Skydivers who don't deserve respect.

[Trae 1]

Skydivers that don’t deserve respect.


The following is an attempt at a list of irresponsible and unnecessarily dangerous behaviour from skydivers that inhabit some of the darker regions of our sport. Feel free to add to it if the desire takes hold.

This is from personal experience.(ah apologise for any inadequacies in my use of language )
And yes I’ve heard that “it takes one to know one”.

WARNING----This may be describing you or some-one you care about.

Will you recognise IT if it comes your way or if YOU start going it’s way??


-Alcoholics and other substance abuse addicts.
These types leave a trail of bodies and injured innocents in their circular wake. To them alcohol and other indulgences (sometimes including the systematic abuse of women ) have taken precedence over the sport itself. Skydiving has just become a tool for their continued bad behaviour... a place where due to their experience levels and a constant flow of new victims their true nature can be hidden.

-Incompetents in positions of power & influence.
These incompetents often only have one trick--and they stole that from some-one else.
These ‘obstacle men’ can’t handle any-one more skilled or more experienced than themselves being in charge because it exposes their deficiencies. They can take many forms from the loud mouth put-down in public artist to the back-stabbing libelist ( remember it’s not libel if it’s true).
They can take many forms and are dangerous when they spread wrong or incomplete information... Eg some-one who has stolen some-one else’s jump-suit design and presented it as their own........Some of the probs thus created ..eg .these people sell boosters to novices and other low experience jumpers / students causing mayhem in the sky for novices who have to learn to fly their boosters rather than their bodies.

-Bullies who don’t allow people to progress past their own limited level of ability.
These ones are real beauties .They’ll go out of their way to make sure others don’t show them up. These ones can be easy to recognise as they have very limited mentalities and will some times suck up to you if they think you’re getting close to seeing them for what they are. Don’t believe them ...they’ll suck up just to knock you down. These include some top of the pile tandem masters who will smoke it down with their innocent passengers just so they can get on the ground quicker to get extra work. Practising and learning at the expense of others is often their speciality.


-Woosy ‘grandfather of the sport’ types .
These can allow the bad behaviour of others to fester and grow under their weak leadership.
Respect your elders? OK if they deserve it ...otherwise they need putting out to pasture or reminding that they can’t simply rest on their laurels ...not when they aren’t doing their job...and people are being hurt as a result.

Eg why are so many low jump people killing themselves on HP canopies? ,....because no-one big enough is providing the correct guidance? . This looks like official negligence to me.

-Big headed safety officers who don’t do their job due to their swelled heads.
These types often only got the job because they would allow the bad behaviour to continue .
Whenever they turn up their ego’s are flattered and fed so that everything can continue as ‘normal’. These guys slowly turn into apologists for the baddies as they end up having to cover up for their own inadequacies as well. Sometimes the fall guy is nicely prepped to take any hits. Eg after a fatality where negligent behaviour is obvious to the coroner. The ‘gun’ on the DZ may end up wearing it while those really responsible get away with it again & again.

-Newbies that are highly skilled.
This can occur in any aspect of skydiving but especially in the parts that have relatively recently become popular eg head-down, swooping. Due to their high skill levels these types have influence otherwise not available to them. The trouble is they tend to have huge gaps in their knowledge as they only kicked off a year or three ago and haven’t seen one cycle let alone several. When these types get in charge or open a DZ of their own... stand back out of the way cause there’s gonna be trouble of the bouncing kind and a fair bit of it from what I’ve seen. Of course it’s always some-one else’s fault. Some of these types really deserve to be held back in my op.

These issues I’ve raised here are not pleasant for me or anyone who has watched loved ones hurt or killed because of this type of irresponsible behaviour. Inconsideration in our sport is deadly and kills people. Hopefully any readers will take this I the spirit it is meant......ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Are you part of this problem or part of the solution?
Recognising such as a problem may be the first step to changing things for the better.
If you aren’t face with such problems don’t pretend they don’t exist as I haven’t made this stuff up.....experience just talks.

Anyone else out there realise why our insurance premiums have gone though the roof? My guess is it’s in part due to the undesirable behaviour listed above. Clear air awaits us if we can rid our sport of such aberrations.


Cheers its been real .I look forward to any of your replies .

The gods look different when you stand amongst them rather than bowing down before them.

[Brian425 0]

Trae,
You are right that these people have a negative impact on our sport; but, the other jumpers need to do something about it. Evil/Bad flourishes when good people do nothing. It's up to the jumpers at each DZ, to police it. If the group shows that it is unacceptable, these people will forced to change their ways or move on. After a while, they will have no where to jump unless they make an honest attempt to change.
These exact people you described are in every walk of life. They are everywhere. It may seem that there are more at the DZ because you are in close quarters with them for extended periods of time. We have to deal with them. It's part of life.

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[RhondaLea 4]

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You are right that these people have a negative impact on our sport; but, the other jumpers need to do something about it.

Skydiving is a microcosm of the larger universe. You find the same people in here as you do out there.

The kind of person Trae forgot to mention is the constantly negative person who never stops complaining about everyone else's behavior, but never looks at his own.

Such people do more damage than all the rest combined.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[firstime 0]

Well said, but I think the good, safe, positive ppl
out weigh your scenario of skydivers in general. I have seen the one's you speak about at some real big DZ's and just recently @ the WFFC. I am very content at my DZ and we would and have spoken to
the ppl whom you describe. We are self governed and it should remain that way... stay heads up to what is going on and your DZ will be a safer place.

[Trae 1]

in reply to 'constantly negative person who never stops complaining about everyone else's behavior, but never looks at his own. '

I agree those people suck

I'm not just talking about any sort of people here,
I'm talking about 'skydivers' whose negative energies actually kill and injure people through their negligent and careless behaviour....not just annoy them a little .

Sort of like letting a rabid dog run the place .

Don't go shootin' the messenger now that WOULD be negative.

[peckerhead 0]

All skydivers deserve respect.

Some just get more than others.

[Trae 1]

in rep to 'All skydivers deserve respect. '

Perhaps all the ones you've met do.

All the ones I've met have started out having my respect but some have lost it due to their uncaring attitudes to people just like you and me.


later

[peckerhead 0]

It sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder about something.

That is really too bad.

[Trae 1]

Play the ball not the person dude.

Any chip I have on my shoulder is being brushed off right now

laterer

[skykittykat 0]

You forgot 3 types:

Just Like School:
You only hang around and recruit those like you, ie: we are too cool.... To join, you have to dress the same, act the same and have no personal opinions for yourself - only those of the ring leader/s.

Know it All:
You have done an Airspeed Camp and you know everything and will not listen to anyone else as your Type A personality will not allow you to.

Wannabe:
You think your goals and needs come before anyone else - so long as you can get a team together and you think you are going to do well, no matter what - if someone that gives 100% time, energy, learning and committment, you will get rid of them and replace them with somone "who in your opinion skydives better" who you can control, therefore ignoring the whole skydiving ethic so you can achieve that "glory".

Liz

[Trae 1]

How cool skykittykat,

And I was just beginning to think everyone had been brainwashed by these types.

Now I realise there's another one out there ;- the type that doesn't let you have your own feelings. or let you express them without being personally attacked .

Abusers make out it's the Victims fault.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Anyone else out there realise why our insurance premiums have gone though the roof? My guess is it’s in part due to the undesirable behaviour listed above. Clear air awaits us if we can rid our sport of such aberrations.

Insurance rates in general have shot up since the stock market cooled off. Motorcycle insurance used to be available for a song - I had comp for $130/yr. Then I could only get liability for that amount, 3 years back. Collision was over 400 alone.

[popsjumper 2]

All I can say is thank God we have a strong S&TA at home. Knowledgable, personable, well respected and firm in his commitment to DZ safety.

Thanks Gary

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Trae 1]

In reply 2 "Knowledgable, personable, well respected and firm in his commitment to DZ safety."

If we can get the boozy bozo's to take a back seat we'll have something like what you describe .....people we can truly trust and respect in the knowledge that they really do have EVERYONE'S best interests at heart .......not just their own.

Thanks for letting us know it is possible.

[RhondaLea 4]

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in reply to 'constantly negative person who never stops complaining about everyone else's behavior, but never looks at his own. '

I agree those people suck

Really.

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I'm not just talking about any sort of people here,

I am.

Quote

I'm talking about 'skydivers' whose negative energies actually kill and injure people through their negligent and careless behaviour....not just annoy them a little .

Then I think you need to go through the fatality database, and show exactly where and how the kind of people you're talking about affected the outcome.

Quote

Sort of like letting a rabid dog run the place .

Don't go shootin' the messenger now that WOULD be negative.

I wouldn't think of shooting the messenger, but I would consider asking him to go review all the outlandishly negative posts he has made these last few weeks.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[popsjumper 2]

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...If we can get the boozy bozo's to take a back seat

A little off topic but related...when I was in Viet Nam we had all the boozers stay back and do nothing so that the rest of us could do our jobs without having to worry about them doing stupid shit that could get us killed....made it tougher on us but we all felt a LOT safer.

Yes, it can be done. I believe a strong S&TA is a major key...along with the DZO. A thought just hit me...how often do you see that the DZ's personality takes on that of the DZO?

Now for a reminder of "back in the day"....back in the early to late 70's the outraguosness was the rule of the day....amazing that so many of us survived.

Now with the HP canopies and the more demanding disciplines, safety becomes and even more important issue.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[valcore 0]

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in rep to 'All skydivers deserve respect. '

Perhaps all the ones you've met do.

All the ones I've met have started out having my respect but some have lost it due to their uncaring attitudes to people just like you and me.


later

Perhaps I am an Idealist but I believe that everyone deservers respect no matter what type of person they are. But your right some more then others, I know I am not perfect but I try and respect everyone that I know and meet because there is always something you can learn from people even if its what not to do.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I'm from the government and I'm here to help’. ~Ronald Reagan

30,000,000 legal firearm owners killed no one yesterday.

[popsjumper 2]

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...there is always something you can learn from people even if its what not to do.

FWIW...I like that attitude.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Lindsey 0]

Wow...what an overwhelming list. I think I know people in allof those categories, and I'm sure I fit in here or there myself. For whatever negative these folks bring to skydiving, I see more positive.

The "alcoholics"--can be a helluva lot of fun at the bonfire. Check on 'em, and make sure they're not drinking or hung-over when they board the plane tomorrow. When you see your friend needing help, be there to point it out to 'em. I know plenty of people who have substance abuse problems that I don't call dangerous to others.

Incompetents--If you look a little deeper you mind find what their competencies are. Sometimes the things we dislike most in others is that which we hate most about ourselves. If you can't find their competencies, then don't try to make them live up to a standard that you know is not possible for them. Just enjoy them as human beings. Such a person might turn out to be a friend.

Bullies. I honestly haven't met any bullies in skydiving that try to keep people from progressing. That just makes no sense to me....unless maybe you're someone who is not progressing, and someone else is looking out for your safety. Maybe then you'd see that person as a bully. I'm at a loss here.

Grandfather of the sport types. You can learn a heckuvalot from these folks. You should never discount a grandfather's experience, in or out of the sport.

....and so on. I have to go to work. But I think there's a bigger problem with someone who finds fault in everyone around him....

Peace~
linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[LawnDart21 0]

Thank you, I love reading rants first thing in the morning..........lol

Lets all bitch about something that bothers me!

--
My other ride is a RESERVE.

[bozo 0]

If we can get the boozy bozo's to take a back seat we'll have something like what you describe .....
--------------------------------------------------------------

Hey now just a darn minute ! Lets lay off the boozy bozos .

bozo

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[Amazon 7]

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Yes, it can be done. I believe a strong S&TA is a major key...along with the DZO. A thought just hit me...how often do you see that the DZ's personality takes on that of the DZO?

GAWD that is soooooooooo true. When greed rules the DZ the worker bees follow.

[ChrisL 2]

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All skydivers deserve respect.

Not

__

My mighty steed

[BillyVance 34]

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You forgot 3 types:

Just Like School:
You only hang around and recruit those like you, ie: we are too cool.... To join, you have to dress the same, act the same and have no personal opinions for yourself - only those of the ring leader/s.

Know it All:
You have done an Airspeed Camp and you know everything and will not listen to anyone else as your Type A personality will not allow you to.

Wannabe:
You think your goals and needs come before anyone else - so long as you can get a team together and you think you are going to do well, no matter what - if someone that gives 100% time, energy, learning and committment, you will get rid of them and replace them with somone "who in your opinion skydives better" who you can control, therefore ignoring the whole skydiving ethic so you can achieve that "glory".

Liz

Then there's the:

Screw everybody else for my own benefit types like Ben and Cary in Cedartown. At least USPA did the right thing by revoking their memberships for life.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Trae 1]

in rep 2 'I wouldn't think of shooting the messenger, but I would consider asking him to go review all the outlandishly negative posts he has made these last few weeks. '

Review my negative posts?
Have you read all my posts? I feel honoured. If they are ALL negative as you suggest then you may have a point ....however ...... I'm used to people who call others negative when they themselves are the ones who should be a having a little look in the mirror. Loopy ...aint it?
I find YOUR replies to be apologetic & a bit more than pointless actually.
As for the tasks you assign to me eg"Then I think you need to go through the fatality database, and show exactly where and how the kind of people you're talking about affected the outcome."

....mmm... I just might do that.
Negative? Why ? For showing up negative behaviour.?

I feel by doing this I can drag some of it into the light of day where it will fizzle and disappear in a vampiric puff of smoke.

Any-one who takes on the 'baddies' does run the risk of being tarred wit' da same brush.

Cheers for the more considered and mature replies

I personally know of a whole string of incidents and fatalities that I feel can be directly connected with 'boozy bozo' behaviour.

If you are not aware how this can happen then you have justified (to me ) why I've even bothered trying to SHARE.

Being aware that such things are possible may just help keep you from out of such harms way.

No offence meant 'Bozo' (Was that you picked me up off the ground that time?)

laterest