AFF newbie Vs. turning

[DTOXX 0]

Hello all.

I am taking instructions via AFF at my local DZ and have again failed my last lesson. This is where the single JM releases and I am to perform 360 left and right turns.

My problem is that I keep dropping my right knee which causes a left turn. This is from observation from my instructor and my own recollection. Knowing this I have the following questions.

Should I attempt to keep my knees (and feet) on a parallel plane while trying to turn with my arms? OR Should I "counter balance" (if thats the correct terminology) with my legs. I.E. for a right turn I would bank my arms to the right and raise my right knee.

Any insight from someone with more experience would be greatly appreciated and thank you for taking the time to read this newbies question.

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D.T. Holder
SIMstudy

[nicknitro71 0]

The fastest way to turn (let's say right) is to simultaneously turn your right arm in and your LEFT ankle in toward the right leg. For now though I would suggest to keep the legs in the basic freefall position and just use your arms. But again you'd better ask your instructor, he’s the one who’s been watching you and knows what you are doing wrong.

Cool

Memento Audere Semper

903

[tombuch 0]

Quote

Should I attempt to keep my knees (and feet) on a parallel plane while trying to turn with my arms? OR Should I "counter balance" (if thats the correct terminology) with my legs. I.E. for a right turn I would bank my arms to the right and raise my right knee.

I hate to give simple answers to complex questions, but here goes...talk with your instructor. He's the expert.

With that said...

Any body movement will cause a turn or some other motion. Experienced skydivers can turn using a knee, foot, arm, shoulder, hip, or whatever. Mostly, we combine many different things to create very precise turns. At this stage in your training the objective is to isolate variables and feel the effect of simple changes in body presentation. Some schools teach arm turns initially, some teach leg turns. Whatever, they can all work. A few schools teach combinations, or alternate responses to spins or uncommanded turns.

So, speak with your instructor again. Move those body parts he wants you to move, and leave the rest in a stable position as best you can. Keep it simple.

If you have a chance to get video, do that. Video rules, especially at this stage of your training.

Another suggestion...asking questions here isn't a bad idea, but you should carefully evaluate who is responding. Use the feature on the left of the post (full profile) to check a writers credentials, then filter everything you read back through your instructor. Other instructors may have some great thoughts, as may other students, but you should know who is making the suggestions and what their experience is.

Keep in mind that the most important instructor in the world is YOUR instructor.

Blue Skies,

-tom buchanan

[DTOXX 0]

First and foremost, thank you for the responses.

Yes I plan to video the next jump. Like many I had my AFF 1 filmed with the idea of showing it off to friends and family. I have since used it to see how my JM's flew and how my body position was on my first jump. I agree video is a great tool all be it expensive if used excessively.

I of course have and will again discuss this with my instructor. It was/is my hope to use the forum as a way of getting multiple views on this problem.

I am also making plans to be in Las Vegas next month and plan to visit the vertical tunnel. If nothing else perhaps I will be able to work out this little problem without all the other issues being present. Those being the chute opening or not, and will this landing be OK or not...
I appreciate all the feedback and will certainly read it with the knowledge that there is only one person alive that can absolutely tell me what I did wrong. Thanks again.

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D.T. Holder
SIMstudy

[stuart 0]

I'm a newcomer too but also had a bit of a sticky moment on the AFF course at a similar point. The main advice I was given was...relax...relax...relax!

Smile lots, pull faces at your Instructor (warn them first though!
BUT: discuss and clear anything with your Instructor first or they may be the one pulling faces

Keep at it - best of luck for the next jump

• Quote

[tombuch 0]

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I am also making plans to be in Las Vegas next month and plan to visit the vertical tunnel. If nothing else perhaps I will be able to work out this little problem without all the other issues being present. Those being the chute opening or not, and will this landing be OK or not...

Great idea! It is super awesome that you will have that opportunity. Tell the tunnel instructors what your problems are (bring your video, if you have it), and prepare to learn.

Good luck.

-tom b.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Quote

Should I attempt to keep my knees (and feet) on a parallel plane while trying to turn with my arms? OR Should I "counter balance" (if thats the correct terminology) with my legs. I.E. for a right turn I would bank my arms to the right and raise my right knee.

First of all, you should do what you were taught by your instructor. That being said, I will tell you how I instruct my students on turns:

-first, it's best to learn the simplest method first. I have my students keep their backs in a straight line and not mess with their legs or feet at all. To turn, I have them look in the direction they want to turn, drop the elbow and forearm on that side while raising the elbow and forearm on the other side the same distance. It only takes a very-little movement to get going around. How I get students to remember which direction they will turn is two-fold. First, you should ALWAYS look where you are going. Second, when you look that way, your elbow and arm are blocking your view, so LOWER it out of the way. The best way to get the coordinated up and down effort of your arms is to lay a broom handle over your shoulders behind your neck with your wrists draped over it while you are laying on a creeper. You then practice the drill. When you drop the arm of the direction you wish to turn, the other arm will be levered up by the stick. Do not yaw right or left; keep your back in a straight line and don't move your legs.

Later, after you get through the program, you can start experimenting with leg turns.

Chuck Blue
D-12501
AFF-I, Tandem-I, SL-I

[drenaline 0]

If you can, go to a wind tunnel.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[OliShann 0]

See DT, from now on you will be jumping with a broom handle over your shoulders behind your neck with your wrists draped over it.

Have fun.

[riggerrob 643]

Yes, definitely try the wind tunnel.
Secondly, we use Skymonkey's method to teach turns at Pitt Meadows. This method is easy to learn because you turn with your arms (which are easy to see), but keep your legs neutral.
After students have mastered arm turns, we progress to leg turns and combination turns.
Thirdly, ask for video on your next skydive.

[DTOXX 0]

I would again like to thank everyone for their input. I was able to sneak away at lunch today for my level 5 jump (second attempt). With everyones comments here I was able to communicate more intelligently with my JM.

I am now lead to believe that the whole secret is in the butt. (for some reason Clay comes to mind, sorry bud...)

Any now with great fanfair I am cleared for level 6.

Thanks everyone...

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D.T. Holder
SIMstudy

[KATO33 0]

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Any now with great fanfair I am cleared for level 6.

Congrats and keep it up

Blue Skies Black Death

[DTOXX 0]

LOL Did my level 6 today. I shudder to count up the expense todate.
Dive out the door, (a first), backflip (another first) tracking and pull at 4500. Actually 4200 because I spent a second or so checking a slight, very slight, turning motion.
Next jump is graduation dive. I again thank everyone here at Dropzone.com. Even if I have not posted in a thread I have learned by reading them.

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D.T. Holder
SIMstudy

[rob 0]

Pray tell the secret of the butt. I'm having troubles turning, and would appreciate an account of your experience in 'the butt turn'.
Cheers