Non-rated S/L I's

[MakeItHappen 15]

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I'm sure they read the SIM, but who are they going to listen to? A book? A guy (me) who was fired from there? Or the DZO/S&TA?

Hopefully, the airport manager will find another way to accomplish his goal without involving the skydivers.

They might listen to the RD.

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DiveMaker

[NSEMN8R 0]

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Right. But when I started we used round reserves, DC-5's and Sentinel AAD's. If you put that on a student nowadays, most skydivers would think you were being pretty cheap/foolish/negligent because there is much better gear available.

It's funny you mention that. They still use stuff like that. I've seen more rounds out because of FXC misfires than I can count. That gear was old when I started. This is part of why I'm not there any more. But the S&TA/DZO is also the rigger and he says it's airworthy...

I wish I had a better picture.

[NSEMN8R 0]

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They might listen to the RD.

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They might.

And the RD might pull their licenses.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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They might.

And the RD might pull their licenses.

That may be true.

Keep this in mind, USPA is not the 'cops' enforcing rule after rule.
USPA strives to enhance safety. USPA does that by creating what are known and accepted by other agencies as industry standards.

USPA can do something like convincing a newly minted coach to not do something he's not rated for and enhance safety that way as opposed to yanking a membership or rating to attain the same effect.

Also, when you read this thread, you should know that Derek is a former cop and is not a current USPA member. I am a ND of USPA.

Who are you going to listen to?

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DiveMaker

[Hooknswoop 19]

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Also, when you read this thread, you should know that Derek is a former cop and is not a current USPA member. I am a ND of USPA.

Who are you going to listen to?

Are you refering to me?

BTW- I agree with you.

Derek

[NSEMN8R 0]

I agree with you too, but I think I'm just going to tell the airport manager to find someone else to snitch for him. I'd better just stay out of it.

If they could only go after the Group Member DZ I'd be happy to help, but if involving the USPA puts my friends licenses and ratings at risk it's not worth it.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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I agree with you too, but I think I'm just going to tell the airport manager to find someone else to snitch for him. I'd better just stay out of it.

If they could only go after the Group Member DZ I'd be happy to help, but if involving the USPA puts my friends licenses and ratings at risk it's not worth it.

I think you are already involved because you publicly stated that a DZ was not using properly rated Instructors. It's not that hard to figure out what DZ you are talking about and even which Coaches you are talking about.

Your friends' ratings and memberships are already in jeopardy. If there was a fatality, their ratings and membership would be pulled in a heartbeat. You can look through past BOD Meeting minutes and compare revocations to the incidents to see that this is true.

At the very least, you should talk to these new Coaches and let them know what position they are being put in. They all should have a copy of the IRM. Ask them to re-read Section 2 of the Coach section.

USPA tries very hard to make sure all GM dzs use properly rated instructors. Formal disciplinary actions are the very last step that USPA will take. USPA will try to convince members to do the right thing via its network of S&TAs, Directors and individual members. There is a Catch-22 here. USPA cannot initiate disciplinary actions if they don't know about a problem. USPA also cannot fix a problem by talking to new rating holders if they don’t know about the problem. USPA tries to fix these problems without formal disciplinary action first. A conversation between these Coaches and the RD can go a long way at this point in time. If a fatality happens, then the Coaches would definitely be SOL.

Many years ago, I was asked to teach a SL FJC. I had an AFF I rating, but not a SL rating. I received a tutorial on the SL handling prior to the FJC. It was one of the items on the proficiency card. I taught the FJC under the supervision of a SL rated I. Then the Chief Instructor asked me to dispatch the students. That's where I drew the line and refused to do that. [I had been jumping for about 10 years and had around 2000 jumps at the time.] The students were high profile too. It was the Chief of Police of SF (later Mayor of SF) and his son. There was no way I'd put myself in a position of being an un-rated instructor tossing students, no matter who they were. I could have dispatched the students safely, but it was not right to do that.

One way or another, these Coaches need to stop dispatching SL students or get their SL I rating. Students expect that they have properly rated instructors. I think you need to look at the student's rights and expectations and put that before your friends' ratings.

I think that a conversation between you and your RD can clear this up. The RD can then talk to the coaches and DZO. The Coaches would probably not be fired. The DZO has a staff shortage anyway. He might bend over backwards to help these coaches get their SL rating. If your motive is only to shut down this DZ, then sitting on the fence might do that. If your motive is to enhance safety then you need to talk to your RD.

Do the right thing.

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DiveMaker