RhondaLea 4 #26 July 12, 2005 Quotewhy would anyone not want to wear one? Historical perspective. That's just one link of hundreds. Google rec.skydiving for AAD + mandatory San Diego or Buzz SB 179 or Michael Hawkes Kevin O'Connell Ken and Barbie Set the cutoff for 1999. But be warned, the sheer volume of posts will make you wish you'd never asked. rl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #27 July 12, 2005 QuoteAs a relatively newbie to the sport, why would anyone not want to wear one? Just curious D They will give you a lot of reasons but there is only on real reason: $$$$$$$$$$$$ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 38 #28 July 12, 2005 That's definitely a consideration. I have 6 rigs (all bought VERY cheap), all but one of which these days are used only for CRW.... No way do I have the cash to throw AAD's in them all... W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #29 July 13, 2005 QuoteThey will give you a lot of reasons but there is only on real reason: $$$$$$$$$$$$ I know some people that are genuinely afraid of AADs. These are people that can afford them, but don't want to jump them. One was a guy that had an FXC misfire on him at high altitude.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #30 July 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteThey will give you a lot of reasons but there is only on real reason: $$$$$$$$$$$$ I know some people that are genuinely afraid of AADs. These are people that can afford them, but don't want to jump them. One was a guy that had an FXC misfire on him at high altitude. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I have seen one FXC 12000 mis-fire at 7,000', however, the vast majority of FXC "mis-fires" occurred below 2,500'. Now a few people complain about their Cypri "mis-firing" below 1500'. Hah! Hah! Hah! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btucker 0 #31 July 14, 2005 In countries or Dzs that _enforce_ compulsory AAD’s: What do people do while they are being serviced? I had three rigs so when one of my AAD's was away for 10weeks it was not an issue. If I had only one AAD and rig being grounded for 10 weeks is a big issue! Blues Benno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverton 0 #32 July 14, 2005 QuoteQuoteThey will give you a lot of reasons but there is only on real reason: $$$$$$$$$$$$ I know some people that are genuinely afraid of AADs. These are people that can afford them, but don't want to jump them. One was a guy that had an FXC misfire on him at high altitude. Ask a little further why they do not have a cypres and in the end they will admit it's $$$$ There have been a lot of premature reserve openings on rigs without AAD's. According to this jumping with a reserve is dangerous!! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit, Especially when you are jumping a sport rig Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #33 July 14, 2005 QuoteIn countries or Dzs that _enforce_ compulsory AAD’s: What do people do while they are being serviced? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The smart ones schedule AAD maintenance during the rainy/snowy season. "Less intelligent" skydivers leave it until the week before the big boogie, then they panic when told their Cypres has to make a pilgrimage to the factory of its birth and either pay rocket mail or scramble to borrow a Cypres or a Cypres-equipped rig. A few of the wiser riggers keep a spare (10 or 11 year old) Cypres available for rent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mostly_Harmless 0 #34 July 14, 2005 How long does it normally take for the cypress 4 year check up in the USA (aka downtime)?_________________________________________ www.myspace.com/termvelocity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 4 #35 July 14, 2005 Quote Ask a little further why they do not have a cypres and in the end they will admit it's $$$$ That's just not true in all cases, no matter how many times you repeat it. I know people for whom money is not an issue. Their reasons for not having a CYPRES are not cost-related. QuoteThere have been a lot of premature reserve openings on rigs without AAD's. According to this jumping with a reserve is dangerous!! Any base jumper could tell you that. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RMURRAY 1 #36 July 14, 2005 QuoteAs a relatively newbie to the sport, why would anyone not want to wear one? Just curious D I pay for every jump I make - all 4 way team jumps - I cannot afford an AAD at the moment. If I could afford one, I'd rather reline my main or blow it on tunnel time...the bottom line is it should be optional - most people have them anyway. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zep 0 #37 July 14, 2005 QuoteHow long does it normally take for the cypress 4 year check up in the USA (aka downtime)? No idea I'm in Europe, Here It's about 4 weeks or less Most riggers here have spare units to hire at a reasonable price. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #38 July 15, 2005 QuoteAADs are mandatory for Canadian students until they earn an A Certificate. After that AADs are a matter of DZ policy. For example, AADs are required at every DZ in Quebec. At Pitt Meadows, all staff members wear AADs and most of the licensed jumpers do too. At the last CSPA Annual General Meeting, the Technical and Safety Committee was tasked with drawing up a schedule to make AADs mandatory at all Canadian DZs. It will take another 3 to 5 to 8 years for the schedule to take affect, but the bottom line is: AADs may not be required for Canadians NOW, but they will be in a few more years. C.S.P.A can make rules for C.S.P.A dropzones only, not all dropzones in Canada are singularily C.S.P.A affiliated, therefore will not be affected. What about a dropzone that has both C.S.P.A and U.S.P.A group memberships? Can a U.S.P.A licensed jumper jump at such a DZ without an AAD but a C.S.P.A licensed jumper not? -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 174fps 1 #39 July 15, 2005 Quote C.S.P.A can make rules for C.S.P.A dropzones only, not all dropzones in Canada are singularily C.S.P.A affiliated, therefore will not be affected. What about a dropzone that has both C.S.P.A and U.S.P.A group memberships? Can a U.S.P.A licensed jumper jump at such a DZ without an AAD but a C.S.P.A licensed jumper not? Depends on what Transport Canada does, due to the recent inquiries there is pressure for them to bring in some kind of regulation. If TC says all DZs must match or exceed CSPA BSRs and CSPA puts mandatory AADs in the BSRs then it will affect all jumpers. Currently the BSRs state that you must have an AAD up till you reach solo status. Andrew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Airman1270 0 #40 July 16, 2005 QuoteAs a relatively newbie to the sport, why would anyone not want to wear one?... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Several reasons. Some of us got into the sport before AAD's became ubiquitous and are quite comfortable jumping without them. Add to this the expense, the maintenance hassles, the possibility of a misfire at an inopportune moment, and the fact that the manufacturer cannot guarantee its reliability after as few as a dozen years. One of the biggest problems I've seen with AAD's is the fact that many people who use them become afraid to jump without one. On a spiritual note, I place my safety in the hands of the same God who knows when a sparrow falls, and trust Him with my ultimate fate. Not that something couldn't happen, of course. I'm not saying I would never use an AAD, but to date it hasn't become an issue. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumperconway 0 #41 July 20, 2005 I know some people that are genuinely afraid of AADs. These are people that can afford them, but don't want to jump them. One was a guy that had an FXC misfire on him at high altitude. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I have seen one FXC 12000 mis-fire at 7,000', however, the vast majority of FXC "mis-fires" occurred below 2,500'. Now a few people complain about their Cypri "mis-firing" below 1500'. Hah! Hah! Hah! Personally, I have 2 rigs, one with a cypres and one without. How many legitamate cypres misfires have there been? I wouldn't consider jumping with an FXC or what ever the Russian equivelant is with the same bad history of misfires! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mostly_Harmless 0 #34 July 14, 2005 How long does it normally take for the cypress 4 year check up in the USA (aka downtime)?_________________________________________ www.myspace.com/termvelocity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #35 July 14, 2005 Quote Ask a little further why they do not have a cypres and in the end they will admit it's $$$$ That's just not true in all cases, no matter how many times you repeat it. I know people for whom money is not an issue. Their reasons for not having a CYPRES are not cost-related. QuoteThere have been a lot of premature reserve openings on rigs without AAD's. According to this jumping with a reserve is dangerous!! Any base jumper could tell you that. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #36 July 14, 2005 QuoteAs a relatively newbie to the sport, why would anyone not want to wear one? Just curious D I pay for every jump I make - all 4 way team jumps - I cannot afford an AAD at the moment. If I could afford one, I'd rather reline my main or blow it on tunnel time...the bottom line is it should be optional - most people have them anyway. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zep 0 #37 July 14, 2005 QuoteHow long does it normally take for the cypress 4 year check up in the USA (aka downtime)? No idea I'm in Europe, Here It's about 4 weeks or less Most riggers here have spare units to hire at a reasonable price. Gone fishing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #38 July 15, 2005 QuoteAADs are mandatory for Canadian students until they earn an A Certificate. After that AADs are a matter of DZ policy. For example, AADs are required at every DZ in Quebec. At Pitt Meadows, all staff members wear AADs and most of the licensed jumpers do too. At the last CSPA Annual General Meeting, the Technical and Safety Committee was tasked with drawing up a schedule to make AADs mandatory at all Canadian DZs. It will take another 3 to 5 to 8 years for the schedule to take affect, but the bottom line is: AADs may not be required for Canadians NOW, but they will be in a few more years. C.S.P.A can make rules for C.S.P.A dropzones only, not all dropzones in Canada are singularily C.S.P.A affiliated, therefore will not be affected. What about a dropzone that has both C.S.P.A and U.S.P.A group memberships? Can a U.S.P.A licensed jumper jump at such a DZ without an AAD but a C.S.P.A licensed jumper not? -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
174fps 1 #39 July 15, 2005 Quote C.S.P.A can make rules for C.S.P.A dropzones only, not all dropzones in Canada are singularily C.S.P.A affiliated, therefore will not be affected. What about a dropzone that has both C.S.P.A and U.S.P.A group memberships? Can a U.S.P.A licensed jumper jump at such a DZ without an AAD but a C.S.P.A licensed jumper not? Depends on what Transport Canada does, due to the recent inquiries there is pressure for them to bring in some kind of regulation. If TC says all DZs must match or exceed CSPA BSRs and CSPA puts mandatory AADs in the BSRs then it will affect all jumpers. Currently the BSRs state that you must have an AAD up till you reach solo status. Andrew Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airman1270 0 #40 July 16, 2005 QuoteAs a relatively newbie to the sport, why would anyone not want to wear one?... _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Several reasons. Some of us got into the sport before AAD's became ubiquitous and are quite comfortable jumping without them. Add to this the expense, the maintenance hassles, the possibility of a misfire at an inopportune moment, and the fact that the manufacturer cannot guarantee its reliability after as few as a dozen years. One of the biggest problems I've seen with AAD's is the fact that many people who use them become afraid to jump without one. On a spiritual note, I place my safety in the hands of the same God who knows when a sparrow falls, and trust Him with my ultimate fate. Not that something couldn't happen, of course. I'm not saying I would never use an AAD, but to date it hasn't become an issue. Cheers, Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumperconway 0 #41 July 20, 2005 I know some people that are genuinely afraid of AADs. These are people that can afford them, but don't want to jump them. One was a guy that had an FXC misfire on him at high altitude. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I have seen one FXC 12000 mis-fire at 7,000', however, the vast majority of FXC "mis-fires" occurred below 2,500'. Now a few people complain about their Cypri "mis-firing" below 1500'. Hah! Hah! Hah! Personally, I have 2 rigs, one with a cypres and one without. How many legitamate cypres misfires have there been? I wouldn't consider jumping with an FXC or what ever the Russian equivelant is with the same bad history of misfires! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #41 July 20, 2005 I know some people that are genuinely afraid of AADs. These are people that can afford them, but don't want to jump them. One was a guy that had an FXC misfire on him at high altitude. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I have seen one FXC 12000 mis-fire at 7,000', however, the vast majority of FXC "mis-fires" occurred below 2,500'. Now a few people complain about their Cypri "mis-firing" below 1500'. Hah! Hah! Hah! Personally, I have 2 rigs, one with a cypres and one without. How many legitamate cypres misfires have there been? I wouldn't consider jumping with an FXC or what ever the Russian equivelant is with the same bad history of misfires! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aftermid 0 #42 July 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteFrance an Spain are two. how many more? Add Belgium too. AAD's became mandatory in Belgium in the very same year that a Belgian company released a new AAD product Even for CRW? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
