Nightingale 0 #1 April 12, 2004 What level should someone be before they jump with a camera? I'm not talking about being a "camera flyer", but just taking a video camera along on your own jump to record your perspective. **this is just a curious question. I'm not considering doing it at this time** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #2 April 12, 2004 Quote**this is just a curious question. I'm not considering doing it at this time** Hah. Good disclaimer. I was getting all set to pull you aside and assist you in the removal of your head from your nether regions.... O.K., so explain how this is different than "jumping" a camera? I've heard 200- 300. I think it's a long ways off for me, so I really am not sure. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #3 April 12, 2004 what I meant was not using a camera suit, not filming other jumpers and worrying about framing and the like. just wearing a camera to record your own jumps. I've noticed a lot of the freeflyers at Elsinore have little mini-DV cameras, which is what prompted the question. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #4 April 12, 2004 Its generally reccommened to have at least 200 jumps and be skilled at what ever discipline you want to use the camera on. Even if it is intended to be a flight recorder, it quickly out grows that because watching the video playback people notice thing (or lack of things like people in frame) and try to fix it on the next jump. It soon becomes a full blown videographer activity.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
verticalflyer 11 #5 April 12, 2004 Being a guy we tend to think we are ready for things way before we actuallu are. However I started at 179 jump in Spain adn had the delights of a mal on the very first jump. Well at least I got it on camera, but the main point is I was right on the limit of my skill level at the time and the consequences of camera on my head needed to be thought about. Camera's of today tend to be much smaller which helps and usually people start with head mounts however the risk of snagging equipment and lines together is there. Having said that the modern camera helmets and containers are excellent and worth investing in for safety and durability. Since I started camera I find you rarely jump without it, and you need to put the jumps in to learn from the all the early jumps which can be poor. Obviously as your flying skills progress so your direction and control of the camera will progress. Ultimately aside from the jump numbers, which are their for a good reason, you have to ask yourself what if that or this happens how will I deal with it am I confident to deal enough to deal with it. If your not ready no worries go do some more jumps and keep saving the money. Obviously sound out the DZ camera person who does it for a living rather than the 220 jump cool n groovy with the minidv who says yeah no problem. Take sit slow you wont be Norman Kent, Patrick Passe or Leo Dickinson overnight but you'll have a lot of fun. Hope that helps. FraserDont just talk about it, Do it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #6 April 12, 2004 http://uspa.org/publications/SIM/2004SIM/section6.htm#68 There should be no distiction between when to start "fun" camera flying v "serious" camera flying -- it's all serious.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #7 April 12, 2004 Quote what I meant was... O.K., gotcha. You worried me there for a bit. I think wearing a camera whether it's to film your perspective or other bodies is something dangerous. I'm not one to listen to, though...so read Quade's response....and then read it again. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #8 April 12, 2004 >just wearing a camera to record your own jumps. 200 jumps _minimum._ Using disclaimers like "I'll only use it to film myself" doesn't really work. It's like saying "it's a really easy demo" - there are risky aspects to a demo that a thousand acres of outs won't negate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #9 April 12, 2004 lol. Again... I'm not going to do it. I was just curious. Like the birdman questions I've been asking, its filed away in the "maybe I'll try that someday very far from today" file. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #10 April 13, 2004 Out of curiosity, the BPA rules that flying a camera of any type for any purpose is a C Licence (200 jump) minimum at UK dropzones.*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #11 April 13, 2004 As a point of interest in Australia it is 100 jumps (C License) to jump with a camera. Several of my friends in the 100-200 jump range jump camera. I do not as yet but plan to reasonably soon. Probably arouind the 200 mark. CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #12 April 13, 2004 Paul is the type of person you want to seek out at your dropzone and discuss jumping with camera/cameras. He has made more than a handful of camera jumps and was smart enough to learn by the mistakes of others. jmo SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #13 April 13, 2004 I've just bought my camera and I'm waiting for the Helemt and box. by the time i jump it I'll have at least 260 jumps, and feel berely compettantr to start learning. Learning will entail annoyig the shit out of our top camera guy and hassleing him to go for a jump with me to help with body postions and framing and stuffYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #14 April 13, 2004 QuoteWhat level should someone be before they jump with a camera?Quote The critical level isn't numbers of jumps, it's skill. There's a big difference between a thousand jumps and a hundred jumps ten times. If your flying skills aren't entirely automatic, you would be advised to focus on them before putting a camera on your head. The people who can't get anyone to jump with them because they aren't very good, and figure that jumping camera will at least get them on the load, are inviting disaster. It is useful to have extensive camera skills as well before you jump camera. If you don't know the difference between a snapshot and a photograph, you would be advised to leave camera to someone who does. If you are aware of lighting and framing and composition without giving it conscious thought AND can maintain your relative position and heading reflexively AND have your deployment and canopy procedures WIRED, you may be ready to jump camera. Be advised that on a camera jump your likelihood of injury or death is an order of magnitude greater than on a fun jump. It is not just another skydive. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingarab 0 #15 April 13, 2004 Unlike most people, i started jumping at 100 jumps and have never quit it. However, I did take steps before my hundredth jump in order to prepare. First, I attached the DBox to my helmet and jumped with it empty for about 10 jumps to get the feel for the lines near it etc... Once I was comfortable, I put the camera in it and did not try to focus on anything for about 50 jumps. No dot on goggles, no ring site, just fly and film. After the 50 jumps I went to the dot on my goggles and tried to get target center framed. Once that was done, I moved on to a ring site and now fly a top still and side vid. The only problems I have ever encountered is when I put my chest strap too tight which caused my lines to be a little too close to the side mount. This sport is not as cut and dry as we would like to think in regards to jump #'s being the answer. The best way to know if you are ready is to have someone with great camera skills and flying skills go up with you and see how you fly and how stable you are. A great jumper with 100 jumps can easily fly camera..while a shitty jumper at 200 jumps should be no where near a camera mount. Hope this helps..Sincerely, FlyingArab www.flyingarab.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #16 April 13, 2004 >A great jumper with 100 jumps can easily fly camera..while a shitty jumper at 200 jumps should be no where near a camera mount. The issue is everyone thinks they are that great jumper. Guess what? Every DZ might have one person like that. And that might is a big might... If you think you are that great flyer.. you probally are'nt.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kaerock 1 #17 April 13, 2004 Bingo. This is why it helps to have mentors at the DZ. Experienced people should offer help and suggestions to newer folks. Also, it's the responsibility of newbies to ask tons and tons of questions from as many people as they can and find out who is good for specific things (i.e. swooping, freefly, camera). It's too bad that people feel like they know it all, even when they have x-thousand jumps, we should never give up being a student just because we finished AFF. -Rory QuoteUnlike most people, i started jumping at 100 jumps and have never quit it. However, I did take steps before my hundredth jump in order to prepare. First, I attached the DBox to my helmet and jumped with it empty for about 10 jumps to get the feel for the lines near it etc... Once I was comfortable, I put the camera in it and did not try to focus on anything for about 50 jumps. No dot on goggles, no ring site, just fly and film. After the 50 jumps I went to the dot on my goggles and tried to get target center framed. Once that was done, I moved on to a ring site and now fly a top still and side vid. The only problems I have ever encountered is when I put my chest strap too tight which caused my lines to be a little too close to the side mount. This sport is not as cut and dry as we would like to think in regards to jump #'s being the answer. The best way to know if you are ready is to have someone with great camera skills and flying skills go up with you and see how you fly and how stable you are. A great jumper with 100 jumps can easily fly camera..while a shitty jumper at 200 jumps should be no where near a camera mount. Hope this helps.. You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jiggs 0 #18 April 14, 2004 I am a bit hazy on our Op Regs (AUS) but as I recall it was 100 jumps to be able to wear ther camera and at 200 to film rel. Or it might have been 200 RW jumps to film tandems - I can't remember which. Min 200 is a good way to think - get advice and take it easy."Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masher 1 #19 April 14, 2004 C licence to jump a camera D licence to film AFF students-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #20 April 14, 2004 "I'm not talking about being a "camera flyer", but just taking a video camera along on your own jump to record your perspective." The problem is (not aimed at you Nightingale, more to the thread in general), there are many hazards associated with camera flying that have nothing to do with your "intent", and they start as soon as you manifest. You have to include camera prep time in your pre jump rituals, battery, film, tape checks for example. You may have to modify your cutaway drills. Do you know how to get rid of the helmet should it become snagged? Does your helmet even have a cutaway system? Many standard helmets designed for cameras don't have a single action system, for example. If you are filming your pals hopping on board, do you know how close you can get to hot stuff, or things that might chop you into little pieces. How is the helmet secured for take-off, eg if the plane aborts takeoff and has to slam on the brakes, you are probably secure in your seatbelt, but that 10 lb camera helmet makes a great pal bashing missile if its not fastened to something. On jump run, your pals are all getting pin checks, but you may be pre-occupied with checking that the camera is on etc. Hopefully the camera setup you are using is snaggaphoebic, but not all are, mindwarp/d-box setups for example. How will you react to a line snag? If you have a ring sight fitted will it impair your field of view, or affect your depth perception, does the ring sight compund any snagging risks? Are going to be using a wrist alti for altitude management, and have you considered adding an audible. Can you land consistently without biffing the camera? Once landed, don't let dubbing etc take precendence over packing, changing that closing loop and the rest of your gear checks. That said, modern equipment like Y2K's FF2 setup, a protrack and a wee lightweight camera can add to your enjoyment whilst minimising additional equipment/distraction based risks considerably.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BETO74 0 #21 April 14, 2004 This brings the question is about the licence you hold or the number of jumps I know people with 3.000 jumps and just the A license he does camera and is pretty good at ithttp://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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flyingarab 0 #15 April 13, 2004 Unlike most people, i started jumping at 100 jumps and have never quit it. However, I did take steps before my hundredth jump in order to prepare. First, I attached the DBox to my helmet and jumped with it empty for about 10 jumps to get the feel for the lines near it etc... Once I was comfortable, I put the camera in it and did not try to focus on anything for about 50 jumps. No dot on goggles, no ring site, just fly and film. After the 50 jumps I went to the dot on my goggles and tried to get target center framed. Once that was done, I moved on to a ring site and now fly a top still and side vid. The only problems I have ever encountered is when I put my chest strap too tight which caused my lines to be a little too close to the side mount. This sport is not as cut and dry as we would like to think in regards to jump #'s being the answer. The best way to know if you are ready is to have someone with great camera skills and flying skills go up with you and see how you fly and how stable you are. A great jumper with 100 jumps can easily fly camera..while a shitty jumper at 200 jumps should be no where near a camera mount. Hope this helps..Sincerely, FlyingArab www.flyingarab.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #16 April 13, 2004 >A great jumper with 100 jumps can easily fly camera..while a shitty jumper at 200 jumps should be no where near a camera mount. The issue is everyone thinks they are that great jumper. Guess what? Every DZ might have one person like that. And that might is a big might... If you think you are that great flyer.. you probally are'nt.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaerock 1 #17 April 13, 2004 Bingo. This is why it helps to have mentors at the DZ. Experienced people should offer help and suggestions to newer folks. Also, it's the responsibility of newbies to ask tons and tons of questions from as many people as they can and find out who is good for specific things (i.e. swooping, freefly, camera). It's too bad that people feel like they know it all, even when they have x-thousand jumps, we should never give up being a student just because we finished AFF. -Rory QuoteUnlike most people, i started jumping at 100 jumps and have never quit it. However, I did take steps before my hundredth jump in order to prepare. First, I attached the DBox to my helmet and jumped with it empty for about 10 jumps to get the feel for the lines near it etc... Once I was comfortable, I put the camera in it and did not try to focus on anything for about 50 jumps. No dot on goggles, no ring site, just fly and film. After the 50 jumps I went to the dot on my goggles and tried to get target center framed. Once that was done, I moved on to a ring site and now fly a top still and side vid. The only problems I have ever encountered is when I put my chest strap too tight which caused my lines to be a little too close to the side mount. This sport is not as cut and dry as we would like to think in regards to jump #'s being the answer. The best way to know if you are ready is to have someone with great camera skills and flying skills go up with you and see how you fly and how stable you are. A great jumper with 100 jumps can easily fly camera..while a shitty jumper at 200 jumps should be no where near a camera mount. Hope this helps.. You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jiggs 0 #18 April 14, 2004 I am a bit hazy on our Op Regs (AUS) but as I recall it was 100 jumps to be able to wear ther camera and at 200 to film rel. Or it might have been 200 RW jumps to film tandems - I can't remember which. Min 200 is a good way to think - get advice and take it easy."Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #19 April 14, 2004 C licence to jump a camera D licence to film AFF students-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #20 April 14, 2004 "I'm not talking about being a "camera flyer", but just taking a video camera along on your own jump to record your perspective." The problem is (not aimed at you Nightingale, more to the thread in general), there are many hazards associated with camera flying that have nothing to do with your "intent", and they start as soon as you manifest. You have to include camera prep time in your pre jump rituals, battery, film, tape checks for example. You may have to modify your cutaway drills. Do you know how to get rid of the helmet should it become snagged? Does your helmet even have a cutaway system? Many standard helmets designed for cameras don't have a single action system, for example. If you are filming your pals hopping on board, do you know how close you can get to hot stuff, or things that might chop you into little pieces. How is the helmet secured for take-off, eg if the plane aborts takeoff and has to slam on the brakes, you are probably secure in your seatbelt, but that 10 lb camera helmet makes a great pal bashing missile if its not fastened to something. On jump run, your pals are all getting pin checks, but you may be pre-occupied with checking that the camera is on etc. Hopefully the camera setup you are using is snaggaphoebic, but not all are, mindwarp/d-box setups for example. How will you react to a line snag? If you have a ring sight fitted will it impair your field of view, or affect your depth perception, does the ring sight compund any snagging risks? Are going to be using a wrist alti for altitude management, and have you considered adding an audible. Can you land consistently without biffing the camera? Once landed, don't let dubbing etc take precendence over packing, changing that closing loop and the rest of your gear checks. That said, modern equipment like Y2K's FF2 setup, a protrack and a wee lightweight camera can add to your enjoyment whilst minimising additional equipment/distraction based risks considerably.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BETO74 0 #21 April 14, 2004 This brings the question is about the licence you hold or the number of jumps I know people with 3.000 jumps and just the A license he does camera and is pretty good at ithttp://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
