunity to be in thier shoes at some point, and its learning tools like this that may give the next person pause to reflect and say "No Thanks, maybe thats not such a good idea". -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #103 October 13, 2005 QuoteIt also doesn't give sitflyer a right to try and make some DZ look bad. sitflyer did not make a dz look bad. He left out any reference to a dz. You and ryand96 actually identify the dz. Here are two pics of the same area. One from the video and one from terra server (2000 B&W one). I think those two pics are of the same area, don't you? How long ago did this happen? Quote. Sure it happened and some people deserved to get punished for it, and if RWS saw it, which it seems they have, I am sure they did get punished. I think this might be still winding through USPA. It also seems that if I post a link to the video, I can find out who's video that was because I'd get an email from his attorney. I'd at least know who the POV photographer was. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #104 October 13, 2005 QuoteIt also seems that if I post a link to the video, I can find out who's video that was because I'd get an email from his attorney. I'd at least know who the POV photographer was. I only got to hear from a friend and the TM. I feel like I missed out! Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Breezejunky 0 #105 October 13, 2005 Lawyer? His fucking lawyer Holy shit! When I think of all the stupid stuff I've done that could've turned out bad if everything that isn't ever likely to go wrong does go wrong....... Well....I better smarten the fuck up quick or I'm going to be spending a fortune on lawyers! It must really work though, this lawsuit business. I mean, what could be better to kill that spur-of-the-moment-adrenaline-filled-urge to do something crazy that you thought would be fun for everyone, than having the word "Lawsuit" pop into your head? Then, when you get time later you can contemplate all possible consequences of such an action - get some other feedback, even (for those rare times when it's not obvious what stupid-head idea you had) and should everyone agree it's perfectly (and I mean perfectly) safe, you can always seize the moment the next time! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #106 October 13, 2005 I once had a DZO tell me everytime she heard one of our half baked idea's about waterballons, paintball guns etc in freefall/under canopy.. "I always imagine myself thinking backwards from the police report...." it doesnt take very long to see how many things are simply really bad ideas from that perspective.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #107 October 14, 2005 I also have a copy of a video with people doing stupid shit around a tandem. It is not labeled with a copyright, or an author, and to the best of my knowledge, it is public domain. Anyone who wants to see the video, let me know. Anyone who believes such distribution violates a copyright should send to me proof of ownership and copyright. Without proof, it will be assumed such claims of ownership are false. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #108 October 14, 2005 You got it the wrong way round. A video is not public domain just because somebody put it on the net, with or without copyright notice. YOU have to prove you've got permision to host it. Also, anyone can re-edit a video that DID have credits/copyright notices before too. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #109 October 14, 2005 QuoteYou got it the wrong way round. A video is not public domain just because somebody put it on the net, with or without copyright notice. YOU have to prove you've got permision to host it. True, and if an owner claims ownership, I will no longer assume public domain. Incidentally, if a videographer is working in the capacity of dropzone employee, by default, any copyright is owned by the drop zone, and not the videographer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #110 October 14, 2005 Oh, just thought I'd give you all an update since everyone's "enjoying" this video. The video is at least 2 years old. Someone must have "forgotten" to mention that.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #111 October 14, 2005 Quote Oh, just thought I'd give you all an update since everyone's "enjoying" Crazy this video. The video is at least 2 years old. Someone must have "forgotten" to mention that. What happened to the Instructors involved? Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tustinr 1 #112 October 14, 2005 I agree Derek. I have read the whole thread - no public name calling, no DZ mentioned. I don't believe that was the intention nor the purpose. Good on sitflyer who brought this video to the attention of the skydiving community (I had already watched it on skydiving movies). It certainly raises awareness and is thought provoking. Rich --------------------------------------- Everything that happens to you in life is your teacher. The secret is to learn to sit at the feet of your life and be taught. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sitflyer35 0 #113 October 14, 2005 ***Oh, just thought I'd give you all an update since everyone's "enjoying" this video. The video is at least 2 years old. Someone must have "forgotten" to mention that. The video was shot last summer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #114 October 14, 2005 QuoteWhat happened to the Instructors involved? I can find out for you and let you know.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tustinr 1 #115 October 15, 2005 No difference, one year or two, it still happened and is still shocking ! --------------------------------------- Everything that happens to you in life is your teacher. The secret is to learn to sit at the feet of your life and be taught. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigern13 0 #116 October 15, 2005 At the beginning of this thread, hooknswoop posted what seemed to me to be a quote from the tandem master involved in the incident. In that quote was the following; "...After the jump I worked with my local tandem examiner and submitted a full report to Relative Workshop. The two instructors who touched my drouge were spoken to and were disciplined for their actions. One tandem instructor no longer conducts tandems at our drop zone. The other instructor was suspended for the rest of the year and had to sit through the tandem instructor ground school before resuming tandem instruction...." "I love 'lamp'." -SKYMAMA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sitflyer35 0 #117 October 15, 2005 ***At the beginning of this thread, hooknswoop posted what seemed to me to be a quote from the tandem master involved in the incident. In that quote was the following; "...After the jump I worked with my local tandem examiner and submitted a full report to Relative Workshop. The two instructors who touched my drouge were spoken to and were disciplined for their actions. One tandem instructor no longer conducts tandems at our drop zone. The other instructor was suspended for the rest of the year and had to sit through the tandem instructor ground school before resuming tandem instruction...." Quote If you would have read all the posts you would have seen that the first jumper had to retake the cousre becouse he was caught forging his membership and instuctor renewels on his USPA documentation, and for forging signatures on an I/E application. The second jumper still conducts tandems at the DZ on occasion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ladyskydiver 0 #118 October 15, 2005 I agree that the video is still shocking and that people can learn from it - especially since it has been commented and noted in the thread earlier (as well as when I talked to a couple of the individuals yesterday) that Relative Workshop is using it as training material. However, we've all done stupid stuff at one time and have learned from it. As long as they have learned from it and do not repeat it again, I'll look at it as a hard learned lesson for them. My take on it is - they did something stupid, got spanked for it, and have learned their lesson. To continue beating a dead horse...well...says something about the person that is doing it. And, bigern13, you're right. The discipline that the individuals went through is mentioned in this thread earlier. "The two instructors who touched my drouge were spoken to and were disciplined for their actions. One tandem instructor no longer conducts tandems at our drop zone. The other instructor was suspended for the rest of the year and had to sit through the tandem instructor ground school before resuming tandem instruction." "There was extensive discussion with the local tandem examiner, the instructors involved, and with Relative Workshop. There was disciplinary action taken and I believe it was appropriate. Relative Workshop was notified and a report was filed. They are satisfied with the disciplinary action that was taken and consider the incident closed. They are using this video as an example of what not to do."Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ladyskydiver 0 #119 October 15, 2005 By the way, how are you?Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Safteyjest 0 #120 October 15, 2005 ***By the way, how are you? Now who is starting the name calling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #118 October 15, 2005 I agree that the video is still shocking and that people can learn from it - especially since it has been commented and noted in the thread earlier (as well as when I talked to a couple of the individuals yesterday) that Relative Workshop is using it as training material. However, we've all done stupid stuff at one time and have learned from it. As long as they have learned from it and do not repeat it again, I'll look at it as a hard learned lesson for them. My take on it is - they did something stupid, got spanked for it, and have learned their lesson. To continue beating a dead horse...well...says something about the person that is doing it. And, bigern13, you're right. The discipline that the individuals went through is mentioned in this thread earlier. "The two instructors who touched my drouge were spoken to and were disciplined for their actions. One tandem instructor no longer conducts tandems at our drop zone. The other instructor was suspended for the rest of the year and had to sit through the tandem instructor ground school before resuming tandem instruction." "There was extensive discussion with the local tandem examiner, the instructors involved, and with Relative Workshop. There was disciplinary action taken and I believe it was appropriate. Relative Workshop was notified and a report was filed. They are satisfied with the disciplinary action that was taken and consider the incident closed. They are using this video as an example of what not to do."Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #119 October 15, 2005 By the way, how are you?Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Safteyjest 0 #120 October 15, 2005 ***By the way, how are you? Now who is starting the name calling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #121 October 15, 2005 If one of the moderators feel that me asking how someone is doing is starting name calling, I'm totally ok with them telling me so and removing my post.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #122 October 15, 2005 QuoteI agree that the video is still shocking and that people can learn from it - especially since it has been commented and noted in the thread earlier (as well as when I talked to a couple of the individuals yesterday) that Relative Workshop is using it as training material. Quote To continue beating a dead horse...well...says something about the person that is doing it. We can still learn from it, means it isn't beating a dead horse. As long as names/DZ's aren't mentioned, and they weren't, where is the harm? As for name calling, again, show me. People are not naming names, but people are getting defensive. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OneHotSkydiver 0 #123 October 19, 2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What happened to the Instructors involved? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can find out for you and let you know. Well, what did you find out? From a reliable source like USPA or RW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
