Pilot Chute Opinions

[Phillbo 11]

I am curious if a colapsible pilot chute is really needed on a Silhouette 210 ?

I'm building a rig and thinking I can save a couple bucks now while I learn to really ring out the 210.

[billvon 2,991]

>I am curious if a colapsible pilot chute is really needed on a Silhouette 210 ?

I certainly noticed the difference on my PD190 loaded about 1 to 1.

[FrogNog 1]

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>I am curious if a colapsible pilot chute is really needed on a Silhouette 210 ?

I certainly noticed the difference on my PD190 loaded about 1 to 1.

I don't have the experience with non-collapsible pilot chutes to know if I could feel the difference. Based on theory and what I have heard, the difference would probably be feelable, but there should not be any reason you need a collapsible pilot chute.

Based on the cost of collapsible vs. non-collapsible PCs and a theoretical replacement schedule of once every 100 jumps, this could be a difference of nearly $.50 per jump.

Where I heard collapsible PCs are necessary is high performance canopies, where I assume the extra drag could make them fly funny. I don't think Silhouette 210 falls into that category. [:D]

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[livendive 8]

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I am curious if a colapsible pilot chute is really needed on a Silhouette 210 ?

I'm building a rig and thinking I can save a couple bucks now while I learn to really ring out the 210.

I'd certainly get one, as the difference is significant. Also, when you've wrung out the 210 and get something smaller, the PC stays with the rig (as opposed to the canopy).

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

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Based on the cost of collapsible vs. non-collapsible PCs and a theoretical replacement schedule of once every 100 jumps, this could be a difference of nearly $.50 per jump.

The problem with this math is the "theoretical replacement schedule." Why in the world would a person replace their pilot chute every 100 jumps?

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Where I heard collapsible PCs are necessary is high performance canopies, where I assume the extra drag could make them fly funny. I don't think Silhouette 210 falls into that category. [:D]

Collapsible PCs help eke some performance out of just about any canopy. Given identical canopies & wingloadings and a bad spot over a forest, who do you think has a better chance of clearing the treeline, a jumper with a collapsible PC or one with a non-collapsible PC?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[AggieDave 6]

Also remember that over time, a collapsable PC produces less wear on the bridle attatchment point on the canopy.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 2,991]

>Based on the cost of collapsible vs. non-collapsible PCs and a
> theoretical replacement schedule of once every 100 jumps, this
> could be a difference of nearly $.50 per jump.

You only have to replace it if it's a non-collapsible. Collapsible PC's last around 500 jumps without maintenance, and can last over 1000 with minor maintenance (replacement of kill line etc.)

[Nutz 0]

I found that my openings were much better once I got a collapsible.

"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

[Ruffles 0]

When I bought my rig (Silhouette 210), it had no kill line. I bought a new container, and with it, a regular kill-line. I totally noticed a huge difference in speed (way faster). My loading is 1.1 to 1; if you're anywhere near there, I can't imagine you won't notice a major difference too. Just don't forget to cock the damn thing when you pack (I noticed it seems to function better when its cocked).:)

.

[thelem 0]

Even if a colapable pilot chute does make the 210 a bit higher performance, does it really matter? For most people a 210 is a canopy for learning some canopy skills on, and is never going to be high performance.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is what I see as the main downside of colapsable pilot chutes, especially for new jumpers, which is that if you forget to cock it you are likely to get a pilot chute in tow. At the very least that means a reserve repack and a crate of beer, but it could also mean a new freebag and handles or even (and I admit its unlikely) a serious accident.

[Phillbo 11]

Sounds like I'll be best off to go with the collapsible and remeber to cock it :)

Thanks.

[billvon 2,991]

>Even if a colapable pilot chute does make the 210 a bit higher
>performance, does it really matter?

Yes!! It is MUCH safer to get a collapsible for more performance than to downsize. If you want a given level of performance, you're a lot better off under a 210 with a collapsible than under a 190 with a normal PC.

[Phillbo 11]

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>Even if a colapable pilot chute does make the 210 a bit higher
>performance, does it really matter?

Yes!! It is MUCH safer to get a collapsible for more performance than to downsize. If you want a given level of performance, you're a lot better off under a 210 with a collapsible than under a 190 with a normal PC.

I'm a wuss.. I have no plans to down size for quite a while... I'm sure a 210 will scare me enough , I mean teach me respect

[FrogNog 1]

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>Based on the cost of collapsible vs. non-collapsible PCs and a
> theoretical replacement schedule of once every 100 jumps, this
> could be a difference of nearly $.50 per jump.

You only have to replace it if it's a non-collapsible. Collapsible PC's last around 500 jumps without maintenance, and can last over 1000 with minor maintenance (replacement of kill line etc.)

Ah. I had heard pilot chutes have a tendency to wear out, or go out of trim, or do other bad things and stop doing their job well. Many of the failure modes made no sense to me:
* topskin becomes more permeable. Well, I thought permeability didn't make much of a difference to the decelerative effect of a round parachute. Not enough to stop being able to pull the pin and lift the bag, anyway.
* kill line shrinks. Yup, that's why people check the kill line length and replace the kill line when it shrinks. No need to replace the entire PC, though, is there?
* PC goes out of trim, most noticeable by the 100 bridle twists when you go to pack it. This sounds like a "wait until you see it, then replace it" failure, not a "weak deployments / no pin-pulls sneak up on you" failure. And from some things I read recently, seems like a PC constructed properly with the tapes on the bias shouldn't do this unless it gets damaged by something else.

But, most of this would seem to apply to non-collapsible PCs as well. So, why does anyone replace a PC? Hmm, maybe I need to go search old posts....

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[billvon 2,991]

>But, most of this would seem to apply to non-collapsible PCs as well.

They do. Non-collapsibles don't wear out faster; if anything they last longer. But they must be replaced pretty quickly because people downsize to a canopy that requires a collapsible pretty quickly nowadays.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

As did I under my old Sabre 230.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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One thing that hasn't been mentioned is what I see as the main downside of colapsable pilot chutes, especially for new jumpers, which is that if you forget to cock it you are likely to get a pilot chute in tow. At the very least that means a reserve repack and a crate of beer, but it could also mean a new freebag and handles or even (and I admit its unlikely) a serious accident.

Or maybe they should be taught early on to always check their PC so it becomes a natural part of their gear check routine or packing routine. A student will learn a good gear check from their JM - if they see the JM checking their PC on every jump, the student will realize this is an important part of mal prevention.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[skydivejersey 0]

Icarus has a view on the subject here....

http://www.icaruscanopies.com/maintenance.htm

[mfrese 0]

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Or maybe they should be taught early on to always check their PC so it becomes a natural part of their gear check routine or packing routine. A student will learn a good gear check from their JM - if they see the JM checking their PC on every jump, the student will realize this is an important part of mal prevention.

I've posted about this in another thread on here, but I'll repeat it: I continue to be surprised that people are so worried about forgetting to cock their kill-line PC. If you're packing for yourself, you can't put the canopy in the bag without noticing whether it's cocked or not (if you have even the slightest clue how the system actually works, that is); if you are using a packer, you had better be doing a gear check prior to donning the rig (and should probably be getting a gear check from someone else as well).

I've been using a kill-line PC since I had about 50 jumps, and I've never gotten on the plane with it uncocked...I've actually packed it (once!)without cocking it, but my own gear check caught that before it became a problem. Have a process and use it every time...

Doctor I ain't gonna die,
Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash

[skydivejersey 0]

Not all cpc's have a window tho!

[mfrese 0]

That's interesting...I've never seen a kill-line type made without a window, and of course, with a bungee, it's not necessary.

I guess my question would be why on earth would you want to use a collapsible pilot chute if you can't check it to make sure it's cocked without having to unpack the PC?

Doctor I ain't gonna die,
Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash

[billvon 2,991]

>I guess my question would be why on earth would you want to use a
> collapsible pilot chute if you can't check it to make sure it's cocked
> without having to unpack the PC?

Same reason you have a main container without windows to make sure you stowed the lines. Same reason there's no window in the D-bag to make sure you packed your main correctly. If you don't forget to do any of those things you don't need any windows. None of my collapsibles have windows and I've never forgotten to cock the PC, finish packing my main before putting it in the bag, or stow the lines.

Windows are helpful for people starting out with new collapsibles, since they are adding a new step to the packing process. But with so many new jumpers using a collapsible on their first rig, the importance of those windows has declined.

[Phillbo 11]

I sent a note to PD but maybe someone here has the answer, how do you size the PC ?

[tattoojeff 0]

to tell you the truth ive never even seen a non collapsable p/c. in the almost 3 years in the sport. there must be a reason for that.

[kosanke 0]

generally, the container manufacture dictates the size depending on the bag and canopy. size, weight, and a number of other issues are involved. what pd might recommend might be different than the rig manufacture. contact both for their recommendations. hope this helps.