What do you say when people ask about death in this sport?

[sundance 1]

Something doesn't seem right about these numbers. Should it perhaps be 1.46 deaths per 100,000 miles or even 1,000,000 miles driven? 1.46 per 100 million miles driven strikes me as way too low!

In any event, if we compare deaths per miles fallen to miles driven, depending on what the correct number is for miles driven fatalities, skydiving might be safer. Let's see... it could be 21 fatalities for 5 million miles fallen or 1 for each 250,000 miles fallen.

Wow, aren't these kind of stats fun. Fact is liars figure and figures can lie. Life is risky and some activities we persue in life make it even riskier. We all know we are increasing the risks when we jump (or we're kidding ourselves and that is ok too), but the quality and experience it gives our lives must be worth it. In the end, no one is getting out of here alive. I have come to look at the entire life journey experience from the view that the quality of it is more important to me than the quantity. That pretty much explains why I jump.


Post: USPA figures for 2004: 21 fatalities; 2,221,115 skydives
NHTSA figures for 2004: 42,636 fatalites; death rate of 1.46 per hundred million miles driven.

NHTSA figures show that motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death for all age groups under 35.



Ken
What is a FREE Gift? Aren't all gifts free?

One of the surest signs that intelligent life exists in outer space is that none of it has tried to contact us.

[Trae 1]

Heaps more skydivers have been killed on the way to the Dz rather than while skydiving.

In skydiving you've got two of the best brakes in existence.

Imagine you were in a car going 120mph and you hit the brakes half a mile away from a brick wall. In a car if your brakes don't work you have few other options .
In skydiving you have another brake that works even faster than the first set.

I saw a guy die once after falling 20 feet from a walkway. In skydiving you've put yourself in a potentially dangerous situation but have the power of lots of technological and procedural developement to help keep you safe .

If you take your time and do it right (flying & landing safely is doing it right ) then skydiving can actually become lots of relatively safe fun.

Cheers

[heidihagen 0]

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I will say that skydiving is safer than driving on the highway, safer than playing football or soccer, or rugby for that matter, AND safer than having unprotected sex with people you don't know...

AND safer than having unprotected sex while driving on the highway or plowing through a football game

i didn't lose my mind, i sold it on ebay. .:need a container to fit 5'4", 110 lb. cypres ready & able to fit a 170 main (or slightly smaller):.[/ce

[glyrenden 0]

After reading all of this it sounds like some of us really think that it is very dangerous yet still have thousands of jumps.

I have one tandem jump. (Which I loved) I then decied that I'm going to learn how to skydive. See, best I figure, it's not any more risky then flying a small plane. I have been flying for two year. and if my wings fall off my plane then I'm in the same situation that I would be in if my "wing" doesn't deploy skydiving.

it's all about preparation . Every time before I fly I check every surface of my plane to make sure that it isn't damaged. I spent my first 80 hours of flying training, learning to deal with emergency situations. and from what you are al saying it's about the same deal skydiving. hell, I think anyone that want to be good at someting is always trying to learn new things.

People, I think, have the right to be scared. Man doesn't fly well on his own. but that doesn't keep us out of the sky.

[VampireGirl 0]

I am scared stiff of crossing the road and will stand there for ages, waiting until it's clear before I cross.

I always make people aware of how dangerous crossing the road is (especially when people actually run in front of vehicles) and so diffuse the situation.

www.sneale-create.com

[Tonto 1]

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I will say that skydiving is safer than driving on the highway, safer than playing football or soccer, or rugby for that matter, AND safer than having unprotected sex with people you don't know...

Clearly, you don't live in Africa.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[CReWLL 0]

When folks ask me how often skydivers die, I tell them "just once, like everybody else".

[StevePhelps 0]

I usually tell them it was far more dangerous for me to drive out to the DZ on my Harley than to jump out of that plane. Everytime I do either, I know I can die.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I then decied that I'm going to learn how to skydive. See, best I figure, it's not any more risky then flying a small plane.

Unlike a lot of statements about driving, your's is probably true. Unfortuntely, GA is one of the most dangerous recreational activities we have, so it just means that you're fairly risk accepting.

Personally, I think the most dangerous recreational choice is to stay on the couch all spare hours. We know that more people die from that and smoking than anything else. Takes longer, but the quality of life ain't great (again, imo).

[Samurai136 0]

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Well, they are the leading cause of death for drivers under 35. Skydiving is the leading cause of death for skydivers under 35. You can decide to not be in either group if you so choose.

Nope. Look at the web site: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/

It's leading cause of death for all ages 3 to 35, not the more restrictive category of "drivers". Although "not skydiving" is a good way to avoid a skydiving fatality, "not driving" does not eliminate the risk of fatality in a motor vehicle accident. The NHTSA's figures also include passengers, pedestrians and bicyclists killed by motor vehicles.

Point being, the perception of risks involved in "driving" and the reality are vastly different. Motor vehicle accidents are the leading cause of death under age 35. But somehow the general public believes skydiving is more dangerous and accepts driving as a necessary risk. Granted, motor vehicles are the modern accepted mode of transist; but accepting the risk as 'necessary' doesn't change the fact that it is the leading cause of death.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[skypuppy 1]

I usually try to put in a bit of perspective by comparing it to a sport like skiing -- while people do die skiing every year, the most likely accidents requiring medical attention are lower leg injuries, and most people will not ever encounter even that.
Injuries or fatalities that do occur are USUALLY caused by someone getting in over their head, overconfidence, whatever....

Just like some people go out to the ski hill, do a couple of runs and then hit the bar, skydivers can choose to do only a couple of jumps and then stop. They don't have to keep jumping....

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Sneakerz 0]

I usually respond like this,

"I do not choose to live my life this way because I want to die, I choose to live like this because I love life. I want to see all there is to be seen, do all there is to do, I dont want to ever sit back and say to myself, damn, I wish I would have done that. And at this point, if for some reason I was on my death bed, I could say that I have enjoyed my life. Can you say the same?" On top of that, the people and friends I have gotten to know through this sport are the best in the world, and that is the part that I would really not trade for anything. I would rather not get taken out by falling down the steps in my house.

---------------
"Once you find a job that you like, you never have to work another day in your life"

[billvon 3,044]

>It's leading cause of death for all ages 3 to 35, not the more restrictive category of "drivers".

It's both. Most adults drive.

> "not driving" does not eliminate the risk of fatality in a motor vehicle accident.

Staying out of cars (and away from roads) does eliminate the risk of dying in a motor vehicle accident - just as staying out of the sky (and out of skydiving aircraft, and away from demos) eliminates the risk of dying in a skydiving accident.

[MB38 0]

Do you know what the leading cause of death for skydivers is? Car accidents. The second leading cause of death? Heart disease. The third? Cancer.

That usually answers the question. It may not be in the correct order [whatever the leading cause of death for anybody... I know the three listed are major but I'm not sure if they're the biggest], but it's effective.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[mx757 4]

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I will say that skydiving is safer than driving on the highway,

Oh Billy Skydiving much safer than driving on the highway with you...and I thought I drove fast... you got me beat...

[Zoter 0]

Yes roads can be dangerous

[kelpdiver 2]

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Do you know what the leading cause of death for skydivers is? Car accidents. The second leading cause of death? Heart disease. The third? Cancer.

Put up the numbers. I think a few of you guys are misreading the information.

Skydivers have an annual mortality rate of 1 in 1000. Whereas vehicle accidents only gets 1 in 6500 each year in our country. Younger drivers have a higher rate than the norm, but I'd be rather surprised if those under 35 are that much worse.

Given the age and fitness bias for the skydiving population, I wouldn't buy into the greater risk of dying from cancer or heart disease either.

[tbrown 26]

I don't try to prove to people that the sport is safe any more, because it isn't, and I have no interest in seeing lots more people join the sport.

[billvon 3,044]

>But we need lots more people to join the sport. Because like most
> things, the sport has to grow or else it will wither and die . . .

That's a load of crap.

>and one need look no farther than the trials and tribulations of any
>number of attempted soccer leagues in the U.S. for an example.

So is it honestly your contention that people can no longer play soccer in the US as a result? All that matters to me (and most skydivers, I think) is that we can keep skydiving. So we don't have a lot of competitive leauges with the big sponsorships and big prize money - so what? If that's why people are in skydiving, they're in the wrong sport.

> You can make it not safe by doing uncool stuff like pulling low, not
>clearing your airspace before pulling, making radical turns close to the
>ground, or insisting you can teach yourself swooping after just fifty
>jumps because you've been watching these guys do it and "it can't be
>THAT hard".

And it is unsafe because you will be in the air with people who are doing all those things. And it is unsafe because if something very minor goes wrong - say a knot comes out of your toggle at the wrong time - you can die even if you do everything else right.

>But if you do things like that, you'll also find that people won't jump
>with you anymore, because they want to be safe.

Simply not true at most DZ's. Indeed, those types will tend to congregate and jump with each other. They will comfort themselves by saying that everyone else is a dinosaur who just doesn't understand swooping/freeflying/modern skydiving. And until they do something truly dangerous, like regularly pulling at 800 feet or flying into the hangar more than once, they will tend to not get grounded.

>I recognize the danger, but I have to believe that this sport CAN be
>"safe, mostly". Because if I really can't believe it's mostly safe, then I
>can't justify doing it anymore. Not to my family and not to myself.

Ah, here's the disagreement. It CAN be mostly safe, most of the time, for most people. But it cannot be safe in any reasonable sense of the word. It is not as inherently safe as soccer is, for example. If you get kicked in the head and pass out on a soccer field, you fall five feet to grass. Most skydivers cannot lose consciousness (or even become significantly disoriented) and land safely. That alone makes it inherently different. There are no "time outs."

>But it discourages and disappoints me to hear people who have
>personally enjoyed thousands of jumps to say things like "this sport
>isn't safe", or they don't care if there's any further growth in the sport.

Sorry to disappoint you.

>So what, the party can end now that they've had their fun?

Who said anything about the party ending? Is the only reason you skydive is to see it on TV? The sport will continue to advance whether or not it gets on ESPN, or doubles in size, or gets into the olympics. The advances will be driven by the real pioneers in this sport, the people who spend their lives skydiving and pushing the limits. They are also the ones who die with depressing regularity because the edge is a dangerous place. It is NOT for everyone.

> I want to see the sport stick around AND grow, because if it doesn't
>grow it will die.

Again, that's a load of crap. The number of skiiers is decreasing. Skiing hasn't died.

>It will be outlawed, "for our own good", because "it's not safe".

That will only happen if every grandmother and frat boy starts skydiving. It can be safe _enough_ for people willing to put in the effort. It cannot be made safe enough for the general public. Getting the general public in the air _will_ kill skydiving as we know it.

[kelpdiver 2]

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But we need lots more people to join the sport. Because like most things, the sport has to grow or else it will wither and die and one need look no farther than the trials and tribulations of any number of attempted soccer leagues in the U.S. for an example.

Soccer for participants is as healthy as ever. It's only the spectator leagues that have failed to succeed.

Skydiving is a participant sport. It will support as many dropzones as there are participants. 5 turbine DZs surround San Francisco. If the numbers dropped in half, we'd probably have 2 or 3 instead. On the gear side, seems very healthy. Many companies in many facets of the gravity sports. If numbers dried up, we'd still have the current level of innovation to continue using.

[glyrenden 0]

Billvon,

so after reading your post do you hate skydiving now. because you really seem to.

[daniel_owen_uk 0]

I didn't read it like that at all. I read it as someone that loves the sport the way it is and doesn't want it to change.

Not all growth is good.

Is this sport safe, no, its as simple as that. How safe is this sport would be a much better question.

__________________

BOOM Headshot

[goose491 0]

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Not all growth is good.

Precisely. I even shudder sometimes thinking that the student progression programs we have in place now are too quick and easy. That is, that they get people in the air solo before any of them can truly understand what they are getting themselves into.

I like to see people progress and get into the sport... but it seems the number of first jumpers taking and passing quickly through AFF or PFF is on the rise, not fall.

I agree with Billvon, we will see increased regulation of the sport by outside sources when more of the general public gets in and gets hurt. This sport is not for everyone... at the same time, a tandem skydive advertises like a rollercoaster ride. You know?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[billvon 3,044]

>so after reading your post do you hate skydiving now.

Yes. In fact, that's why I train students, write safety articles, jump with the world team and moderate a few boards here - I'm trying to destroy the sport.

[Mike111 0]

Ditto