3 jump wonder

[hexadecimal 0]

I have a situation on my hands with a friend who I'm convinced is going to become a danger to himself and others if he continues in this sport. Luckily, all of his jumps so far have been tandem... but he is in the process of becoming a student.

Examples of my arguments with him over the past week (sadly, I'm not making these up):

1.)
Him: "When are you going to try BASE?"
Me: "When I have enough jumps and am capable of being trained in BASE jumping"
Him: "Why? I'm going this summer!"
Me: "No you're not, you don't even know how to skydive yet"
Him: "All you have to do is jump and pull your chute, who cares."
The conversation degraded into him arguing with me that he knew what he was doing and was going to "buy some BASE gear off ebay".

2.)
He showed up at my house the other day to go to the DZ, and already had a full face helmet. I informed him that he probably wouldn't be allowed to use it because he needed to hear the radio while under canopy. He pointed out that he "wanted to listen to some music" during the jump then proceeded to show me how he had rigged headphones into his full face helmet. I basically told him to have fun trying to get it past his instructor. We didn't jump that day due to weather, so he still hasn't been put in his place by an instructor unfortunately.

3.)
While watching a skydiving DVD at my house, he saw someone flying a wingsuit and asked me what it was. I told him what it was and explained the purpose.

He immediately started telling me how he would "make one and use it when he gets his license".




Others:
He has himself convinced that his instructor is going to let him jump a 150 for his first "solo". He weighs about 200lbs.

He is convinced that skydiving is completely safe and as long as you pull, nothing will go wrong.

Many more...

I've talked to him numerous times and myself and another friend have both told him that we would never jump with him or let anyone we knew jump with him due to his incredibly dangerous and cocky attitude. He basically thinks the whole thing is a big joke and laughs at anyone who tries to tell him otherwise.

Has anyone else here dealt with a similar situation? Any suggestions? I'm running out of patience...

[NWFlyer 2]

He hasn't even gone through a full FJC yet. He has no idea how he'll react when he's on his own. At this point, having only done three tandems, skydiving is a perfectly safe thrill ride from his point of view. It's not that challenging, and he knows he'll be really good at it in a really short period of time. How hard can it be, right?

I'm willing to bet that the FJC and his student jumps will be a reality check for him, at least to some extent. He's talking big right now because he doesn't know any better.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[hexadecimal 0]

Sorry, should have added that he has in fact gone through the FJC... and still nothing is quite "clicking" for him.

[skyyhi 0]

There are a few of these types out there. They usually get humbled during training (AFF) or go through the training and get licensed and then downsize really quick and get hurt or die. . .hopefully they just get hurt. . .then they get the lesson. . .usually. . .

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[Spizzzarko 0]

Check it,

A lot of newbies to the sport are in a real big rush to go out and try everything all at once. If your friend is heel bent on killing himself, then there is nothing you can do to stop him. He will figure it out when there is titanium in his leg or worse.

[FrogNog 1]

You could let his instructors know that you think he's gung-ho and they should watch him. If he pulls something and they were already warned to keep an eye on him, he could get some talking-tos as he progresses through his student status. (The purpose of warning the instructors is to increase the chance that they'll catch him trying something _before_ he actually leaves the plane.)

You could show him some swoop videos that include the crashes. The risk there is he might think it's really cool.

I think showing him actual skydiving / base gore videos may be over the top, but I don't know.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[kevinwhelan 0]

Maybe it is just bravado to cover up first jump jitters, or it could be that he justs wants to talk skydiving and not having the experience of a few jumps to talk about latches onto things that seem exciting in the sport.
But if you think he is the kind of guy that would actually buy a base rig and jump it without real training, maybe you should give your instructors a heads up on what they are taking on

"be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing

[phoenixlpr 0]

Keep it simple!

Some people just talk instead of thinking. :)

[popsjumper 2]

I'm inclined to agree that uneducated bravado is at work here...otherwise, cut your emotional ties now before the inevitable happens....

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rendezvous 0]

May be you should impress upon him to read Darwin's theory of "Evolution"

[tigra 0]

Chances are his first AFP jump will humble him some. And, to be honest, some of your previous posts could raise similar red flags. Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall a post that went something like this- "I don't think I need to do another tandem, I've done other extreme sports and always keep a cool head!"

Honestly, you have less to worry about when he's a student than you will once he graduates. The jumpmasters are pretty good at spotting future craters and students from hell, and they know how to handle them. And that first AFP jump and canopy flight can be a really humbling experience too. The thing about the student training is it tends to remind most of us what we DON'T know. In fact, the longer I am in the sport and the more jumps I do, the more I realize just how much there is to learn.

And yes, to one degree or another, most of us have dealt with this in the past.

[hexadecimal 0]

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall a post that went something like this- "I don't think I need to do another tandem, I've done other extreme sports and always keep a cool head!"

Definitely didn't say that... though I guess I did say something close (which was agreed upon by my instructor) on another board?

http://skydivechicago.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=0bd3c5dc4a1da72f020027ffd62f2237;topic=1012.0

I did end up making a 3rd tandem before starting the AFP.

Thanks for the advice though... I'm leaning towards just mentioning it to the instructors and letting them deal with it.

[tigra 0]

That's the one! And yes, there is a difference between expressing confidence in your abilities and being cocky. (No, I don't think you were being cocky, but you have to appreciate the irony of a confident 6 jump wonder expressing concern over a cocky 3 jump wonder!)

If he's still got that attitude when he's finished AFP, worry then!

I remember a couple of guys sort of like that when I went through AFP and I don't think they ever graduated. One guy had a paragear catalog and was pricing equipment before we even did our first AFP. I was out every weekend for the next 2 months and never saw him. Ran into him a year later and he was still a student! Haven't seen him since, and he was so gung ho when he started out. The other guy liked to brag to the girls in bars about his skydiving and I don't think he ever made it past AFP level 2. You could be worried for nothing!

[hexadecimal 0]

I do appreciate the irony now that you've pointed it out ;)

One thing though... don't you have to be cocky and think you know everything in order to be considered a "xx jump wonder"? ;)

I also wouldn't say I'm quite confident... I just got lucky and had a couple good landings on my first 3 AFP jumps (though I guess I had 3 good landings considering I didn't get hurt on any of them :))

Anyway you're probably right, I am probably worried about nothing... but knowing his attitude towards most things (which usually mirrors his "i know everything" attitude about skydiving) is what made me worry to begin with instead of just ignoring it.

Do you jump at SDC?

[tigra 0]

Yes, but I haven't been out much this year yet. Possibly this weekend if my rig is ready to jump. (had to do the cypres 4 year check but hopefully it will be back by this weekend!)

And we never miss 4th of July weekend!

[dgskydive 0]

Plenty of guys like him out there. Just start calling him D.G.I.T (dead guy in training) Maybe that will get the point across.

I bet once he starts jumping he will chill out a bit. Nothing like having the ground come up at you at 120 mph to humble you a bit. I have seen guys like this before. He will either get it or die TRYING not to get it.

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I'm leaning towards just mentioning it to the instructors and letting them deal with it.

Good call! He may be just trying to convince himself that he isn't scared when deep down he is wiping his ass everytime he thinks about jumping. Have him go play in the tunnel with a good coach and have them show him just what he doesn't know.

Dom

[PaulProbuild 0]

Sadly there are many people out there like this, I have a friend who is exactly the same & really goes to the extreme, I showed him a video of what I am currently doing & explained about the skydive training I have had & he wants to do it without all the training, fancies himself as a BASE jumper, he seems to think he can jump off Valley Bridge in the town centre appx 75 feet high!!!!!!!!!!!!

He does the same with anything I do, I build models for living & all of a sudden he is the worlds best model maker & he thinks he can make better models & earn far more than I do even though his model making skills are on par with a seven year old (no offence to anyone with gifted children)

I build & repair electric guitars & he seems to think he can build a world class guitar with some planks of wood from his back garden & a few bits of piano wire

He has had one driving lesson, can't drive for toffee but he thinks he can handle the 300BHP Jaguar I drive like he was David Coultard

I really have to snap him back at times for his own good even though he is a good friend to me

Paul

[slug 1]

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I'm inclined to agree that uneducated bravado is at work here...otherwise, cut your emotional ties now before the inevitable happens....

Exactly what I was thinking

Just tell the dude you don't want to see/talk with him anymore because you want to remember him the way he was

R.I.P.

[flyangel2 2]

Yup, good point.

He's just sucking you in to see your reaction. Stop reacting, and he'll mellow out. Be aware that his behavior may increase before you see a decline in it, because negative attention is better then no attention.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Mr17Hz 1]

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I have a situation on my hands with a friend who I'm convinced is going to become a danger to himself and others if he continues in this sport. Luckily, all of his jumps so far have been tandem... but he is in the process of becoming a student.

You should introduce your friend to dropzone.com, as well as some of the malfunction videos on skydivingmovies.com. There is a transition between the mindset of somebody after tandem jumps, and someone off of student status. I only have 46 jumps, I graduated AFP last month. I definatly had fantacies about doing a lot of things while I was planning my training in my head. I even thought about how cool it would be to jump to music. Although I didn't act on these ideas, and the small amount of training I've had already has put more realistic goals in my head.

What i'm trying to say is that it sounds like your friend just has a more extreme case of the excitement that we've all experienced. I'm sure the process of training will humble him, like it does to all of us.

Matt Christenson

mattchristenson@realskydiving.com
http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[Monkeyb 0]

Sounds like your friend is a bit naive. Encourage him to wade through the incidents forum as it's sure to humble him. Once he understands that there are so many things that can go wrong in a dive, he'll lose the cocky attitude.

[Zeemax 0]

Do you have a local bowling alley near you?

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

[tbrown 26]

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May be you should impress upon him to read Darwin's theory of "Evolution"

Or just give him a bowling ball for his birthday (or Xmas, whichever comes sooner...).

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Orange1 0]

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You could be worried for nothing!

Maybe. Then again, this isn't a sport where you should be dismissing things out of hand. I sure as heck wouldn't like to watch someone go in and think "if only I had said something..."

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[aftermid 0]

Tell him you think he's got what it takes and he should talk to people at the DZ that are more on his level ie BASE jumpers, swoopers, instructor, etc... in fact bring up his plans around those people and see what they think. He'll get humbled real quick when a guy with a couple hundred BASE jumps has a chat him.