Would you let a 13 year old do a tandem?

[inzite 0]

From an idealistic standpoint, I gotta side with Beverly on this one. I live in Moscow, Russia. I was at DZ Stupino this past summer, and to my great surprise a load of a dozen or so visibly physically/mentally handicapped children had been brought out to the DZ. Average age among them, if I had to guess, was about twelve years old. They were all doing tandems, and had a blast!!!

I never asked what exactly their conditions were, but I'd hazard a guess that several of them were terminally ill (leukemia, diabetes, etc.). I was on the loads with a few of them, and they were all amazingly excited, ecstatic to be doing a tandem jump, amazed to be actually doing SOMETHING wild.

I wish back in the states minors had that chance. If a thirteen year old wants to do a tandem, they should be given the same green light that any adult would get. It's unfortunate that libability plays such a large part in American society.

That being said, if I were a DZO in the states, the civil system being what it is, I would never let a minor onto my aircraft unless the state's laws specifically upheld the ability of a minor (or guardian) to sign a legal waiver.

[Scoop 0]

Yeah, your legal constraints/liabilities sound tough.
Suggest if shes that keen she could go to a wind tunnel or something and come back to do the proper jump at the required age.

Out of principal, as soon as someone gets all cocky, I stand by my original decision. Even if in hindsight its wrong. The guys an asshole and needs to be made an example of!!

Poor old Veruca in the middle I feel sorry for

[Ted 0]

No age limit in New Zealand either.. h

[windcatcher 0]

well, I personally don't think that 13 yr. olds should be able to do tandems. I mean, they probably would think it was a really sweet joyride, but I wouldn't expect a 13 yr. old to really understand the risks fully enough. Let the children stay in their playground till they are old enough to play in the sky.
Imagine if a young 13 yr.old girl went for what she thought would be the coolest day of her life, and ended dying without being aware of the risks

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[chuteless 1]

I still think I'd do it...but I don't worry about lawyers and CSPA.

The only time one has to worry about the lawyers, is if something goes terribly wrong. If the tandem is a successful jump, and the kid enjoyed it, I doubt he would sue.

The only time one has to worry about CSPA is.....well, never !

Bill Cole D-41

[scrublink 0]

These things wouldn't happen to you if you would walk around with a permanent scowl like I do. No one ever stops me and asks me for anything. Being old and crusty has some advantages.

[Orange1 0]

Seems to me most of the arguments revolve more about the legal liability than the issue of does the kid understand what they're doing. If legal liability wasn't an issue, would 13 be considered too young? A 14-year old kid died a while ago here in a skateboarding accident. I guess it's a moot point whether a 13-year old on a skateboard is safer than one strapped to a highly experienced tandem instructor.. 13 year-olds surf and we get Great Whites in the ocean here ...

I've seen an 8-year old go up and I think - for that particular kid - it was too young, but my friend's 10-year old went and loved it.
However - as for MY child ... I doubt I'd let her up before 12 (assuming she wants to, of course, and only if she asks first). But by then she'll have been a DZ kid for 9 years and will understand a fair bit about the sport ...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[scrublink 0]

In the states there are DZ's and DZO's that will take terminall ill passengers that fall below the minimum age. I have been present and witnessed quite a few. In these cases the DZO and Instructor contact the manufacturer and they get lawyers involved to make sure it is legitimate. Make a Wish usually is the group that will contact you about this. They do happen for the right reasons. Not wanting to wait until you are 18 is not the right reason and just proves the individuals immaturity. A good question to ask the father would have been if he allows his daughter to have consentual sex. The age of consent in most states is 18. Might have thrown the guy a little off balance. Sometimes I wish I got questions like this but see above post for reason.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

If I were not regulated as to what the minimum age passenger I could take, my simple answer would be that I would gladly take ANY passenger large enough to fill my student harness securely at it's tightest settings.

Chuck

[davelepka 4]

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The only time one has to worry about the lawyers, is if something goes terribly wrong

My god, you're right.

Hey, forward me a list of dates when things are going to go wrong so I can stay away from the DZ those days. That would be great.

[quade 4]

Sigh . . .

For a tandem BUSINESS (especially in the U.S.) I'd have to say absolutely not. It's simply not worth the financial risk for both the business and the rest of the skydiving community.

That said, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the concept of the owner of a tandem manufacturing company, who is fully qualified on his own rigs, taking up a minor passenger of his own (perhaps an offspring).

Lemme ask this question and see what kind of discussion THIS bit of trivial will bring; "At what age may a person fly a glider solo in the U.S.?"

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[scrublink 0]

I belive it to be 14, but I can't find my copy of the FAR's for verification.

[jimmytavino 16]

. so the whuffo dad can't be happy with being at a dz,,, watching people skydive ,and being told in a polite way,, that "this is our policy".. regarding underage tandems.... huh????...
No HE has to get pushy and rude and press his point,,,,,
in effect saying,, " well !! we'll see about that ! "..
He must think he is at some amusement park or some fast food place,, where it's "ok to abuse the hired help".... well fine....
If and when he does return,, Notify him that the cost for those under age 18 is 200 dollars for EVERY year, that the student is below the age REQUIREMENT>>>> i. e. 1000 bucks for precious little miss salt.......See what he says THEN..... Sounds like the type of father who hosts underage drinking parties for their little "dears" so that the kid can be popular in school... Sheesh,, what ever happened to responsible Parenting.....???

[drdive 0]

You ought to take him AND his attorney up and let them do a tandem - together. Would be fun to watch them.

"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub"

"

[packing_jarrett 0]

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I wish back in the states minors had that chance. If a thirteen year old wants to do a tandem, they should be given the same green light that any adult would get. It's unfortunate that libability plays such a large part in American society.

I think differently. I think only a select few or those that deserve to jump should do it. When I say "deserve" I mean kids who have parents who've been in the sport for a very long time, or played an important role in Skydiving.

Na' Cho' Cheese

[Lindsey 0]

Nope. I don't think children should skydive. 13 y/o children are just beginning to be able to think abstractly. While the dangers of skydiving don't register with a lot of adults, at least we should be developmentally capable of grasping what's at risk. 13 y/o's aren't there.

Also, I'd imagine that most children who go skydiving do it because it's the dream of one of their parents for them to skydive. You have your own life. Let them live theirs--in their own time if they want to jump, then they will.

Just my $.02

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[NWFlyer 2]

I don't know that it's a matter of DZ kids being more or less "deserving" than the general population, but that DZ kids (who grew up around the sport and whose parents are involved in the sport) are perceived to pose the lowest risk of legal action if something goes wrong. The chances of a whuffo parent raising holy hell and bringing in the lawyers if their little darling is injured are much higher than a skydiving parent doing the same. In addition, kids who grow up around the sport are probably the least likely to decide once they hit 18 that they really didn't want to sign away their rights after all.

In answer to the original question, definitely not in the U.S.! I'm amazed at the restraint you showed with the parent... he's probably the type who is used to always getting his way through bullying and intimidation. Shame he's teaching his little darling the same thing.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[skypuppy 1]

Yeah, but then he took his underage daughter on a tandem demo jump for the hundred year anniversary of flight -- kind of negates most of the positive stuff he says about it!

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[quade 4]

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I belive it to be 14, but I can't find my copy of the FAR's for verification.

Absolutely correct.

Now, what age does the FAA require a person to be to skydive?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[bob.dino 1]

Is that just because you fit that description?

[ScottyInAus 0]

I would be worried about the equipment.
I mean most 13 year old, especially girls, are very small.

Example, My missus did a tandem the other week, she's 19 but a very small firl and when the canopy opened the chest strap slid up to (almost) her neck.

I'd be more worried about the child being hurt under canopy or the like...

Just a though
Cheers
Scotty

Cheers,
Jason.

[dragon2 2]

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I would be worried about the equipment.
I mean most 13 year old, especially girls, are very small.

Example, My missus did a tandem the other week, she's 19 but a very small firl and when the canopy opened the chest strap slid up to (almost) her neck.

I'd be more worried about the child being hurt under canopy or the like...

Just a though
Cheers
Scotty

We have a special small harness for kids. If the're too small to fit they can't go, but most kids from ~5 yrs and up fit.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Trae 1]

in reply to "Would you let a 13 year old do a tandem? "

If it was me at 13 the answer is YES.

I had to wait till I was 18.

Your legal situation does sound a bit restrictive.
NZ does 14 year olds . You could suggest the blustery one travel there.

If the harness was designed for a little one then the actual jump would be a breeze. Perhaps it's an untapped part of our sport.

Get em while they're young.

No fear but heaps of FUN.

• Quote

[ScottyInAus 0]

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We have a special small harness for kids. If the're too small to fit they can't go, but most kids from ~5 yrs and up fit.

Well there you go

Cheers,
Jason.

[scrublink 0]

I would have to say that the FAA doesn't really care how old you are if you jump out of an airplane. But I could've missed that section of the book I don't tend to remember things that don't pertain to situations that I don't expect to be in.