Is full face helmet an option??

[bigfall 0]

I am a student at a DZ in Indiana and have 22 jumps, I have a chance to get a full face helmet and was wondering if there is some kind of regulation against students using full face helmets.

STEP OUT AND FEEL THE RUSH!!!!!!!! LATER

STEP OUT AND FEEL THE RUSH!!!! LATER
SKYBOMB

[mailin 0]

I was able to use a full face prior to having my A, but each DZ is different - I'd ask them. I'm under the impression that there is no documented regulation regarding students using full face, but I could be wrong. Can't hurt to ask your instructors...


Jen

Arianna Frances

[tigra 0]

Regardless of whether or not you can use it now, you won't be a student forever. Is it a good deal, and does the helmet fit well?

[billvon 3,070]

>and was wondering if there is some kind of regulation against
>students using full face helmets.

I don't let my students use them, but every DZ is different. Ask your instructor. There's no regulation against it.

[riggerrob 643]

The real questions are:
Does it fit well?
Can you see your release and ripcord handles?
Does the visor fog up?
Can you open a fogged visor?
Does it impede your periferal vision?
Can you see well enough to land gracefully?
etc.

I have allowed a PFF Level 3 student to wear a full face helmet and he performed gracefully.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Im a new jumper but I thought I would respond , mostly because of RiggerRobs post. I tried my first factory diver out on jump 22, It had no face shield, so we thought it was a good transition. However , when about to jump I didnt tighten it enough, and while in freefall it was all over the place, the goggles (they were above my ears ) were fogged up and by the time I got under canopy I was disoriented since I fought the whole freefall. I continued to fight and barely made it back to the DZ. When I did get back I was not thinking properly and was still fighting the helmet, I flared at approx 20 to 25 feet because I could not see well, and stalled my canopy, helmet popped off my head, passed out , the whole works. I had some pretty decent injurys related to flaring so high. My advice, talk to your instructor, make sure its something you wont have any issues with. I had no periphal vision on the factory diver. There were many things that happened to cause my incident. I had a learning experience and although I didnt walk away un-harmed I did not have to get life flighted out. Please think and talk with people who know the ramifications and outcomes from new gear.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[bigfall 0]

excellent question now that you mention it my handles are pretty high on my rig and no I probably
wont be able to look down and see my handles so I think an open face helmet is probably the better way to go.

Thanks Jerry

STEP OUT AND FEEL THE RUSH!!!! LATER

STEP OUT AND FEEL THE RUSH!!!! LATER
SKYBOMB

[mailin 0]

I can't see my handles in free fall or under canopy - buts its not because of the helmet. So I take extra time to practice my EPs by feeling for the handles.

A full face helmet is good - if jumping with other people it can protect you from a kick in the face or funneled exits much better than an open face. Its also better insulation during cold weather jumps.

I have both an open face and full face and still jump 80% of the time with the full face cause I like to do RW and I can think of 2 instances where I would have had a broken nose without the face shield. Chances are your first jumps are going to be RW and a full face would be the best option. Obviously get one that fits though - if your fighting it in free fall or under canopy its because you didn't get one that fit. Opening up the face shield under canopy can eliminate the 'fog up' and get all distracted stuff mentioned earlier.


Jen

Arianna Frances

[stratostar 5]

And you can't hear shit in them.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[stratostar 5]

I have both an open face and full face and still jump 80% of the time with the full face cause I like to do RW and I can think of 2 instances where I would have had a broken nose without the face shield. Chances are your first jumps are going to be RW and a full face would be the best option (quote)

I disagree,
We've been doing combat RW for years with out full face helmits or AAD's, if your getting the shit kicked out of you then maybe you should jump with a little less combat and a little more care...

(Edit to add)
We all as fun jumpers don't need to be or try to be Airspeed, that's why they call it FUN JUMPING, play safe....

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[rehmwa 2]

I have three helmuts:

frap hat (not really a 'helmet' but it's a place to put the pro-track and it keeps the ears warm) - it hasn't been out in nearly 2 years - but I keep it for sentimental reasons.

'freefly' helmut - mindwarp. VERY NICE, but the Pro-track retention is poorly designed, always was. At least mine is the internal mount rather than that 'tacked on' clip thing they tried for a couple years.

and a full face

I didn't like the idea of full faces --- until I actually wore one. Other than looking at my chest, it's the best for visibility and protection. it was very surprising - and flipping up the visor for canopy flying is very nice to cool off. It's important to wear correctly, though, the chin of the helmut is 'up' more than I thought. It's also much less stuffy than I thought it would be.

Still, I wear the FF helmut to freefly because I like the wind. for 4-way, the full face is fine as I want to concentrate more.

If it fits nice and is a good brand, get one. You don't have to wear it RIGHT NOW, just because you have it. But someday you might want to spin a gazillion points and not pass out when your teammate kicks your chin.......


EDIT: Aside to stratostar's comment

Quote

We've been doing combat RW for years with out full face helmits or AAD's, if you're getting the shit kicked out of you then maybe you should jump with a little less combat and a little more care...

I find most "combat RW" is really just sloppy RW and there's not much power, just flailing FWIW. Been there, done that, seen that. So yes, time to learn control. Totally agree.

However, when it's time to add power for real and start cutting the blocks tight, the learning process can result in some powerful hits, even the top teams have this happen (did you see Ian's broken arm video? That team has loads of control, but it still happens.). There a full face is a good thing. As far as AAD's, well have one if you like, but it's not to be relied on nor to plan on it to save you - keeping control and having a good helmut is better. So is having talented teammates....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[slug 1]

Quote

I am a student at a DZ in Indiana and have 22 jumps, I have a chance to get a full face helmet and was wondering if there is some kind of regulation against students using full face helmets.

STEP OUT AND FEEL THE RUSH!!!!!!!! LATER

If you want to buy the helmet as a investment imo go ahead, but at your experience level you may just be adding another variable that can add to a chain of events that can get you hurt.

Np Offence intended, but it's going to be a while before you have to worry about cranking mega points on a 4 way team and combat RW is definatly a option.

You may want to do a search on the topic of Full face helmets in DZ.com their pro's and cons have been discussed in the past.

BTW make sure the FFH comes with a gear bag so it does't get scratched up. You also need to consider the color of the FFH & gear bag so it will match the rest of your rig when you get one
R.I.P.

[billvon 3,070]

>even the top teams have this happen . . .

Yes, but one of the reasons it _does_ happen is that people are wearing full face helmets so it's OK. If getting kicked in the face meant that Airspeed occasionally lost a few points per round, you can be damn sure they would stop kicking each other in the face.

[stratostar 5]

That and they are wearing AAD's.
Take away both and let's see how many teeth get knocked out and how many broken noses they have,
I'll bet they would skydive like they did before they became cool.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

That and they are wearing AAD's.
Take away both and let's see how many teeth get knocked out and how many broken noses they have,
I'll bet they would skydive like they did before they became cool.

~

Have you actually looked at the no-pull accident statistics from pre-AAD days when people were skydiving "like they did before they became cool"?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

And you can't hear shit in them.

~

It's even quieter if you wear earplugs too.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[bct110 0]

Quote

I can't see my handles in free fall or under canopy - buts its not because of the helmet. So I take extra time to practice my EPs by feeling for the handles.

I actually get a better field of vision with my Oxygn than I do w/ my FF and Camera helmet because the frames of the Wiley X's I wear. Good point about EPs, you have recognized a problem/weakness (real or perceived) and have done extra training to compensate.

When I was a student I thought full faces were "cool" but I haven't worn mine in over 100 jumps. I figured out I like the wind on my face.

What ever you choose, make gear changes slowly as each time you change something, you need time to adjust to the changes. Get used to one piece of gear before you start jumping the next.

As for this particular case, Talk to your instructors, they know the policies of your DZ. Even if you can't, your only 3 jumps away from your A and then you can jump whatever helmet you want. My suggestion would be to demo/borrow one of the same size/model (or, better yet, the actual one) to see if you like it.
Be Safe, Blue Skies,

Brad

[stratostar 5]

I didn't say no one bounced.
Just worked real hard to not get the shit kicked out of you, so as to not go in or lose teeth ect.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

I didn't say no one bounced.
Just worked real hard to not get the shit kicked out of you, so as to not go in or lose teeth ect.

~

Well, you brought up AADs as an analogy. In 1989 there were 25 no/low pull fatalities in the USA. In 1999 there were 2. The intervening 10 years saw the widespread acceptance of the CYPRES. So your argument doesn't seem to hold water. No/low pulls have gone from being the leading cause of death to an also-ran.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[stratostar 5]

So your argument doesn't seem to hold water (quote)

Maybe, but I think you missed the the point, in that same ten years, me and many others didn't use one.
(for the record I just put one in last year for the first time) We flew different then, because we had to pull a handle or go in, today many people depend on these things to save them and then get careless in the air, after all they have a full face helmit and an aad so it don't matter if they get the shit kicked out of them, there's those things to save them.
Seen it way to many times.
I NOT trying to get in a pissing contest with you!
However I feel it is a valid point, even if you think it don't hold water.
Have a great and safe weekend!

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[slug 1]

Hi SS

I'm with you

Some people have "lived" the history of skydiving and base their opinions on their experience.

Other folks have a shorter history to base their opinions on. Their emperical review of the fatalities "back in the day" is based on the info provided in the reports which don't tell the whole story. ie lack altimeters, audio and visual, surplus gear one size fits all, 7500' sop for exit altitude, 1.5 shot capewells, 300 jumps was a lot, Lower opening & cutaway altitude etc.

The avg number of fatalities/yr in US skydiving has stayed the same for the last 30 yr's, the cause of the fatalities has changed. IMO that says the weak point is the Human factor.

A person with 22 jumps wearing a FFH is like a kid playing T-ball wearing a glove while batting. The pro's do it so the kids want to look cool like their hero's.

R.I.P.

R.I.P

[Amazon 7]

Hope you are not claustrophobic

[kallend 2,106]

Quote

Hi SS

I'm with you

Some people have "lived" the history of skydiving and base their opinions on their experience.

Other folks have a shorter history to base their opinions on. Their emperical review of the fatalities "back in the day" is based on the info provided in the reports which don't tell the whole story. ie lack altimeters, audio and visual, surplus gear one size fits all, 7500' sop for exit altitude, 1.5 shot capewells, 300 jumps was a lot, Lower opening & cutaway altitude etc.

The avg number of fatalities/yr in US skydiving has stayed the same for the last 30 yr's, the cause of the fatalities has changed. IMO that says the weak point is the Human factor.

A person with 22 jumps wearing a FFH is like a kid playing T-ball wearing a glove while batting. The pro's do it so the kids want to look cool like their hero's.

R.I.P.

R.I.P

How many jumpers were using Capewells in 1989, when there were 25 no/low pull fatalities in the US out of 16,000 UPSA members? I seem to recall the wrist altimeter had also been invented by 1989.

10 years later the number of jumpers had doubled and the number of no/low fatalities had dropped by a factor of 12, a reduction in the odds of dying from this cause of 25 times.

Experts, based on "experience" used to tell us the Earth was flat and was the center of the universe. It took a certain amount of analysis to show that they were wrong.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[slug 1]

Hi John

Sorry I'm not a expert just a old fart.

Skydiving was going on for a long time before 1989, my comments were based on a larger database than 15 yr's more like 37 yr's and take into account, changes in equipment training etc.

Sorry I don't have total recall but IMO your number of 25 fatalities due to no pull/low pull doesn't sound right. But I won't argue with you about the point. I agree that we disagree, can you do the same?

Sometimes jumpers make poor choices of wquipment because "everyone else is doing it". Using a lead fishing weight on the end of ripcords was a case in point. The idear prevented some lost ripcords but during a mal added a snagging possiability with tragic results.

IMO students/low time jumpers using full face helmets is a bad idea but a great fashion statement.
If it ends up being a problem they do have a cypres which will only help them in Free fall.

Over and out the debate is over. People are going to do what they want to do. Thats why the number of fatalities/yr hasn't changed except last yr
R.I.P.

[ripcord4 0]

Buy a ProTec for use while a student. If/when you feel comfortable and your dz allows its use, start looking for a full face. Borrow one or two to see if you might like one first, though. They are expensive to leave in the closet. ProTecs are a good helmet, light weight and better at shock absorbing than some of the "cool" carbon fiber helmets. Cost much less, too.